Updated: Croton looks to hire paid EMT for volunteer squad

[FF402 133]

Croton ambulance squad under review, response times lagging

10:17 PM, Jun. 17, 2011

Written by Robert Marchant, LoHud.com

The village's director of emergency services, Richard Nagle, a former Croton-on-Hudson fire chief with extensive experience in emergency services, has been asked to carry out a study of the village's ambulance procedures, as well as recommendations for improvement.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110618/NEWS02/106180332/Croton-ambulance-squad-under-review-response-times-lagging?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Westchester County, New York

[helicopper 1,050]

http://www.lohud.com...ext|Westchester County, New York

What exactly is the "village's Director of Emergency Services"? What are his duties?

[peterose313 345]

OVAC had been covering a lot of their calls for a couple months and actually had to have a meeting with them about it because Croton wasn't getting out. So I'm told by an officer in OVAC anyways. OVAC fly car covers croton anyways but I'm talking an actual bus responding apparently.

[Remember585 815]

What exactly is the "village's Director of Emergency Services"? What are his duties?

I'm not positive that is his actual title. Last year, the village made Mr. Nagle their "Emergency Management Director", to help the village with diaster preparedness, etc. At the June 6th village board meeting, the board passed a resolution making Mr. Nagle the liasion to Croton EMS for the village board. We are under the impression that Mr. Nagle will be overseeing operations and coming up with the best solution for EMS in Croton, although none of this has been 100% verified as of this writing.

Below is the resolution made by the board on 6/6/11.

On motion of TRUSTEE___Raskob__, seconded by TRUSTEE _Schmidt___, the following resolution was unanimously adopted by the Board of Trustees of the Village of Croton-on-Hudson, New York:

Whereas, the Village wishes to provide immediate assistance to the leadership of the Croton EMS in order to provide a continuity of service by our EMS volunteers; and

Whereas, the Village has an Emergency Management Director who is available to assist EMS,

Now Therefore be it Resolved, that the Board of Trustees authorizes the Village Manager to appoint the Emergency Management Director to act as Interim Liaison between the Village staff and Board and the membership of the Croton EMS and Fire Department for as long as is needed to study and implement the options that will provide a continuity of ambulance services to the members of our community; and

Be it Further Resolved, that, should the Emergency Management Director accept the role as Interim Liaison, that work should commence effective immediately, and that the Director work with the Village Manager as necessary and report back to the Village Board within three weeks from today with preliminary findings and suggestions to ensure continuity of service to the community.

Now - what I find to be interesting is that it says "to act as Interim Liaison between the Village staff and Board and the membership of the Croton EMS and Fire Department for as long as is needed to study and implement the options that will provide a continuity of ambulance services to the members of our community" - HOW DOES THIS AFFECT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT? We don't provide EMS, so how would this be our issue?

I've sent emails to the Manager, Mayor and others and hopefully soon I will have an answer. (Please note that any "answer" I get will be shared with our membership first, before I post it here, as that would be the right thing to do, IMHO.)

Either way, I know that CEMS has had their issues over the past few months and I hope an answer to this is found as soon as possible. Some were arguing that Mr. Nagle has no EMS experience - but his prior experiences in administrative roles in fire departments and his open-minded approach should yield the best solution for all involved.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Remember585

[ems-buff 81]

Four words... Needs to be fix....Either hire an EMT wether contracted thru a commeral agency, or hire independently, or split up the CON, to agencies that can handle the volume.. I hope a solution is found thou..

[joetnymedic 43]

we went thru this in the hollow when i was there. back in 2001 and beginning of 2002 we relied heavily on tarrytown for ambulance coverage. there was a small core group of volunteers that tried to get the rig out, but unfortunately that didn't always happen. i look fondly at my days in westchester county as well as the days i volunteered with sleepy. thru recruitment, and getting new equipment and a few other things the ambulance turned around and response times picked up too. there were times when the medic had to be taken out of service to ride in a bls call too. but things did change. i am still proud to call many of those vollys my friends. that all said, back then the same problem existed, people had to work to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. some people, myself included had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet. now a days with the way the economy is, it's even more so. unfortunateky this is the trend. as you all no doubt know and realize, volunteers are getting harder and harder to find. the other growing trend is paid staffing at least from 6a-6p or 7a-7p, that's just the nature of the beast. north branford up here in ct just went through this. now the way it is, is there is a paid crew days and they respond, if a second call comes in they tone out the volly crew, if they cant get one together it goes to m/a. even though there are a percentage of calls that do roll over for coverage, the majority of calls are handled without having to take resources from another agency, its sad but it has to happen. Croton is going to have to go with paid staffing days whether it be in house or thru an outside agency. that staffing is going to cost money and unfortunately, people are going to see it in their tax bills and are most likely going to complain about it. but it has to be looked at this way, ems is an essential service, you need it no if ands or buts about it, yes its going to cost a few bucks which nobody really has these days, but look at all the days the volunteers did keep things going for pennies on a tax bill. they have that to be thankful for also, while staffing days, its still cheaper in the long run than 24 hour coverage. the other thing is they could get an outside agency to cover and that outside agency bill for services, but thats going to cost the people in town alot more money in the long run.

