Armonk - Plane Crash - DISCUSSION

[firedude 985]

Does anybody have any info? An IA has not been writen. Thanks in advance.

update: 4 DOA in aircraft

Edited June 18, 2011 by firedude

[joetnymedic 43]

ok here's what i got. plane went down area of 113 kings street, best access was from rt 22. plane was down in the woods with heavy smoke and 1 doa on board. thats all i got for ya othere than it was appearently in west harrisons neck of the woods per the page I got

Edited June 18, 2011 by joetnymedic

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Small Cessna went down shortly after take off from Westchester County Airport. Plane crashed into the wood IAO 113 King Street after encountering problems shortly after takeoff. Crews had are having trouble locating the plane. Gators are being used. small fires are being extinguished. 3 or 4 people reported dead.

Incident Alert

[ny10570 745]

Wasn't there a similar crash 5 or so years ago? Cesna down in the same area.

[firedude 985]

Wasn't there a similar crash 5 or so years ago? Cesna down in the same area.

yes. In fact you heard many people on scene who were giving directions to responding units say, same area as a couple years ago.

[helicopper 1,050]

Wasn't there a similar crash 5 or so years ago? Cesna down in the same area.

Almost exactly the same location (at least the same section of woods). Right off the approach end of Runway 16. Last time though it was foul weather and a student being taught how to fly in such conditions. Today, weather was certainly not a factor.

[firedude 985]

Well acording to the Airport Weather Station... The weather (as reported at 12:56pm) was Mostly cloudy, winds were out of the north west at 5mph, clouds were scattered at 3,400ft and Broken at 5,000ft. The temp was 78 and the dew point was 63. The altimiter was 29.85 and the sea level preasure was 1010.3mb.

source

Edited June 18, 2011 by firedude

[dwcfireman 656]

Small Cessna went down shortly after take off from Westchester County Airport. Plane crashed into the wood IAO 113 King Street after encountering problems shortly after takeoff. Crews had are having trouble locating the plane. Gators are being used. small fires are being extinguished. 3 or 4 people reported dead.

Incident Alert

Can anyone confirm Airport 7 & 11 on scene? Not trying to call you out PFDRes47cue, it's just not the airport's internal policy to respond off-field (before anyone questions me on this, I'm ARPT11 chauffeur at night). But now you got me wondering because I saw you put them down in the IA, and I know how some policies get thrown out the door depending on certain situations.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Can anyone confirm Airport 7 & 11 on scene? Not trying to call you out PFDRes47cue, it's just not the airport's internal policy to respond off-field (before anyone questions me on this, I'm ARPT11 chauffeur at night). But now you got me wondering because I saw you put them down in the IA, and I know how some policies get thrown out the door depending on certain situations.

I personally watched either Airport 11 or 7 leave the staging area and head back to the airport.

[voltage1256 42]

airport 11 left the scene after it was found in the woods

[firedude 985]

Can anyone confirm Airport 7 & 11 on scene? Not trying to call you out PFDRes47cue, it's just not the airport's internal policy to respond off-field (before anyone questions me on this, I'm ARPT11 chauffeur at night). But now you got me wondering because I saw you put them down in the IA, and I know how some policies get thrown out the door depending on certain situations.

Yes, they were on scene with several OPS guys.

[helicopper 1,050]

Can anyone confirm Airport 7 & 11 on scene? Not trying to call you out PFDRes47cue, it's just not the airport's internal policy to respond off-field (before anyone questions me on this, I'm ARPT11 chauffeur at night). But now you got me wondering because I saw you put them down in the IA, and I know how some policies get thrown out the door depending on certain situations.

As stated one of the CFR trucks was there for a short time but returned to the airport pretty quickly once it was determined where the crash was and that it wouldn't be useful. Pity other resources don't return as quickly when they're not needed.

I understand that is the policy but I've seen them respond to many off-field crashes over the years - all very close to the airport. Given the capabilities of one of those trucks, I personally think it is a good idea to let it go to an off-field crash that is in close proximity. It used to be a part of the airport plan years ago when it was broken up differently than today. There was a section for crash off-site - proximal (or words to that effect).

[firedude 985]

Would this be accurate? Satilite image from google maps.

Also, according to Flightaware, a Cessna 210 departed HPN at 1:05pm.

