Westchester hooks college students with accelerated volunteer firefighter training course

[FF402 133]

Westchester hooks college students with accelerated volunteer firefighter training course

11:12 PM, Aug. 3, 2011 | LoHud.com

Written by Ben Rubin

VALHALLA — A small crew of volunteer firefighters crowded together in a tight cluster, with the front men spraying down a raging propane fire in a rusty shed.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110804/NEWS02/108040364/Westchester-hooks-college-students-accelerated-volunteer-firefighter-training-course?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Westchester County, New York

[x635 4,066]

To my knowledge, they've been doing this for several years now. Sounds like a dog and pony show for Astorinio off the backs of other people who have worked hard to make this happen. Maybe he should comment on increasing funding for more training.

Also, is the County Police Spokesperson now for DES as well, as noted in the article?

[CFFD117 19]

When I took firefighter 2 as a day class, a day class of firefighter 1 was just starting on our last day. It was a day class, and from what I understood from talking to one of they guys in my ff2 class (his son was taking the ff1 day class), was that it would take about 10 days from start to finish. 3 days of firefighter 2 was bad enough during the middle of the summer, 10 days must be brutal.

[Danger 160]

5 days a week of training to become a firefighter is a good start. Now add another 12 weeks.

[Bnechis 3,961]

When I took firefighter 2 as a day class, a day class of firefighter 1 was just starting on our last day. It was a day class, and from what I understood from talking to one of they guys in my ff2 class (his son was taking the ff1 day class), was that it would take about 10 days from start to finish. 3 days of firefighter 2 was bad enough during the middle of the summer, 10 days must be brutal.

10 Days for FFI & FFII...................... Thats the same certifications that the career accademy takes 60 Days to get (yes they get a few more certs.....but lets be real here). I wonder are they leaving something out, or does anyone think the career accademy is 50 Days too long?

[JohnnyOV 2]

10 Days for FFI & FFII...................... Thats the same certifications that the career accademy takes 60 Days to get (yes they get a few more certs.....but lets be real here). I wonder are they leaving something out, or does anyone think the career accademy is 50 Days too long?

Come on Capt, we're Volunteers. We might fight what everyone else fears, but that doesn't mean that we have to train like we do..... sighhhhh

[JBJ1202 27]

10 Days for FFI & FFII...................... Thats the same certifications that the career accademy takes 60 Days to get (yes they get a few more certs.....but lets be real here). I wonder are they leaving something out, or does anyone think the career accademy is 50 Days too long?

I believe he is saying the Firefighter I Daytime is a 10 day course. Firefighter II Daytime is a 3 day course. That would leave 47 days in the Career Academy for a few more certs...

JBJ

[LTNRFD 266]

10 Days for FFI & FFII...................... Thats the same certifications that the career accademy takes 60 Days to get (yes they get a few more certs.....but lets be real here). I wonder are they leaving something out, or does anyone think the career accademy is 50 Days too long?

Barry are you saying that it takes 60 days for a career firefighter to learn the exact same material that a volunteer firefighter can learn in 13 days??? Or are you comparing apples to oranges? You did say that the career side get a few more certs, but how many days are allotted in the career academy for the FF1 & FF2 ?

BTW 10 days for FF1 and 3 days for FF2 equals 13 days not 10 days. Must be that fuzzy math again.

[engine51 10]

they should consider the high school students as well.

[x635 4,066]

10 Days for FFI & FFII...................... Thats the same certifications that the career accademy takes 60 Days to get (yes they get a few more certs.....but lets be real here). I wonder are they leaving something out, or does anyone think the career accademy is 50 Days too long?

NYS Career Academy's requirments are way outdated. Firefighter has grown, and things like EMT should be added, considering that is the majority of work in a lot of departments.

A volunteer firefighter should be held to the same standards for certification, including CPAT. However, many volunteer firefighters don't have time to attend a full academy, and many volunteer firefighters continue their education throughout their volunteer firefighter service and drill more and more frequently then some career departments.

I'm not questioning the dedication of volunteers, but given the enviroment of Westchester, volunteers are becoming harder and harder to come by and will some day fade away. If my city had a volunteer fire department, I'd love to join (if I was medically able). However, my time with my family is much more important to me, and my household chores take up a lot of time. If the department was desperate, maybe I would help somehow. But my taxes pay for a career fire department, and one that's damn good. If the choice is getting to the scene quickly with a volunteer firefighter with basic training, over having not enough volunteers, then it's up to somebody to make sure these people get training that is accesible.

