Hudson River boaters plan protest, say marine units overdo safety checks

[abaduck 123]

Crime Cop, I certainly didn't use the word 'harassment' because it isn't; that means something quite different. It certainly shouldn't be used in respect of this situation. Harassment is calculated and malicious.

This is well-intentioned, but on the evidence I've heard, excessive. We had a previous poster, RayRider, a career LT so probably a decent guy not prone to whining, cite multiple instances of what they consider excessive stops by LE - which, while individually friendly and well intentioned and not harassment, cumulatively have the effect of spoiling a day out sufficiently the good LT doesn't do it any more.

With respect I think it's not good enough for you to shrug and say it is what it is, if you don't like it go someplace else.

I think part of the problem is simply numbers. If you tried to stop and inspect, say, 1 in 10 road users on the I-95, you would have a traffic screwup God himself couldn't untangle. The much lower density of traffic on the river makes much more frequent stops - perhaps excessively frequent from the point of view of the individual river user - possible.

I'm not trying to be negative or anti-cop or anti-enforcement here, I've agreed enforcement is necessary. But if it's happening to guys who have done nothing wrong, with no probable cause, more than once a day... we need more joined-up thinking somewhere. Be constructive :-)

Mike

Edited July 18, 2011 by abaduck

[res6cue 67]

Save the local FD vessels for fires and rescue calls. Service calls are getting 3,4, 5 or more agencies now which is an enormous waste.

I don't understand why every call on the Hudson River requires the response of three fire department boats, WCPD, usually Rockland Sheriffs and/or FD boats from Rockland - we're sending more stuff then is needed the majority of the time.

How many Westchester depts have legitimate dive-rescue teams to go along with their marine units, like Piermont does? I'm genuinely curious, I have no idea.

[The Axe 8]

Good to know - how does one contact them?

Boat U.S. 800 391 4869

[JohnnyOV 2]

Sea Tow does cover the river, but as stated before they sometimes come in a "boat in distress" call and you dont know what you have. SeaTow comes from Haverstraw so a PD boat maybe a little closer and be able to keep a boat off the rocks until they get there. PD boats generally wont tow a boat unless its in the channel, then its towed to safety and they drop anchor until SeaTow arrives.

I thought SeaTow was out of Cold Spring, and their next closest location was NewRo/Sound Shore

[JohnnyOV 2]

How many Westchester depts have legitimate dive-rescue teams to go along with their marine units, like Piermont does? I'm genuinely curious, I have no idea.

Yorktown has a full dive rescue/recovery team, swift water rescue team, floods and moving water team, Ice rescue and Ice Diving team, trained to the levels of NFPA through Dive Rescue International. Totally self contained in Rescue 55, they trailer 2 boats, Marine 55 and Marine 56. Members undergo constant training, and in water evolutions as well.

YHFD's dive team is available to show our capabilities to your department. Currently we have been listed as automatic aid for a few departments in the northern Westchester area when a water call comes in. We are also training with numerous departments to better their understanding of how they can assist us once our operation begins. If you would like to set up a meeting to discuss our operations and view our equipment and team, please PM and I will forward you to our dive Capt. and Lt.

Edited July 19, 2011 by JohnnyOV

[rayrider 94]

Maybe you just look like a trouble maker

Or knew I was friends with you. LOL.

[fjp326 42]

I thought SeaTow was out of Cold Spring, and their next closest location was NewRo/Sound Shore

Sea Tow Central Hudson is out of Haverstraw Marina.

[helicopper 1,050]

Why does every PD need to be out there doing these checks? How about a link to the Poughkeepsie Journal article about the alcohol involved boat accident in Tivoli that killed 4 people? Putting 2 marine units in the water to cover an area of the Hudson River from the New York City line up to the Putnam County line, IMHO, is stretching the marine resources too thin. Why does every PD need to get involved? Perhaps because the County PD doesn't have the manpower and/or equipment to staff more then what they already have, I don't know as I do not work for them and am not intimately familiar with the money they have budgeted and allocated for their marine unit. Or maybe it's simply because every PD along the River wants "their piece of the pie". What I do know is that every summer we read about the various marine units, FD and PD alike, carrying out legitimate rescues on the Hudson, and that right there is what makes the strong presence on the River worth it to me. I know if I were bobbing in the middle of the River, I'd rather have 3 boats from neighboring jurisdictions coming to pluck me out rather then wait for 1 coming from miles away. How would I fix it? I don't know, I guess that depends if a problem truly exists?

The "rescue" issues are one thing and I'm not speaking to that because "rescues" do not have jurisdictional boundaries. I respectfully disagree that every jurisdiction needs a boat (or boats) of their own so they can respond on the off chance that something happens in their neighborhood.