just my 2 cents

joe

[Guest alsfirefighter]

we went thru this in the hollow when i was there. back in 2001 and beginning of 2002 we relied heavily on tarrytown for ambulance coverage. there was a small core group of volunteers that tried to get the rig out, but unfortunately that didn't always happen. i look fondly at my days in westchester county as well as the days i volunteered with sleepy. thru recruitment, and getting new equipment and a few other things the ambulance turned around and response times picked up too. there were times when the medic had to be taken out of service to ride in a bls call too. but things did change. i am still proud to call many of those vollys my friends. that all said, back then the same problem existed, people had to work to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. some people, myself included had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet. now a days with the way the economy is, it's even more so. unfortunateky this is the trend. as you all no doubt know and realize, volunteers are getting harder and harder to find. the other growing trend is paid staffing at least from 6a-6p or 7a-7p, that's just the nature of the beast. north branford up here in ct just went through this. now the way it is, is there is a paid crew days and they respond, if a second call comes in they tone out the volly crew, if they cant get one together it goes to m/a. even though there are a percentage of calls that do roll over for coverage, the majority of calls are handled without having to take resources from another agency, its sad but it has to happen. Croton is going to have to go with paid staffing days whether it be in house or thru an outside agency. that staffing is going to cost money and unfortunately, people are going to see it in their tax bills and are most likely going to complain about it. but it has to be looked at this way, ems is an essential service, you need it no if ands or buts about it, yes its going to cost a few bucks which nobody really has these days, but look at all the days the volunteers did keep things going for pennies on a tax bill. they have that to be thankful for also, while staffing days, its still cheaper in the long run than 24 hour coverage. the other thing is they could get an outside agency to cover and that outside agency bill for services, but thats going to cost the people in town alot more money in the long run.

just my 2 cents

joe

To bad more towns/villages/municipalities don't do the same. Maybe its time for Croton to get back into the Town of Cortlandt system and explore options with Cortlandt VAC for some resourse sharing to get some paid personnel during hard spots. Between both their call volumes it may work out well. With the recent additional improvements to the Cortlandt/Peekskill ALS system with staffing in addition to the PFD medics there are some real positive things that could happen.

Also wasn't the split done to foster the ability to bill? That money should be used for staffing...period.

Edited June 19, 2011 by alsfirefighter

[Bnechis 3,961]

unfortunateky this is the trend. as you all no doubt know and realize, volunteers are getting harder and harder to find. the other growing trend is paid staffing at least from 6a-6p or 7a-7p, that's just the nature of the beast...............Croton is going to have to go with paid staffing days whether it be in house or thru an outside agency.........ems is an essential service, you need it no if ands or buts about it,

Yes its the trend, and the short term solution has been to hire. But it is not the long term solution and in general it holds EMS back.

How many agencies in Westchester now have paid staff (EMT's &/or Medics)?

How many of these EMS employees are working for multiple agencies?

How many of these agencys are handling less than 1,000 calls per year (1 call per 8 hours)? or even less than 2,000 (2 calls per 8 hours)?

The reason some can call EMS....Earn Money Sleeping is because we do not need 1 or 2 paid staff members covering every little VAC. We need a SYSTEM. That can ensure a response and does not nickle and dime the staff. As long as all the jobs are hourly with minimal or no benefits, then EMS will always be a 2nd class job.

[JM15 386]

Yes its the trend, and the short term solution has been to hire. But it is not the long term solution and in general it holds EMS back.

How many agencies in Westchester now have paid staff (EMT's &/or Medics)?

How many of these EMS employees are working for multiple agencies?

How many of these agencys are handling less than 1,000 calls per year (1 call per 8 hours)? or even less than 2,000 (2 calls per 8 hours)?