And please don't misread this, I do think that every firefighter should be held to the same standards. Just like a volunteer EMT and career EMT's initial certification training is exactly the same.

3 days of firefighter 2 was bad enough during the middle of the summer, 10 days must be brutal.

Fire doesn't care what time of year it is. We're on our 50th day of record breaking heat around 107 degrees and 90 at night. And the firefighters still train and still work-in fact they are really busy due to the exceptional drought we are also experiencing. The trick...enough manpower to cycle and proper rehab protocols.

[ptwatson 82]

THe way i look at it the volunteer firefighter can get the same amout of hours as a career academy. It is just broken up into classes that usualy run for a few weeks two night per week. I think that it is up to each department to make sure that all of its members get registered for these courses. We all know that problem is/was that the classes are filled almost instantaniously and signing up for them can be quite challenging. There is a quota for each dept as well. I think the state and the county needs to offer these course more then once a week. Also I think that there should be a downstate academy as well. It was great when some trainning was being done at Camp Smith it is a lot more local then Montour Falls. We should thank the career brothers for choosing this as there career and we should help the volunteers get as much training as they can get in the most convienent way possible.

[bigrig77 95]

10 Days for FFI & FFII...................... Thats the same certifications that the career academy takes 60 Days to get (yes they get a few more certs.....but lets be real here). I wonder are they leaving something out, or does anyone think the career academy is 50 Days too long?

I think we all know that it is two different classes. The academy is a more thorough teaching of the info. The FF1 and FF2 are more watered down versions that are for getting vols feet wet for what is to come. After they pass the FF's they can take all the other classes that are required for Career Level service. I think it is great that kids are taking these classes. I know that it is getting harder and harder to keep members in these Vol departments. People are to busy working to pay the bills or they get hired and then they can do it for real as a living.

I think that the current class length is fine although they should add EMT-Basic to the course load. First responder is good but at most places you work, 90% of your runs are EMS.

[bigrig77 95]

Let me clarify that it is not the instructors who are watering down the info. The instructors are actually all some of the best i have ever been trained by and worked with, all with a vast knowledge of the fire service. I meant from the state curriculum stand point. The amount of info and having it reenforced over the entire career academy is what sets it apart from the FF1 and FF2 classes.

Also the career academy is much more structured with the falling in at the start of the day and at the end. (Raising the flag, saluting the white shirts, etc.)

[Remember585 815]

I have a few gripes with the way the system currently is, and I don't see it changing in the near future. Feel free to comment/agree/disagree with me.

Gripe #1: I would have no problem making the training the same for both. HOWEVER, since building inspections are not part of our requirements, those 63 hours could be scratched from the program. Also, since we have jobs and other responsibilities, allow us to complete the training over a period of time, say two years. Get the basics out of the way up front, then require the remainder to be completed within a certain time frame. That would better entice folks.

Gripe #2: I don't see Survival and/or FAST as required for either. This is a must.

Gripe #3: Some of these courses could be consolidated, since many classes harp on lessons learned in pre-requisite training. For example, EVOC and Pump Ops could be made into one course for less time, as could Firefighter I and II.

Gripe #4: I'm only lacking the building codes stuff and Wildland Firefighting training. BUT WHEN IS THIS EVER OFFERED TO ANY OF US? I'll never get into these programs locally, which isn't going to attract most of my fellow volunteer brothers.

Gripe #5: Include the CPAT into Firefighter I, this would weed out the guys who may pass, get their FF I cert and go back to their FD barely able to function on the fireground!

For those of you unaware of the state's certification process, in order for a volunteer firefighter to receive the NYS "Firefighter Certification", they must complete the following (first step is Recruit Firefighter II, followed by Recruit Firefighter I, than Firefighter). This "Firefighter Certification" is what the career men accomplish in their 450 hour academy.

Again... some of these courses are rare or never seen here in Westchester (or nearby) except when incorporated into the career academies.

Want piety for all of us? Convince the county to offer the same training to both sides of the fence. It's not like many of us aren't in favor of it!