However, on the law enforcement side there is still the statutory "geographical area of employment" (GAoE) issue and some would opine that this is forgotten on the water. Local police departments may have statutory limits restricting their GAoE so they can't just go out and write tickets or conduct enforcement details on the water. It may be the water line, it may some distance off shore, it may be shore.

Before jumping into the water with both feet, local jurisdictions should make sure that their PD has the authority to be police on the water.

[res6cue 67]

Yorktown has a full dive rescue/recovery team, swift water rescue team, floods and moving water team, Ice rescue and Ice Diving team, trained to the levels of NFPA through Dive Rescue International. Totally self contained in Rescue 55, they trailer 2 boats, Marine 55 and Marine 56. Members undergo constant training, and in water evolutions as well.

YHFD's dive team is available to show our capabilities to your department. Currently we have been listed as automatic aid for a few departments in the northern Westchester area when a water call comes in. We are also training with numerous departments to better their understanding of how they can assist us once our operation begins. If you would like to set up a meeting to discuss our operations and view our equipment and team, please PM and I will forward you to our dive Capt. and Lt.

Thanks for the reply, but I probably should've been more specific with my question.

What I really mean to ask was, how many depts in Westchester bordering the Hudson River have certified divers that go out with their marine units for incidents on the river? I guess I'm particularly interested in depts closest to the TZ Bridge. The Rockland County Fire Directory "Redbook" lists Irvington and Verplanck as the only Westchester river depts to have divers. Is that accurate, and are they fully certified?

Edited July 20, 2011 by res6cue

[FFEMT150 214]

I can't help but scratch my head as I ponder an observation... There are several police departments partolling the hudson river doing safety checks and enforcement, yet as I cruse on Lake Mahopac I don't think I have seen a single police officer on the water... Hmmmmmmmm... Does anyone know if there is a PCSO or CPD patrol boat on the lake?

[16fire5 693]

I can't help but scratch my head as I ponder an observation... There are several police departments partolling the hudson river doing safety checks and enforcement, yet as I cruse on Lake Mahopac I don't think I have seen a single police officer on the water... Hmmmmmmmm... Does anyone know if there is a PCSO or CPD patrol boat on the lake?

PCSO performed the investigation of a fatal boating accident that occured in Orange County a few years back. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

[JJB531 652]

I can't help but scratch my head as I ponder an observation... There are several police departments partolling the hudson river doing safety checks and enforcement, yet as I cruse on Lake Mahopac I don't think I have seen a single police officer on the water... Hmmmmmmmm... Does anyone know if there is a PCSO or CPD patrol boat on the lake?

PCSO patrols the Hudson River and Lake Oscawana. Carmel PD patrols Lake Mahopac. If you're really that curious, both departments websites offer detailed information on their respective marine units, you just have to take the time to look it up.

[JJB531 652]

PCSO performed the investigation of a fatal boating accident that occured in Orange County a few years back. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

The accident was from 2008. Every news outlet reported that the accident occurred in Garrison, which is in Putnam County. 2 victims were removed on the Putnam County side, 2 on the Orange County side, and the boat was grounded on the Orange County side. Initial 911 calls went to Putnam County 911. Appears it was deemed the accident initiated on the Putnam side in PCSO jurisdiction.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6293347

[FFEMT150 214]

PCSO patrols the Hudson River and Lake Oscawana. Carmel PD patrols Lake Mahopac. If you're really that curious, both departments websites offer detailed information on their respective marine units, you just have to take the time to look it up.

Thanks. Knew about the river patrols but haven't ever seen a PD on Lake Mahopac. Thanks for the info.

[BFD1054 1,552]

Thanks for the reply, but I probably should've been more specific with my question.

What I really mean to ask was, how many depts in Westchester bordering the Hudson River have certified divers that go out with their marine units for incidents on the river? I guess I'm particularly interested in depts closest to the TZ Bridge. The Rockland County Fire Directory "Redbook" lists Irvington and Verplanck as the only Westchester river depts to have divers. Is that accurate, and are they fully certified?

res6cue...To my knowledge, the Verplanck FD Dive Team no longer exists and hasnt in several years. Its a shame because they were a good asset, especially being right on the river.

A few years back there was talk of starting a Tri-Village Dive Team, but it never happened.

[MoFire390 118]

res6cue...To my knowledge, the Verplanck FD Dive Team no longer exists and hasnt in several years. Its a shame because they were a good asset, especially being right on the river.

A few years back there was talk of starting a Tri-Village Dive Team, but it never happened.

verplanck does have a few divers that are still active. the head diver no longer lives in the area. and yes they are certified.

[irishfire2491 24]

verplanck does have a few divers that are still active. the head diver no longer lives in the area. and yes they are certified.

