If Only More Departments Could Act This Way......

[x635 4,066]

If only more departments could operate this way........

And, to note, these will be ALS-Paramedic engine companies.

To the rescue

ESD fire department opens for business

By Matt SmithThe Cleburne TEXAS Times-Review

Tue Jul 05, 2011,

Area firefighters and officials gathered Friday morning for a dedication ceremony opening the Johnson County (Texas) Emergency Services District No. 1’s new fire department. A department created to compliment, not usurp or replace the county’s volunteer fire departments.

http://www.cleburnetimesreview.com/local/x925652552/To-the-rescue

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This is not completely unlike my suggestion in a previous thread for a "fly" engine to cover a couple of towns/villages, staffed by one or two members of each department daily, 7:00 am to 6:00 pm and available to respond immediately to any calls in the combined villages. It 'guarantees' a quick response and spreads the load.

On a County wide level, the County could place a paid engine/crew in strategically located local firehouses that have the available apparatus space and amenities for a daytime crew. From there, they can be dispatched to

various local communities as an initial response to supplement the local volunteer departments. Looking forward, compact quints would make the ideal first response apparatus.

The biggest drawback would be if the local volunteers reduced their response in light of "the County truck will take care of it".

What Texas did is forward thinking, solution oriented action. It's commendable. As I also said in a previous thread, it's unfortunate to see so many new firehouse being built or renovated without any accommodation for

bunk space. That's not forward thinking.

[16fire5 693]

How is it forward thinking to have 2 fire departments for one jurisdiction? In reality the best system would be for everyone to work for the same department and same chief.

[27east 19]

This is not completely unlike my suggestion in a previous thread for a "fly" engine to cover a couple of towns/villages, staffed by one or two members of each department daily, 7:00 am to 6:00 pm and available to respond immediately to any calls in the combined villages. It 'guarantees' a quick response and spreads the load.

On a County wide level, the County could place a paid engine/crew in strategically located local firehouses that have the available apparatus space and amenities for a daytime crew. From there, they can be dispatched to

various local communities as an initial response to supplement the local volunteer departments. Looking forward, compact quints would make the ideal first response apparatus.

The biggest drawback would be if the local volunteers reduced their response in light of "the County truck will take care of it".

What Texas did is forward thinking, solution oriented action. It's commendable. As I also said in a previous thread, it's unfortunate to see so many new firehouse being built or renovated without any accommodation for

bunk space. That's not forward thinking.

Is this what is done in some counties in Maryland around Metro DC?

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Forward thinking in terms of years down the road. Locally there are many examples of different agencies covering the same 'jurisdiction'. Briarcliff, for example, covers the Village of Briarcliff and some, not all, of certain unincorporated areas in the Town of Ossining and the Town of Mt. Pleasant. Other parts of these same Towns are covered by Archville, Pocantico Hills, Pleasantville, Ossining, Hawthorne and maybe some others. And, EMS coverage may be provided by other agencies.

I also lived in Millbrook, in Dutchess County. Need a cop? You could call the Millbrook PD, the Dutchess County Sheriffs or the State Police. Take your pick. Respond to a PIAA with Briarcliff and you might meet up with a Village of Briarcliff cop, a Town of Ossining (now Westchester County) cop, a Town of Mt. Pleasant cop, or a State Trooper.

The Westchester County Police overlaps many local jurisdictions and just absorbed the Town of Ossining PD. Who's next? What if the Town of Ossining wanted to 'contract' its fire service to the County instead of to the Village of Briarcliff FD and Village of Ossining FD? What if the Town of Mt. Pleasant went to the County and said instead of getting fire coverage from three or four departments it wanted the County to do it? One day push will come to shove and a transition will begin. It may take 20 years but it will eventually happen.

Where I live now, in Palm Beach County, FL., the County last year absorbed the fire and police services of the City of Lake Worth, a City that previously had its own paid police and fire. Those City cops and firefighters became County employees. And that same scenario has become commonplace here and also in other areas of the Country.

Overlapping, duplication of services is common place. Locally we have Village, Town, County and State governments and all kinds of 'quasi' governmental agencies, like taxing fire districts, all with many overlapping functions. Consolidation of the volunteer fire service or transitioning to a different form or fire service will take many years. There are generations of volunteers who hold the traditions of the volunteer service near and dear, myself included.

What the Texas model did was provide a 'guaranteed' daytime response capability to augment the volunteer companies. Anybody who monitors the scanners knows that it sometimes takes a little time to get some apparatus on the road. One day you might have several members that just happen to be at the firehouse when a call comes in, then again maybe a lot of people are out of town on a particular day. If your house is on fire should you care that the four guys approved to drive the Tanker went to the Yankee game together?

All Texas did was make sure that the call would be covered in a timely, consistent manner. Initially, a little duplication of services might save some lives or property and that's what we're supposed to be all about, aren't we?

Government wastes so much money on so many useless endeavors, I think spending some money to ensure a timely Fire/EMS response would be a good thing.

