NYC Can't Remove Fire Alarm Boxes, Judge Rules.

[RWC130 594]

NYC Can't Remove Fire Alarm Boxes, Judge Rules

Posted on 8/16/2011

From the Associated Press, via the Wall Street Journal:

A federal judge has ruled against a New York City plan to deactivate 15,000 fire alarm boxes, saying it would discriminate against the deaf and hearing-impaired.

The fire department last year said the move would save the city $6 million in the first fiscal year. It also said cell phones had substantially reduced the use of alarm boxes and claimed that 85 percent of box calls were false alarms.

The city had proposed an alternate plan using public pay phones combined with a tapping system that would allow deaf callers to signal whether they needed emergency services.

In his ruling on Monday, Judge Robert Sweet said public pay phones were unreliable.

http://www.fireengineering.com/index/blogs/fire-engineering_news.blogs.FireEngineering.fire-engineering-news.post987_4771858071898724017.html

[RWC130 594]

I read an article recently talking about the events of 9/11 and one of the things that worked unlike cell phones, landline phones, radios, etc was the Fire Alarm Boxes. Modern technology can and does FAIL!

Any FDNY Dispatchers on here able to verify this?

[JBE 328]

Yup. The boxes worked. Also during the blackout when the cell phone towers failed. The boxes worked. It is true that many alarms transmitted are false, but the one time it does come in and it's something, they prove their worth. I was working on both the 11th, and the day/night of the blackout, so I can definitely speak from experience on this. Bloomberg didn't learn the lesson of his predecessor. There is already a tapping system in place for both PD and FD on the boxes. Try finding a pay phone that works in the city.

Edited August 17, 2011 by JBE

[JohnnyOV 2]

So does this mean that every department that does not run a pull box system, is discriminating against the deaf and hearing impaired, or is everyone "grandfathered in?"

[LTNRFD 266]

So does this mean that every department that does not run a pull box system, is discriminating against the deaf and hearing impaired, or is everyone "grandfathered in?"

And will the pull boxes have to have 83 different languages on them so everyone can read and understand them......

[grumpyff 1,159]

Well if your on welfare you do get a free cell phone now.

Seriously in most neighborhoods there are no public phones on the street. This system is there, and for the most part is pretty reliable. I think that the ruling does not mean everyone needs to have system like this, but that the city's argument (Bloomberg) to save money was not true.

[x635 4,066]

This is the way I think about it. They wouldn't take pull stations out of buildings, or safety pulls at colleges, would they? Given the population density of NYC, and the amount of tourist and visitors who have no ideas where they are, these boxes are vital. Maybe thier could be some sort of techy thing they can do to prevent false alarms, like immediately take a photo of the person pulling the box, similar to what they do at ATM's.

[LTNRFD 266]

They wouldn't take pull stations out of buildings, or safety pulls at colleges, would they?

NYC isn't paying to maintain these systems, the building owner, by code, is mandated to. It's all about money.

The code says everyone else has to pay to maintain what the code mandates, but the municipalities don't have to follow the law. They all too often think they are above the law.

[27east 19]

How do they work? Dedicated circuit back to the borough CO?

[Newburgher 241]

Telegraph fire alarm boxes are still used in Newburgh. We get alot of false alarms, but also, a lot of legitimate fire and emergency calls off of them. All schools and colleges, and several commercial and high occupancy buildings are tied into a fire alarm box instead of a central monitoring agency. There is no delay for a response to these facilities, the companies are already in motion in most cases before the dispatcher can even announce the address. I understand the expense of a system such as this, but it does work, even when technology doesn't. And even in the age of cell phones in everyone's pocket, we have pulled up to some pretty spectacular fires, in broad daylight and a huge crowd, with not one phone call and only a single pull box activation.