Verplanck does not supply the equipment for divers nor have trained in diving in sometime. Verplanck used 3 boats 1 in the hudson river at all times Spring summer and fall 2 on trailers and have many assets to the river lakes and mutual aid area however the dive team does not exist anymore.

[JohnnyOV 2]

COLD SPRING — Sen. Charles Schumer is calling on the U.S. Coast Guard to coordinate enforcement activities among various police agencies that patrol the Hudson River after an outcry from boaters that they're being stopped too often for inspections by different agencies.http://www.lohud.com/article/20110812/NEWS01/108120333/Schumer-wants-Coast-Guard-coordinate-Hudson-River-patrols-after-boaters-complain?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage

[Engine 80 16]

way to much police boats out there just trying to show numbers,wcpd does great job as well as rockland pd ,and all local fd,s work well together and all have a job to do ,but need to under stand each others job when dispachted to a call,i ben on fd calls by sleepyhollow and have had ypd on scene ,thats a bit out of the way ,and in winter months its left up to fd to respond to calls with the help of wcpd ,fd.s have a responce plan from 1 to 3 boat s dispachted most of time you get the mrong location people panic and dont no the exact location there at so this helps with the more boats we have its faster and safer its big and some times dark out there and it works out good .its like a needle in a haystack.60 control sent ossining pd to a jumper down one night.its all about responce time to save a life or some one in danger and in need of medical asst,thats the job we do ,its not a party invite;

[Just a guy 493]

way to much police boats out there just trying to show numbers,wcpd does great job as well as rockland pd ,and all local fd,s work well together and all have a job to do ,but need to under stand each others job when dispachted to a call,i ben on fd calls by sleepyhollow and have had ypd on scene ,thats a bit out of the way ,and in winter months its left up to fd to respond to calls with the help of wcpd ,fd.s have a responce plan from 1 to 3 boat s dispachted most of time you get the mrong location people panic and dont no the exact location there at so this helps with the more boats we have its faster and safer its big and some times dark out there and it works out good .its like a needle in a haystack.60 control sent ossining pd to a jumper down one night.its all about responce time to save a life or some one in danger and in need of medical asst,thats the job we do ,its not a party invite;

The Yonkers Police Marine Unit gets called by multiple agenices to assist as far south as the GWB and as far north as well past the TZB, this includes doing security checks of both bridges. Yonkers gets requested by the NYPD if there are no NYPD launches in the hudson in northern manhattan and the bronx. Our boat gets requested by the coast guard constantly, by 60 control, county PD, etc... our boat is always manned and on the river so our guys can get to things quick. I don't understand most of your post, you seem to say that yonkers showing up near sleepy hollow was a bit out of the way but then you go on to say that the more boats you have, the safer and faster it is, so i'm not seeing the point ?

[Engine 80 16]

The Yonkers Police Marine Unit gets called by multiple agenices to assist as far south as the GWB and as far north as well past the TZB, this includes doing security checks of both bridges. Yonkers gets requested by the NYPD if there are no NYPD launches in the hudson in northern manhattan and the bronx. Our boat gets requested by the coast guard constantly, by 60 control, county PD, etc... our boat is always manned and on the river so our guys can get to things quick. I don't understand most of your post, you seem to say that yonkers showing up near sleepy hollow was a bit out of the way but then you go on to say that the more boats you have, the safer and faster it is, so i'm not seeing the point ?

its way out of ypd jurisdiction ,why would yonkers cover the tee zee bridge when you have wcpd state pd and rockland county police and local fd,s this is the issues boaters are having all these police angencys with boats going and potroling out side ther areas,

[Just a guy 493]

its way out of ypd jurisdiction ,why would yonkers cover the tee zee bridge when you have wcpd state pd and rockland county police and local fd,s this is the issues boaters are having all these police angencys with boats going and potroling out side ther areas,

The decisions of what patrol boats cover where aren't made by the public, they are made in collaboration with all of the agencies involved, including homeland security.

Yonkers does security checks on the bridge and assists the other PD's because contrary to what all of the complaining masses might think, all these jurisdictions don't have boats in the area all the time, the yonkers boat is always ready and close to respond. The state PD has a huge area to cover as does the county.

The issue that a handful of boaters have is that they don't want to be stopped for safety checks, not who is patrolling outside of their jurisdiction, i'm not really sure where you are getting your information but it's not correct.

Again you contradict your previous post of the more boats the better... I still just don't get your point.

The police boats are always manned and are on the river ready to go so they are able to get to scenes quicker in many cases than the local volunteer FD's.

[JCESU 20]

I'm merely playing Devils Advocate here, but...

2) I don't understand why an Automatic Fire Alarm requires the response of 3 Engines, a Ladder, a Rescue, 3 Chiefs Cars, and 12 POV's? I would assume the same reason why an emergency call on the Hudson invokes a response from several agencies.

You read my mind....