[x635 4,066]

To note, Westchester County is 450 square miles, with a population of almost a million.

Johnson County, TX is over 700 square miles, with a population of only 150,000. The property tax is 6 cents per $100 to fund the ESD, and most homes are less then $100,000, with varying property sizes. Some of the ESD firefighters are also volunteer firefighters in their hometown FD's, since they are so extremly rural.

The diference in attitudes here:

Johnston and Watson said the most important aspect will be the presence of firefighters during the day, a time when the majority of volunteer firefighters are working their regular jobs.

The ESD firefighters will work a 40-hour week Monday through Friday, Johnston said.

“To augment daytime staffing,” Johnston said. “The main emphasis is to assist, not replace, the volunteers. This county is a volunteer county and it’s going to remain so for a long time.”

Many of the part-time ESD firefighters work for other area paid departments, Johnston said.

“The big thing is the [ESD firefighters] ability to interact with the volunteer departments for a seamless transition,” Johnston said. “They’ve already been told there will be zero tolerance for anything else. Johnson County is heavily dependent on volunteers, and we don’t want to change that.”

[Dinosaur 844]

I also lived in Millbrook, in Dutchess County. Need a cop? You could call the Millbrook PD, the Dutchess County Sheriffs or the State Police. Take your pick. Respond to a PIAA with Briarcliff and you might meet up with a Village of Briarcliff cop, a Town of Ossining (now Westchester County) cop, a Town of Mt. Pleasant cop, or a State Trooper.

The Westchester County Police overlaps many local jurisdictions and just absorbed the Town of Ossining PD. Who's next? What if the Town of Ossining wanted to 'contract' its fire service to the County instead of to the Village of Briarcliff FD and Village of Ossining FD? What if the Town of Mt. Pleasant went to the County and said instead of getting fire coverage from three or four departments it wanted the County to do it? One day push will come to shove and a transition will begin. It may take 20 years but it will eventually happen.

Overlapping, duplication of services is common place. Locally we have Village, Town, County and State governments and all kinds of 'quasi' governmental agencies, like taxing fire districts, all with many overlapping functions. Consolidation of the volunteer fire service or transitioning to a different form or fire service will take many years. There are generations of volunteers who hold the traditions of the volunteer service near and dear, myself included.

In Dutchess if you call 911 you get the closest cop. It may be a local, a deputy sheriff or trooper.

What difference does it make if you meet a different cop at an EMS call? Who cares?

There is no County FD in Westchester so the likelihood that you'll see a town push for the county is pretty far-fetched. On the other hand, how many FD's are there in Mt Pleasant? 5? 6? 7? Combine them all into one big department, merge the districts, pool the resources (including $$$) and you'll have one kick-a** department with a lot of clout.

The new tax cap in NYS is going to change things a lot faster than 20 years.

[FFPCogs 863]

How is it forward thinking to have 2 fire departments for one jurisdiction? In reality the best system would be for everyone to work for the same department and same chief.

It may not be forward thinking to some, but such a move is in fact progress. As "right" as it may be to have one dept and one Chief, generally it is not quite that simple to go from theory to the practical application of a consolidation. There will be legal, financial and historical concerns that have to be addressed before any such consolidations can take place, and these can be quite formidable tasks in and of themselves. The main concern must always be the abilty to answer alarms, whether it's 10 departments in a 2 square mile area or a 200 sq. mile area. If they are doing so effectively than so be it, if not than another avenue should be explored. It seems to me that what was done here was to fill a need for the community and that is in the end the prime concern. Hopefully as time goes by further efforts will produce a more streamlined and efficient system, but until then I too applaud the effort and forward thinking of the powers that be there in taking this step.

Is this what is done in some counties in Maryland around Metro DC?

In a nutshell most if not all MD depts operate on a countywide basis with both career and volunteer divisions. The ones that I am familar with in metro DC area have minimum staffing and response requirements. If those requirements can be met solely with volunteers than the station remains 100% volunteer otherwise career personnel are utilzed. Most have a combination of personel but some stations are now all career. It all depends on the ability a VFD to meet the necesary requirements.

Cogs

Edited July 9, 2011 by FFPCogs

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In Dutchess if you call 911 you get the closest cop. It may be a local, a deputy sheriff or trooper.

What difference does it make if you meet a different cop at an EMS call? Who cares?

There is no County FD in Westchester so the likelihood that you'll see a town push for the county is pretty far-fetched. On the other hand, how many FD's are there in Mt Pleasant? 5? 6? 7? Combine them all into one big department, merge the districts, pool the resources (including $$$) and you'll have one kick-a** department with a lot of clout.

The new tax cap in NYS is going to change things a lot faster than 20 years.

