Should Firefighters Have College Degrees?

[antiquefirelt 994]

When you are tasked with critical thinking to find solutions to literally any problem that arrises, and being responsible for the lives of your crew, I think it's reasonable to have a degree that shows you can manage time, problem solve, learn, and memorize.

While I'd agree that college coursework can help in these areas, the individual really makes the difference. I think we probably all know some people with degrees that cannot think their way out of a room with an open door, while knowing others without degrees who could figure the way out of a room without doors. Those attributes can be tested for thus why exclude applicants from trying to promote? If the college degree provides others with better testing skills and critical thinking they should do better, right?

Have we not seen what happens when we fail to find the right balance between education and actual skills? When a better educated officer has proven themselves to be "battle tested" the confidence of both their superiors and subordinates is realized. Under-educated officers may fail to attain the proper confidence of their bosses, while under experienced officers will have a more difficult time gaining the confidence of those under them. Either can be a manager, to be a leader often takes both.

As a part of raising the collective bar and being recognized as a profession vs. a job, I can see the degree being a useful thing, but in the end is it because we want people to see us as better on paper or wanting to actually be better?

[mstrang1 213]

alot of states do not require a college degree for some of there applicants. i have applied for several out of state tests and the state of Michigan does not require applicants to have a college diploma. so no i dont think that firefighters should have a college diploma

So because Michigan does not require a college degree to apply, you feel that you should have one? Just because a state has certain requirements, or lack thereof, does not make it right. On my first day in the CT State Fire Academy, they told us, "the state of CT requires 10 weeks (at the time) of training to be a firefighter and 16 weeks of training to be a licensed hair stylist." Let that sink in for a second, and then tell me states have their priorities set. Also, while I am not a moderator on the board, please use spell check and check for grammar. Proper grammar and spelling help credibility immensely. Bad grammar and spelling in forums and texts and emails seep into everyday life and soon enough you are making mistakes on job applications.

[AJU 39]

We're getting into the territory of probability again. Just because there are examples of exceptions to the rule doesn't negate the rule.

The FDNY has determined that there is a higher probability of the characteristics and attributes they want in their officers present in firefighters that have completed a college education. Does this mean they are all qualified for the position? No, but it certainly makes the assessment and evaluation process much easier. It's not the only qualification by a long shot, but the fact that it is one simplifies the process and attempts to ensure a certain level of quality.

As difficult as it may be to accept this concept, the fact is that the fire industry is a highly romanticized customer service business. The larger the business the more it must rely on standard practices and qualifications to maintain a certain level of quality in its resources. This is simply because the larger the business gets the more decentralized things like hiring and personnel management become. A small department in Westchester with a career department can probably stand to weigh each candidate for an officer position based on their individual merits (and without regard to education), but should Westchester consolidate this practice may not be possible because of the need to ensure all officers county-wide meet certain minimum standards.

[M' Ave 1,466]

I like FDNY's policy of requiring a degree for officers. When you are tasked with critical thinking to find solutions to literally any problem that arrises, and being responsible for the lives of your crew, I think it's reasonable to have a degree that shows you can manage time, problem solve, learn, and memorize. For an entry level firefighter who is being told what to do for the most part, I don't think it should be a requirement.

There have been some really terrific posts here so far. I'm just picking this one as a jumping off point for my opinion. The FDNY's policy has been eroded over the years by lazy individuals whining about not obtaining the job on their own merit. Do you need a BA/BS to be a good firefighter? Nope, not at all. I know many terrific firemen, and know of many before my time who they still tell stories about, who did not have a degree. There are many tradesmen who have skills and knowledge that lends itself to our craft and they did not go the college route.

That being said, the overwhelming majority of my co-workers have a 4 year degree. I think we're a better department for it. To quote someone who posted before me, "it teaches you how to learn" and that's an invaluable quality. The experience of going to college teaches you how to think objectively and analytically. Some people may have that trait innately, but a degree serves as an affirmation of that ability. In addition, attending college shows effort and drive. You actually had to put in the time and effort to achieve that Associates or Bachelors degree and guess what.....it's a lot of work. Putting in that time and effort shows that you MIGHT at the very least have the drive to be a self starter and a motivated employee. Firemen are often in a position of having to think and make decisions independently and they're better off with a deeper well of experience to draw from.

With today's increases in the diversity of our workload, our interaction with the public has increased as well. We don't just sit behind closed doors until we head into a fire and then go home. We interact intimately with the public on EMS runs, fire prevention initiatives, class visits and fire inspections to name a few. In every example, education can do nothing but help.

Having a college degree doesn't make you a smart individual and they're are plenty of bright articulate people who don't have a formal higher education. However, with a civil service hiring process and it's simplicity, pre-requisites do nothing but help to distinguish a more qualified candidate. Even if obtaining some degree serves only to show that someone put in the extra effort.

The FDNY's current hiring standards are pathetic. 15 college credits (one silly semester) or 6 months of work experience. That's right, go flip burgers for 6 months, you're in! It's a tragedy to lower standards and to do it simply to increase the number of minority members is embarrassing to every member of a minority group who puts in the effort and it's a serious dis-service to the people of New York who deserve the best. Historically, the acceptance rate to the FDNY is between 8 and 10%. That's pretty low. If you have tens of thousands of people testing for, at most, a couple of thousand positions......you should be able to demand very high standards. They're obviously not having any trouble filling positions. The only people who I've heard complain about standards are those who haven't put in the time, effort, care or thought to take the many free assistance tools available to them.