Recruit II Certification

Firefighter I (87 Hours) OR

Basic Firefighter Training (42 Hours) & Intermediate Firefighter Training (18 Hours) OR

Firefighting Essentials (39 Hours), Fire Behavior / Arson Awareness (12 Hours) and Initial Fire Attack (18 Hours)

Plus Right To Know and Local Rules, Regulations and Laws (No given amount of time)

Recruit I Certification (Must be Recruit II certified)

Firefighter II (27 Hours) OR

Truck Company Operations or Ladder Company Operations (24 Hours)

Apparatus Operator - Pump or Pump Operator (24 Hours)*

Accident Victim Extrication Training (16 Hours)

Hazardous Materials First Responder Operations (16 Hours)**

Firefighter Certification (Must be Recruit I certified)

Inspection Practices of Existing Structures (21 Hours)***

Rescue Technician Basic or Rescue Operations (24 Hours)

Incident Command System (12 Hours)

Basic Wildland Firefighting (12 Hours)

First Aid & CPR

CPAT Exam

* - Prerequisite training is Apparatus Operator - EVOC (18 Hours)

** - Now included in Firefighter I program

*** - Two prerequisites Intro to Code Enforcement Practices (42 hours)

Edited August 6, 2011 by Remember585

[bigrig77 95]

Gripe #2: I don't see Survival and/or FAST as required for either. This is a must.

I think that survival is now part of FF1 or FF2. I know FAST is a separate class, although it should be in the curriculum. I think that they could stretch the class out over a year and teach all the career level stuff. So it would sort of be a Vol. academy. They get the same classes and they are not rushed through. They can all so offer the individual classes for guys who what to brush up on their skills.

Also the CPAT is a great idea.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I am not 100% sure whether or not Firefighter Survival is part of FF1 now. I know that when I took FF1 several years ago, some FF1 classes included Firefighter Survival at the end after the final live burn. Unfortunately, my FF1 class (which was the two week day course) did not include Firefighter Survival. I took Firefighter Survival as a separate course. IMHO, if Firefighter Survival has not been added to all FF1 classes already, it needs to be!

In general, I think that there needs to be more training done more frequently. I do not know much about how training works with career firefighters but I do know how it works with volunteer firefighters. In general, I see way too many volunteer firefighter that stop signing up for courses after they get the basics (FF1, FF2, Survival, etc). I know that there will always be excuses but in reality one course per month is not asking a lot. 2 nights a week for two weeks is doable by everyone no matter what your job is.

Not to go off topic but...I would really like to see more courses offered more frequently. AVET is one that comes to mind right away. It is great that the County is working to make it easier for college students to become firefighter, but making FF1 more easily accessible is not enough. I have found that when I am home from school for breaks or for summer, not many classes are offered. A lot of course are offered in the Fall right after students go to college and in the Spring right before students return from college. Hopefully this will change.

[Remember585 815]

I am not 100% sure whether or not Firefighter Survival is part of FF1 now. I know that when I took FF1 several years ago, some FF1 classes included Firefighter Survival at the end after the final live burn. Unfortunately, my FF1 class (which was the two week day course) did not include Firefighter Survival. I took Firefighter Survival as a separate course. IMHO, if Firefighter Survival has not been added to all FF1 classes already, it needs to be!

It's not actually part of the Firefighter I course yet. The bulletins we see with Firefighter I w/ Survival are technically two courses, but the Instructors lump the two together so the new firefighters are getting it. You are right, however, it should be part of the FFI program.

In general, I think that there needs to be more training done more frequently. I do not know much about how training works with career firefighters but I do know how it works with volunteer firefighters. In general, I see way too many volunteer firefighter that stop signing up for courses after they get the basics (FF1, FF2, Survival, etc). I know that there will always be excuses but in reality one course per month is not asking a lot. 2 nights a week for two weeks is doable by everyone no matter what your job is.

I used to be one of the guys jumping up and down saying that there's no excuse not to find time to take training, but there has to be some give. Guys work all kinds of schedules now, so flexibility has to be there. We used to run our drills and training classes strictly on Monday nights. But for guys that work Monday nights - they weren't making anything. We generally run one Monday evening drill open to all, another Monday drill for FAST, one weekend day drill and another middle of the week evening drill every month to have some flexibility. I just wish more people would take advantage of it, but I'll digress.