The reason some can call EMS....Earn Money Sleeping is because we do not need 1 or 2 paid staff members covering every little VAC. We need a SYSTEM. That can ensure a response and does not nickle and dime the staff. As long as all the jobs are hourly with minimal or no benefits, then EMS will always be a 2nd class job.

Great Points and well said... We all know where this discussion is going...

[peterose313 345]

To bad more towns/villages/municipalities don't do the same. Maybe its time for Croton to get back into the Town of Cortlandt system and explore options with Cortlandt VAC for some resourse sharing to get some paid personnel during hard spots. Between both their call volumes it may work out well. With the recent additional improvements to the Cortlandt/Peekskill ALS system with staffing in addition to the PFD medics there are some real positive things that could happen.

Also wasn't the split done to foster the ability to bill? That money should be used for staffing...period.

Ossining is closer and would have a faster response time plus the ALS fly car covers croton anyways.

[FFEMT150 214]

Ossining is closer and would have a faster response time plus the ALS fly car covers croton anyways.

It's actually six of one and half a dozen the other. OVAC is closer to parts croton as CCVAC, Mohegan and Yorktown are closer to others. I think the idea of resource sharing is one that should be explored. This could be benificial for multiple agencies.

[MoFire390 118]

it is my understanding that ccvac has been in talks with a commerical agency to provide a mutual aid ambulance. an agreement was found in some paper work a few months ago. im sure once this agreement gets signed it will be made public who the agreement is with. ccvac has also been covering many of its own calls as well as croton calls when ovac can not. ill try to post some numbers later in the am.

as for croton i hope everthing works out

[wedgeclose 59]

Croton is not alone...Briarcliff has the same problem...spotty coverage of calls...OVAC to the Rescue. 15 years ago OVAC was mostly volunteer with few shifts being covered by paid personell. Now due to erosion of the volunteer base OVAC is covered nearly 24/7 with paid crews both ALS and BLS. OVAC also contracts with Briarcliff and Croton for an ALS flycar. Call volumes are thru the roof and even with 2 buses and the flycar OVAC is sometimes stretched too thin to cover calls in either village for transport. Solution, hire a paid driver in both communities and they will have coverage.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Ossining is closer and would have a faster response time plus the ALS fly car covers croton anyways.

Actually it's about the same and the difference is made up by the car locations and where the call would be and which unit sent. Not to mention having 3 to 4 cars staffed.

[AJU 39]

Solution, hire a paid driver in both communities and they will have coverage.

I disagree - nine times out of ten (maybe more) a driver's available but there's no EMT.

[peterose313 345]

Actually it's about the same and the difference is made up by the car locations and where the call would be and which unit sent. Not to mention having 3 to 4 cars staffed.

That's true.

[Remember585 815]

From the "Ossining-Croton Patch":

Croton-on-Hudson’s Village Emergency Management Director Dick Nagle presented his report on the state of the Emergency Medical Services last night before the Village’s Board of Trustees during their regular meeting.

The report presented by Nagle gave an overview of the EMS, problems faced and possible solutions.

“I can tell you the EMS is a system in great need of help,” said Nagle.

In the report Nagle outlined two major problems with the EMS system; poor response times to calls and low membership levels within the EMS.

“It is very hard for people to Volunteer for EMS,” Nagle continued. “The course is difficult and if a call comes in at 2 a.m. someone has to get up and go. They [the volunteer EMS workers] are doing a lot of work. Burn out is a problem. Several people who have left indicated the time commitment was too much.”

Full article is here: http://ossining.patch.com/articles/croton-offers-solution-to-ems-challenges

It's my understanding that a paid EMT/Driver is being looked in to for 0700-1900 Monday thru Friday. I like that progress is being made to fix things, but those early morning calls (roughly 0200-0700) are hard to cover too. Hopefully a solution to the entire issue is found, and the members of CEMS that still come out and have pride in what they do aren't discouraged by the paid assistance. To those of you that have stuck it out and keep doing your best, my hat's off to you.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Remember585

[peterose313 345]

Croton is not alone...Briarcliff has the same problem...spotty coverage of calls...OVAC to the Rescue. 15 years ago OVAC was mostly volunteer with few shifts being covered by paid personell. Now due to erosion of the volunteer base OVAC is covered nearly 24/7 with paid crews both ALS and BLS. OVAC also contracts with Briarcliff and Croton for an ALS flycar. Call volumes are thru the roof and even with 2 buses and the flycar OVAC is sometimes stretched too thin to cover calls in either village for transport. Solution, hire a paid driver in both communities and they will have coverage.