[JCESU 20]

SEATOW.... and just strictly as a informative question, why is the Hudson river, the only area in the country that is not covered by them, and the only area I know of that sends FD and PD units out for non-emergency type recoveries (stalled engines, mechanical problems etc)?

SeaTow will usually respond out of the Highlands in NJ for a handsome fee and an extended response time. Because of the volume of commercial vessels/pleasure craft it's important to get a marine unit out to render assistance asap to make an assesment before it very quickly becomes an emergency.

[Engine 80 16]

The decisions of what patrol boats cover where aren't made by the public, they are made in collaboration with all of the agencies involved, including homeland security.

Yonkers does security checks on the bridge and assists the other PD's because contrary to what all of the complaining masses might think, all these jurisdictions don't have boats in the area all the time, the yonkers boat is always ready and close to respond. The state PD has a huge area to cover as does the county.

The issue that a handful of boaters have is that they don't want to be stopped for safety checks, not who is patrolling outside of their jurisdiction, i'm not really sure where you are getting your information but it's not correct.

Again you contradict your previous post of the more boats the better... I still just don't get your point.

The police boats are always manned and are on the river ready to go so they are able to get to scenes quicker in many cases than the local volunteer FD's.

ah not true ,dont egree on what boats are manned and times days ,nights,winter months,i have ben with fd marine unit atleast 24 yrs lets not go there.it is what it is ,doe.s ypd potrole rt 87 or the sawmill pkwy or crosscounty pkwy,? understanding jurisdictions is a must .assisting other pd or fd.s,yes i understand this happens alot of times.

[x129K 1,393]

understanding jurisdictions is a must .

So is basic english and punctuation. You may very well have a valid point, but it is impossible to decypher what you are saying, Sir.

[helicopper 1,050]

ah not true ,dont egree on what boats are manned and times days ,nights,winter months,i have ben with fd marine unit atleast 24 yrs lets not go there.it is what it is ,doe.s ypd potrole rt 87 or the sawmill pkwy or crosscounty pkwy,? understanding jurisdictions is a must .assisting other pd or fd.s,yes i understand this happens alot of times.

First of all, this thread is not about rescue calls. It is about law enforcement on the river so the discussion about responses to jumpers, vessels in distress, and/or other waterborne emergencies is way off base.

There are no jurisdictional issues with rescue calls so if Yonkers is at the Tappan Zee Bridge or Rockland is at the Tarrytown marina, it is not a jurisdictional matter. As has been stated, rescue calls require a prompt and effective response. It is no different than the FD sending three different boats on the same call. It's about getting help to the person who requires it.

If we can get back to the topic of enforcement on the river that would be appreciated.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

With all of the new electric tools the PD has today ( Plate readers, laptops in cars ) someone should invent something similiar to the plate readers, so a PD unit can scan markings on a boat and be able to see when it was last inspected for a safety check. If it was performed say within the last 2 months, then the PD patrol unit can leave them be, unless there was cause for them to be stopped...

I respect the job these PD units are trying to do, but I can also see the point of the boaters... there should be a level playing field here.

[helicopper 1,050]

With all of the new electric tools the PD has today ( Plate readers, laptops in cars ) someone should invent something similiar to the plate readers, so a PD unit can scan markings on a boat and be able to see when it was last inspected for a safety check. If it was performed say within the last 2 months, then the PD patrol unit can leave them be, unless there was cause for them to be stopped...

I respect the job these PD units are trying to do, but I can also see the point of the boaters... there should be a level playing field here.

I agree that getting stopped four times in one trip up the river is problematic but the same thing could happen on the highway too.

Interesting point about using technology for the safety inspections but we're not talking about a mechanical inspection as with a vehicle, are we? Let's say that my boat is inspected while being operated by me, a properly trained and licensed boater, two weeks ago and all the safety equipment for me, my wife, and one son is aboard. Today I lend the boat to my friend so he can take his family boating. He, his wife, his mother-in-law, uncle, and five kids all go out with a cooler full of beer but only with my three PFDs.

If the PD scanned the boat and it was inspected two weeks ago, what bearing would that have on the way it is being operated today?

If my friend wrecks my boat and kills his family, don't you think there would be a firestorm when it was learned that because it was checked two weeks ago it was ignored today because it was inspected two weeks ago?

[Engine 80 16]

ok so you say,but if i drive down rt 87 can i be pulled over by every police dept along side rt 87 lets say nyack tarrytown irvington greenburgh dobbsferry ardsly hastings elmsford yonkers heck lets get the mta out there thay have federal jurisdiction,thats whats going on out on the hudson ,and good old chuck schumer will take care of it,its a free for all out ther cmon guys,leave it to the wcpd and rcsd state and the coast gaurd ,this is what happens when every dept wants a boat and do a job thats being done good already,team work dont forget that,