Not to go off topic but...I would really like to see more courses offered more frequently. AVET is one that comes to mind right away. It is great that the County is working to make it easier for college students to become firefighter, but making FF1 more easily accessible is not enough. I have found that when I am home from school for breaks or for summer, not many classes are offered. A lot of course are offered in the Fall right after students go to college and in the Spring right before students return from college. Hopefully this will change.

The AVET program is only offered from the OFPC, by a limited number of Instructors. I am more than confident that if this course was made more accessible to teach like Firefighter I, then we would see it in Westchester at least 5-6 times per year. I asked these questions myself, that's where I found out.

All of us in Westchester need to realize that even though it is sometimes difficult to get into a course or to find a course we are looking for offered from our training center - we still have the best and most used facility in the state as far as firefighter training goes.

[x635 4,066]

John- I love your concept and the way you presented it. That's what Westchester needs. The question is who is the person to implent such guidelines?

[firedude 985]

FF1 does include survival...

FireFighter I w/FFS

This is a 95 hour course

Description: Firefighter I introduces firefighting concepts, practices and techniques necessary for

success within the fire service. Based on the Firefighter Level I objectives from NFPA Standards

1001, this course develops knowledge, skills and abilities based on performance criteria for the

following topics: Fire department organization, firefighter safety, fire behavior, personal protective

equipment, self contained breathing apparatus, fire extinguishers, building searches, forcible entry,

ground ladders, ventilation, hose practices fire streams, and loss control. The course consists of

performance criteria in incident command, building construction, ropes/knots, rescue procedures,

forcible entry applications, ventilation practices, fire extinguisher applications, suppression of

structural fire, tactics, vehicle suppression, water supply, loss control, fire cause determination, fire

department communications, fire suppression systems, hazardous materials, weapons of mass

destruction, confined space safety and fire prevention practices.

Target audience: Entry-Level firefighter

Prerequisites: Prior to attending class, students must have The Firefighter’s Handbook – Essentials

of Firefighting and Emergency Response, New York Edition Thompson Delmar Learning book.

According to WCDES 11-75

FireFighter II-Daytime

This is a 27 hour course being held on the following dates:

August 1, 2, 3, 4 from 09:00 to 16:00 w/ 1 Hour Lunch

August 5 from 09:00 to 12:00

Description: NYS Firefighter-II is designed to be a comprehensive course that completely

prepares firefighters to respond to emergencies as a team leader. The course also

accomplishes the objective of NFPA 1001 and trains the Firefighter II as a team leader. Will

train the Firefighter I to work and operate without direct supervision.

Firefighter II consists of performance criteria in: incident command implications, building

materials and collapse, special rescue, hydrant flow ands operability, hose tools, foam

operations, flammable liquid/gases, detection, alarm systems, fire cause and origin, fire

department communications, pre fire planning, special situations, strategy and tactics.

Target audience: Interior structural firefighters and/or firefighters who may serve as team

or group leaders

Prerequisites: Completion of Firefighter-I or equivalent.

According to WCDES Training Bulletin 11-85

[PFDRes47cue 653]

FF1 does include survival...

According to WCDES 11-75

According to WCDES Training Bulletin 11-85

That bulletin is just for that specific class. Yes, you are right, that class is a combo class of FF1 and FF Survival. Hopefully one day, all FF1 classes will include FF Survival. IMHO these two classes a re definite must for all firefighters.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I used to be one of the guys jumping up and down saying that there's no excuse not to find time to take training, but there has to be some give. Guys work all kinds of schedules now, so flexibility has to be there. We used to run our drills and training classes strictly on Monday nights. But for guys that work Monday nights - they weren't making anything. We generally run one Monday evening drill open to all, another Monday drill for FAST, one weekend day drill and another middle of the week evening drill every month to have some flexibility. I just wish more people would take advantage of it, but I'll digress.

All of us in Westchester need to realize that even though it is sometimes difficult to get into a course or to find a course we are looking for offered from our training center - we still have the best and most used facility in the state as far as firefighter training goes.

That seems like an excellent way for the department to show flexibility and understanding of peoples different work schedules. With how low most fire departments are in terms of membership numbers, department can not afford to lose members simply because they are working on the typical drill/training night. The method of training that you described would work best with a one company department. For departments that have multiple companies, and hold company drills every month and not necessarily department drills, this could be a little harder to work out, but I am sure that it is worth the effort to attempt to do. This type of flexibility is a must now-a-days.