Ossining has 3-4 buses and 2 fly cars. 74A1,74A2,74A3,36 M-1 and 36 M-2. One of which is the Tri-Community Area fly car which is sponsored by Phelps Memorial Hospital. I thought they had a 4th bus at one time too. Someone had told me they were pushing 3,000 call this year. O.V.A.C. is a very busy V.A.C.

[Remember585 815]

Ossining has 3-4 buses and 2 fly cars. 74A1,74A2,74A3,36 M-1 and 36 M-2. One of which is the Tri-Community Area fly car which is sponsored by Phelps Memorial Hospital. I thought they had a 4th bus at one time too. Someone had told me they were pushing 3,000 call this year. O.V.A.C. is a very busy V.A.C.

But how much of it is still a "VAC?"

[JJB531 652]

But how much of it is still a "VAC?"

Very little of it. Ossining has full-time paid Medics & EMT's... by full-time I'm talking benefits, 401k, etc. Then there is a surplus of per-diem medics who primarily work the 36M1 fly car. There is still a small core of volunteers and the volunteer line officers who are still active within the agency and do staff the BLS ambulance primarily. As far as volunteer medics who are active, I can only think of 1 or 2 who still actively ride.

[16fire5 693]

Actually it's about the same and the difference is made up by the car locations and where the call would be and which unit sent. Not to mention having 3 to 4 cars staffed.

For those of us who don't know the current staffing could you elaborate? Always 2 Peekskill FF-P? 1 or 2 Volunteer Paramedics? Sorry just not aware of the specifics of how Cortlandt/Peekskill is currently staffing medics.

[joetnymedic 43]

“Since we are not responding to call our calls,” said Trustee Schmidt. “Ossining bills out to the insurance company and we are losing revenue.”

not for anything, quit yapping about losing money. there is a responsibilty to provide this service to your residents, being volunteers or paid. this shouldn't be about money (but it always is - revenue, revenue, revenue) it's about providing your residents with every aspect of public safety - be it police, fire or ems it is the village or towns responsibilty to provide it. it's called public safety and public trust for a reason. it's not always about making a buck, it's about doing the right thing. I know plenty of people who are on this site that volunteer and they do it because they feel obligated to do the right thing. they have the need and the drive to help others, as a volunteer, they damn sure aren't raking in the bucks which is what Crotons elected officials are moaning about. "Hey, if mrs. smith dies because the bus didn't roll we just lost money" Thats basically what they are saying and you know what? I don't live or even work up that way anymore and that statement makes me sick. If they have to hire paid staff to run the ambulance, do they think they'll be making money then? Anything they do meet is gonna go right back out the door for saleries and insurance, maintainance, etc. smh btw i also don't want to discourage the probly small group of volunteers that I'm sure are still trying to do their best and get that rig out. I know it's tough, I've been thru it too, so has, jay and todd and quite a few others here. Hats off to them, keep trying your best, I know its hard but always remember you are doing a great and noble thing and providing a very essential service. One thing I'd like to see happen. If Croton does go paid, even though some probably wouldn't take it. I'd like to see them offer the jobs to the volunteers that do make the bus.

Edited June 22, 2011 by joetnymedic

[wrx9514 2]

Croton is not alone...Briarcliff has the same problem...spotty coverage of calls...OVAC to the Rescue. 15 years ago OVAC was mostly volunteer with few shifts being covered by paid personell. Now due to erosion of the volunteer base OVAC is covered nearly 24/7 with paid crews both ALS and BLS. OVAC also contracts with Briarcliff and Croton for an ALS flycar. Call volumes are thru the roof and even with 2 buses and the flycar OVAC is sometimes stretched too thin to cover calls in either village for transport. Solution, hire a paid driver in both communities and they will have coverage.

Briarcliff has a paid EMT on staff 2 days a week, 8 hours each day, to combat the problem with not having enough responding EMTs during certain days. And you can't even say there is a problem with Briarcliff EMS in comparison to Croton.