[x129K 1,393]

Telegraph fire alarm boxes are still used in Newburgh. We get alot of false alarms, but also, a lot of legitimate fire and emergency calls off of them. All schools and colleges, and several commercial and high occupancy buildings are tied into a fire alarm box instead of a central monitoring agency. There is no delay for a response to these facilities, the companies are already in motion in most cases before the dispatcher can even announce the address. I understand the expense of a system such as this, but it does work, even when technology doesn't. And even in the age of cell phones in everyone's pocket, we have pulled up to some pretty spectacular fires, in broad daylight and a huge crowd, with not one phone call and only a single pull box activation.

This was also the case in Poughkeepsie and it is a DAMN SHAME THEY GOT RID OF THEM! I found a picture the other day other of dispatch with the big Gamewll reciever...man I miss that!

[Newburgher 241]

It is a shame. There are plenty of ways to cut spending, but something that is proven effective, and after 120 years no less, is not the place to make the cuts

[JBE 328]

How do they work? Dedicated circuit back to the borough CO?

OK Here we go with a little lesson on BARS (Box Alarm Reporting System, or Pull Boxes) and ERS(Emergency Reporting System) Boxes. WOO HOO!!! I LOVE THIS!!!!

Mechanical Circuits and ERS Loops come out of the CO and are interlaced through neighborhoods in the boroughs. Interlaced means that a box on one corner, say 1479 at Lex and 125, may not be on the same loop as 1477, at 125 and Lenox. That being said, if say there's a fire at 125 and 5th, and the box at Lenox doesn't work, one can run over to Lexington and be able to acitvate the box. The only draw back is maintenance is a little more complex. Feeders go out of the office and branch off into loops or circuits.

Pull boxes or mechanical boxes, as they are also called, are pretty simple. The box gets pulled and trips off a spring loaded wheel inside the box. Say the box is 6057, which is 117 Street and Liberty Avenue in

Queens. The wheel inside is notched and trips a switch as it turns. 6 notches, then 10 notches for 0, then 5, then 7. This repeats four to eight times. Back before everything got computerized, we could count it as it came in. The computer counters also did the counting and then interfaced with CAD to bring up an assignment screen for units. Queens and SI have the most pull boxes, while Manhattan and the Bronx are all ERS. The last pull box was yanked out of the Bronx in 2000. Brooklyn still has a few in Coney, Sea Gate, and I think up north in Bushwick/Greenpoint.

ERS, is actually a pretty nifty system.

As of right now, we are only allowed 32 boxes on a loop. Each box has a code number, from 0 to 31. Each code sends a specific tone along the loop to the ERS interface which hears the tone, translates it, and then makes the voice connection and activates CAD, all in about 4 seconds. Code 12 on Loop 46 in the Bronx, for the sake of argument, is Box 3538, at 238 and Bailey. So when someone activates that box, the tone goes out, the box rings, and boom you talk to an FAD. Each ERS box also has a phone number attached to it, so when it gets activated on the PD side, they have an ANI-ALI location (Automated Number Info and Automated Location Info). That was a recent addition in maybe the past three or four years. The higher codes in the loop, for some reason are usually attached to 8000 series boxes. 8000 Boxes, with the exception of certain locations in Queens are what we call Special Building Boxes. Public Schools, Hospitals, Highway locations, Bridges, Penn Station, certain public facilities. An Electrician can do a code change on the street, and I can do it on the computer so that when they test it, it comes in correctly. If a loop or circuit goes open, I can ground it out and theoretically keep at least part of the loop or circuit in service till I get an Electrician out to fix it. If not, I send a Company out to hang signs.

LT Mentioned 83 different languages. The City used visual aids to differentiate the need for PD or FD. Early international symbols, I suppose. A campfire, for some silly reason for FD, and a badge for PD. If someone activates the FD side, and we answer and they speak in their native tongue, the Box gets transmitted as if there is a structural fire. Audio problem?? One engine. Deaf Taps?? Structural fire.

As far as other cities getting grandfathered in, I don't know of any other places who tried to fight removal like my union, and the Electricians did.

Hope that helps. Are the boxes old, and do they malfunction?? Yup. Are there boxes out of service all over the place?? Yup. But, I would rather a few out of service than no boxes, a bunch of Electricians out of jobs, and that loss eventually translating to a Fire Alarm Dispatcher losing their job.