[FD7807 59]

I have a few gripes with the way the system currently is, and I don't see it changing in the near future. Feel free to comment/agree/disagree with me.

Gripe #1: I would have no problem making the training the same for both. HOWEVER, since building inspections are not part of our requirements, those 63 hours could be scratched from the program. Also, since we have jobs and other responsibilities, allow us to complete the training over a period of time, say two years. Get the basics out of the way up front, then require the remainder to be completed within a certain time frame. That would better entice folks.

Gripe #2: I don't see Survival and/or FAST as required for either. This is a must.

Gripe #3: Some of these courses could be consolidated, since many classes harp on lessons learned in pre-requisite training. For example, EVOC and Pump Ops could be made into one course for less time, as could Firefighter I and II.

Gripe #4: I'm only lacking the building codes stuff and Wildland Firefighting training. BUT WHEN IS THIS EVER OFFERED TO ANY OF US? I'll never get into these programs locally, which isn't going to attract most of my fellow volunteer brothers.

Gripe #5: Include the CPAT into Firefighter I, this would weed out the guys who may pass, get their FF I cert and go back to their FD barely able to function on the fireground!

For those of you unaware of the state's certification process, in order for a volunteer firefighter to receive the NYS "Firefighter Certification", they must complete the following (first step is Recruit Firefighter II, followed by Recruit Firefighter I, than Firefighter). This "Firefighter Certification" is what the career men accomplish in their 450 hour academy.

Again... some of these courses are rare or never seen here in Westchester (or nearby) except when incorporated into the career academies.

Want piety for all of us? Convince the county to offer the same training to both sides of the fence. It's not like many of us aren't in favor of it!

Recruit II Certification

Firefighter I (87 Hours) OR

Basic Firefighter Training (42 Hours) & Intermediate Firefighter Training (18 Hours) OR

Firefighting Essentials (39 Hours), Fire Behavior / Arson Awareness (12 Hours) and Initial Fire Attack (18 Hours)

Plus Right To Know and Local Rules, Regulations and Laws (No given amount of time)

Recruit I Certification (Must be Recruit II certified)

Firefighter II (27 Hours) OR

Truck Company Operations or Ladder Company Operations (24 Hours)

Apparatus Operator - Pump or Pump Operator (24 Hours)*

Accident Victim Extrication Training (16 Hours)

Hazardous Materials First Responder Operations (16 Hours)**

Firefighter Certification (Must be Recruit I certified)

Inspection Practices of Existing Structures (21 Hours)***

Rescue Technician Basic or Rescue Operations (24 Hours)

Incident Command System (12 Hours)

Basic Wildland Firefighting (12 Hours)

First Aid & CPR

CPAT Exam

* - Prerequisite training is Apparatus Operator - EVOC (18 Hours)

** - Now included in Firefighter I program

*** - Two prerequisites Intro to Code Enforcement Practices (42 hours)

So very true on all points: FAST is a must and should be included. Survuval should be part of firefighter 1 curriculum to start with (i know it is now included in the class but some FD's dont require members to attend that and also it is not included 100 % of the time) make it part of the initial coursework because if you cant save yourself how can you save someone else eefectively.

[FD7807 59]

also what i am about to say will be unpopular with many but i really do not care. this pertains to volunteer departments of which i belong to one.Since nYS and WC have many many FD's and EMS agencies to please it is the onus of these towns and villages to bridge the gap on training needed and not wait for 60 control to pick up the pieces. The AHJ (Authority having jrusidiction) IE the town or village has every right to book accredited standardized training (of which there area zillion companies out there who will come and do it) and as long as the training hours and curriculum covered is logged and stored then their members are trained. This training has to be considered more important then the $3000 LED light bars and otherfrivilous items that are bought with taxpayer money. I am painting the taget on my back as we speak so feel free to fire back those who do not agree but ask yourselves this: how can you disagree with training whether it be in house or at valhalla ?

[Car2342 5]

This is a good start but it really didn't help much. There were 23 spots in the class and 17 Departments had students enrolled. We had one student in but had others that needed the class who begin college in September. Hopefully next year they will be able to accommodate more students.