[MoFire390 118]

For those of us who don't know the current staffing could you elaborate? Always 2 Peekskill FF-P? 1 or 2 Volunteer Paramedics? Sorry just not aware of the specifics of how Cortlandt/Peekskill is currently staffing medics.

from my understanding of ur question: peekskill fd runs 2 ff/medics (39m1 and m2) the corltandt regional car is staffed by 1 medic who is on for 12 hrs they get paid to run the fly car (35m1 or 2 depending on coverage area). not sure if it has changed.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

from my understanding of ur question: peekskill fd runs 2 ff/medics (39m1 and m2) the corltandt regional car is staffed by 1 medic who is on for 12 hrs they get paid to run the fly car (35m1 or 2 depending on coverage area). not sure if it has changed.

First there are no volunteer medics in the cortlandt system. They are all paid.

Staffing is always guaranteed to have 2 medics for 24 hours. 1 Hospital based. 1 FD based. 90% of the time the FD staffs 2 medics to the system. In addition the system also added a 2nd hospital based car 8a-4p based on call volume statistics generally monday thru friday although it is adjusted based on needs with events, etc. It has worked out extremely well and our requests for mutual aid are extremely low to almost non existent and in the end during our highest call volume times we always have 3 units in service. Regardless of the staffing the response district is divided between north and south. South is covered by either 35M2 (station next to trooper barracks at cortlandt train station), 39M2 (PFD station 6). North by 35M1 (HVHC) or 39M1 (PFD station 5). For example today...we have 4 units in service until 4 pm. 35M2 is south...both 39 medic units are staffed and 35M1 is north. After 4 we go to 3 units with 35M2 south, 39M1 handling the north end based on the weekly rotation and 39M2 is basically the 2nd due to any side who is ever on a call.

[wedgeclose 59]

OVAC has been in the ALS business for a very long time! There used to be 18 Volunteer medics covering all shifts 24/7. There was a time when member requirements were 60 HOURS PER MONTH...and you had to beg borrow and steal for a shift! Through no fault of there own many of the volunteers either burned out or moved away. Thankfully, a talent pool exists where the excellent care OVAC is famous for is being carried on....though at a price. The volunteers at OVAC are a proud bunch...I am proud to be a retired life member of a great corps!

[bmfd231 3]

Croton is not alone...Briarcliff has the same problem...spotty coverage of calls...OVAC to the Rescue. 15 years ago OVAC was mostly volunteer with few shifts being covered by paid personell. Now due to erosion of the volunteer base OVAC is covered nearly 24/7 with paid crews both ALS and BLS. OVAC also contracts with Briarcliff and Croton for an ALS flycar. Call volumes are thru the roof and even with 2 buses and the flycar OVAC is sometimes stretched too thin to cover calls in either village for transport. Solution, hire a paid driver in both communities and they will have coverage.

You don't know what your are talking about! The only one to the rescue is Briarcliff saving OVAC's butt, and on regular basis. You don't want me to get into the details because I can document them all1 I might also add that OVAC does not run the Flycar which is a SEPARATE SERVICE. Maybe you should talk to your "Chief" and get your facts straight, because you can be dam sure I will be having a conversation with him about you.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Regardless of what is true or not...take your issues via PM or pick a street on the border and discuss it. Not sure what your going to talk about to any chief or whatever other titles people call themselves today but I didn't see anything over the top or personal. When I rode in the ossining system...all 3 agencies served by the Tri Village flycar had issues. But OVAC at the time was the only 1 will a fully staffed bus. 2nd calls or more...separate discussion.

[Remember585 815]

Story from "The Daily Croton:"

My link

[JJB531 652]

You don't know what your are talking about! The only one to the rescue is Briarcliff saving OVAC's butt, and on regular basis. You don't want me to get into the details because I can document them all1 I might also add that OVAC does not run the Flycar which is a SEPARATE SERVICE. Maybe you should talk to your "Chief" and get your facts straight, because you can be dam sure I will be having a conversation with him about you.

Briarcliff saving OVAC's butt? Please, go into details. Um, if OVAC doesnt run the fly car, then who does? Yes, the fly car does operate under a separate agency code (Tri-Community ALS), but is lettered Ossining VAC, turns out of OVAC HQ, scheduling is done by OVAC, medications/narcs are handled by OVAC, equipment is supplied by OVAC, OVAC Line Officers/Chief oversee the daily operations of the Fly Car, the medics are hired by OVAC.... So, once again who runs the fly car?

I'm not sure who you think you are threatening people on this board, threatening to "talk to your chief about you", threatening someone who was simply proud to be a life member of an agency, but if you have a problem with OVAC, it's operations, or the way they conduct EMS, there are proper avenues to address your concerns. if you would like to start airing out each agency's dirty laundry out here in a public forum, we can do that, just be careful what you wish for.