My point was only to highlight the overlap in services provided by different agencies to the same locale. While there is no "County Fire Department" the County has taken over the majority of dispatch, maintains the training center, the C&O Teams, the County Coordinators on mutual aid calls, maintains apparatus at the training center and I'm not 100% sure but doesn't it have a hazmat unit and other assets that respond to incidents around the County? I don't think it would take much for the County to get into the active suppression phase of firefighting, particularly if someone comes up with a cost benefit proposal that will save a cash strapped Village/Town/City some money. As our politicians are quick to say these days, "everything is on the table".

[Bnechis 3,961]

This is not completely unlike my suggestion in a previous thread for a "fly" engine to cover a couple of towns/villages, staffed by one or two members of each department daily, 7:00 am to 6:00 pm and available to respond immediately to any calls in the combined villages. It 'guarantees' a quick response and spreads the load.

Great idea

On a County wide level, the County could place a paid engine/crew in strategically located local firehouses that have the available apparatus space and amenities for a daytime crew. From there, they can be dispatched to various local communities as an initial response to supplement the local volunteer departments. Looking forward, compact quints would make the ideal first response apparatus.

1)Nye does not allow for county FD's. I rememebr that it took years to pass laws to allow county Hazmat teams and then later county special teams and there was no groups opposing this.

2) county governments, along with all other governments were just given a tax cap that will force reduction in county services, so even if it were legal, its not going to happen.

3) Compact quints are useless as they do not nothing well.

The biggest drawback would be if the local volunteers reduced their response in light of "the County truck will take care of it".

You would only add paid crews in areas where they already tone for any availble driver and crew for a call....you can have less volunteers than zero.

[Bnechis 3,961]

What if the Town of Ossining wanted to 'contract' its fire service to the County instead of to the Village of Briarcliff FD and Village of Ossining FD? What if the Town of Mt. Pleasant went to the County and said instead of getting fire coverage from three or four departments it wanted the County to do it?

The town of Ossining may have the right to contract with another dept. to cover unincorporated areas of the town, but they have no say in Municipal coverage of villages (if the village has a Fire Dept.) And the county does not have the abilty to provide the service anyway.

The Town of Mt. Pleasant is completely covered by Fire Districts (no Municipal depts). They voters or the boards of Fire Commissioners can cause consolidation, but the town has no say.

Overlapping, duplication of services is common place. Locally we have Village, Town, County and State governments and all kinds of 'quasi' governmental agencies, like taxing fire districts, all with many overlapping functions. Consolidation of the volunteer fire service or transitioning to a different form or fire service will take many years. There are generations of volunteers who hold the traditions of the volunteer service near and dear, myself included.

Agreed we need to consolidate at all levels.

How many of those generations are fighting to hold on to traditions, but no longer respond to calls. "If you are not part of the colution, you are part of the problem"

Government wastes so much money on so many useless endeavors, I think spending some money to ensure a timely Fire/EMS response would be a good thing.

Westchester has already invested over a Billion in Stations, apparatus and equipment. We do not need to spent any more money, we need to have fewer stations, fewer apparatus and use the savings to pay for firefighters to actually show up.

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Question: In NY, althoughit's said that it's not legal to have County FD's, alternatively, can't there be a "County Fire District". There are many fire districts in NY which cover multiple municipalities, including some that cover in and out of Westchester as regular response.

Also, 60 Control is a Countywide agency (by NYS law), so is the Haz-Mat and other specialized resources they have.

There are so many loopholes in NYS legislation, that I feel that it wouldn't be legislation that got in the way, it would be the members of these services who hamper any positive change, rallying until it's dead.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Question: In NY, althoughit's said that it's not legal to have County FD's, alternatively, can't there be a "County Fire District". There are many fire districts in NY which cover multiple municipalities, including some that cover in and out of Westchester as regular response.

NYS municipal law has 4 parallel tracks: County Law, City Law, Town Law and Village Law and in most cases while they may say the same thing, you can not cross from one catagory to another. Fire Districts fall under county law and any town can have a fire district or multiple districts, and multiple towns can share a fire district. So you could have a fire district that is the size of a county, but it would not be a "county fire District" and it could not include and city or village (municipal) fire departments (So in Westchester, the Cities of Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, Peekskill, Rye, White Plains & Yonkers can not be included and the village depts: Ardsley?, Briarciff?, Croton?, Dobbs Ferry?, Elmsford?, Irvington?, Larchmont, Mamaroneck (village), Mt. Kisco?, Ossining, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Pleasantville?, Port Chester, Rye Brook, Scarsdale, Sleepy Hollow? and Tarrytown?. (The ? are because I was not sure if any of those depts are municipal village or a district, but I think most were municipal)

Assuming all of the above depts are as I classified, 24 depts can not be part of a district (the village depts could be disbanded and merged into districts).

There are so many loopholes in NYS legislation, that I feel that it wouldn't be legislation that got in the way, it would be the members of these services who hamper any positive change, rallying until it's dead.

A little of both. Since the current law (which dates to the 1800's) says you cant have a county FD, The state would need to pass a new law to allow it and all those members who do not want it will be calling albany to vote no, and nobody is calling for it to happen.