[Bnechis 3,961]

also what i am about to say will be unpopular with many but i really do not care. this pertains to volunteer departments of which i belong to one.Since nYS and WC have many many FD's and EMS agencies to please it is the onus of these towns and villages to bridge the gap on training needed and not wait for 60 control to pick up the pieces. The AHJ (Authority having jrusidiction) IE the town or village has every right to book accredited standardized training (of which there area zillion companies out there who will come and do it) and as long as the training hours and curriculum covered is logged and stored then their members are trained. This training has to be considered more important then the $3000 LED light bars and otherfrivilous items that are bought with taxpayer money. I am painting the taget on my back as we speak so feel free to fire back those who do not agree but ask yourselves this: how can you disagree with training whether it be in house or at valhalla ?

Bravo. Now lets take it one step farther. NYS Labor Law is crystal clear on this; The employer is responsable for providing and certifying all employees in any and all applicable OSHA training requirements. The courts have held that volunteer fd's are "employeers" and volunteer ff's are "employees". The training required is listed in the following standards:

Fire Brigade

Respiratory Protection

PPE

Confined Space

Hazmat

Traffic Safety

Bloodborne Pathogens

Control of hazardous Energy

Thats a very large % of Firefighter training.

Technically that means that unless you work for OFPC or Westchester County, they can not "certify" you. Only your agency can do that. And for your agency to certified you they need to activly participate in your training.

As an example if you take OFPC Hazmat ops and bring the certificate back to your dept. unless they provide another 2-6 hours of in house training and testing you do not meet the requirements under NYS Law to be certified and the law says you can not respond to any calls without this.

[firecapt32 282]

Certified training and qualificiations are two of the most important things a fire department can require. Although I am not a fan of the two week firefighter one course, it does provide a vehicle to let students get the training completed in a shorter period of time.

As a Fire Instructor I do include survival in any firefighter one class that I am the lead. FAST is a course that helps firefighters help firefighters and should be taken by well seasoned fire personnel not by firefighters with less the a few years under their belts get some time on the nozzle or on the ladderfirst.It will help you undrstand the importance of FAST.

The AHJ has the right to set the standards and they should, they should also supplpy the vehicle to meet these standards. How many departments pay milage to the firefighters that attend training either at WCDES or NYS Fire Academy? or a meal allowence.

Department should have a real training budget and Chiefs that know how to administer. Todays Fire chief is way more then getting the wet stuff on the red stuff. It administration/human resourses/training/osha/hazmat/public relations /budget process/recruitment-- just to name a few.

Todays modern Fire Department is a miramid of things and they shuood be reflected in the training and qualifications of the firefighters and officers.

just my thoughs

[FD7807 59]

all excellent well thought out points Firecapt 32

Certified training and qualificiations are two of the most important things a fire department can require. Although I am not a fan of the two week firefighter one course, it does provide a vehicle to let students get the training completed in a shorter period of time.

As a Fire Instructor I do include survival in any firefighter one class that I am the lead. FAST is a course that helps firefighters help firefighters and should be taken by well seasoned fire personnel not by firefighters with less the a few years under their belts get some time on the nozzle or on the ladderfirst.It will help you undrstand the importance of FAST.

The AHJ has the right to set the standards and they should, they should also supplpy the vehicle to meet these standards. How many departments pay milage to the firefighters that attend training either at WCDES or NYS Fire Academy? or a meal allowence.

Department should have a real training budget and Chiefs that know how to administer. Todays Fire chief is way more then getting the wet stuff on the red stuff. It administration/human resourses/training/osha/hazmat/public relations /budget process/recruitment-- just to name a few.

Todays modern Fire Department is a miramid of things and they shuood be reflected in the training and qualifications of the firefighters and officers.

just my thoughs

[firecapt32 282]

A few more thoughts--- a good well rounded fire department certified fire training program for a department will establish well rounded, educated firefighters. They in turn will make well educated productive fire officers and that produces the fire chief with certifications and education.

Training--certification--fire education make a good fire officer or chief not "its our turn" or popularity.

There I go thinking again

[Guest alsfirefighter]

This is a good start but it really didn't help much. There were 23 spots in the class and 17 Departments had students enrolled. We had one student in but had others that needed the class who begin college in September. Hopefully next year they will be able to accommodate more students.

Good start? DES has offered daytime courses for several years during the summer. Also the state dictates student numbers not DES and the state granted westchestergov 5 more for FF 1 based on CFI staffing we have. Another option is for combo depts. To utilize their MTO's and MFI's to do in house courses.