Flight Plans

Info about possible aircraft

Picture of possible plane

ATC recordings (emmergency declared around 5min in)

Lohud Article

Edited June 18, 2011 by firedude

[StOpGoBlUE 11]

after with pulled in with TL2 and sent the first due crew in which we made the doa discoverys airport 11 left the scene they said there services were not needed , plane was a hastle to get to alot of brush, trees and debris everywere.. it was a horrific scene i never wish that on anybody, cans and indian packs were used to put the fire out due to nature and location it was to far in to stretch a line, i also would like to thank ems for setting up rehab after it was very hot and they did an excellent job with it, thank to all involved and the IC for doin an excellent job

charlie

LT hhhl pcfd

[PFDRes47cue 653]

after with pulled in with TL2 and sent the first due crew in which we made the doa discoverys airport 11 left the scene they said there services were not needed , plane was a hastle to get to alot of brush, trees and debris everywere.. it was a horrific scene i never wish that on anybody, cans and indian packs were used to put the fire out due to nature and location it was to far in to stretch a line, i also would like to thank ems for setting up rehab after it was very hot and they did an excellent job with it, thank to all involved and the IC for doin an excellent job

charlie

LT hhhl pcfd

Out of curiosity, how far from the staging area was the crash site? Also, which EMS agency did the rehab?

[MELILLO719 30]

PFD to your response it was about 300 yards away staging area to crashsite. The staging area was the same we used last year in the aiport drill we did when i pulled up wit tower ladder 2 you could see smoke from distance

[firedude 985]

Lohud Article

WABC Article

CBS 2 Article

Patch Article

[dwcfireman 656]

As stated one of the CFR trucks was there for a short time but returned to the airport pretty quickly once it was determined where the crash was and that it wouldn't be useful. Pity other resources don't return as quickly when they're not needed.

I understand that is the policy but I've seen them respond to many off-field crashes over the years - all very close to the airport. Given the capabilities of one of those trucks, I personally think it is a good idea to let it go to an off-field crash that is in close proximity. It used to be a part of the airport plan years ago when it was broken up differently than today. There was a section for crash off-site - proximal (or words to that effect).

I completely agree with you. The Strikers are self-sufficient, water hauling, monsters with so many capabilities, it is a shame that they don't respond to more incidents off-field. And the airport is more than capable of sending at least one CFR apparatus off site. Note we have 2 Strikers, and we meet the FAA standard for HPN's ARFF index with just 1 truck.

I would love to see more responses to off site incidents, unfortunately there's a bit of red tape in the way.

[aviator70 16]

As stated one of the CFR trucks was there for a short time but returned to the airport pretty quickly once it was determined where the crash was and that it wouldn't be useful. Pity other resources don't return as quickly when they're not needed.

I understand that is the policy but I've seen them respond to many off-field crashes over the years - all very close to the airport. Given the capabilities of one of those trucks, I personally think it is a good idea to let it go to an off-field crash that is in close proximity. It used to be a part of the airport plan years ago when it was broken up differently than today. There was a section for crash off-site - proximal (or words to that effect).

I too worked for Airport Ops many years ago and drove the ARFF trucks. Once those ARFF truicks leave the property, the airport is closed to certain types of operations as air carrier ops require ARFF at the field. They need to get them back in service ASAP to get the airport open again.

[Remember585 815]

Pity other resources don't return as quickly when they're not needed.

Can you elaborate?

[JJB531 652]

Can you elaborate?

I can think of a good example... But after thinking about it, it's not worth the arguement...

Edited June 19, 2011 by JJB531

[dwcfireman 656]

I too worked for Airport Ops many years ago and drove the ARFF trucks. Once those ARFF truicks leave the property, the airport is closed to certain types of operations as air carrier ops require ARFF at the field. They need to get them back in service ASAP to get the airport open again.

Federal Aviation Regulation FAR139 - Certification and Operations: Land Airports Serving Certain Air Carriers

Specifically, 139.315 states the Index of the airport's operational needs for ARFF equipment, in which case Westchester is Index B. The aircraft that decides this for HPN is the Airbus A320, flown by jetBlue at 123' long. FAR 139.317 determines how many pieces of apparatus the airport needs and how much water, foam, and dry-chem the apparatus must carry. Technically, Westchester can remain open to air carrier/airline operations with one of our trucks, thus be capable of allowing a truck to respond off field if necessary. Even with the tactical capabilities of the trucks the airport is still limited to the fact that it only operates a fire brigade, similar to that at the Grasslands Reservation in Valhalla.

Now let's put it this way: If the airport had all 3 vehicles in service at all times, HPN would meet the requirement for the next index up ©. If the airfield was capable of these operations (and it's not) we would see aircraft like the Boeing 757.

The easiest way to this info is http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_139.html , and Subpart D has all the information.

[JM15 386]

Not to start a fight or anything just a serious question that hopefully we can learn from. With this new Trunked system that the county has spent a lot of money on I thought it was to improve interoperability and communications. Chris maybe you can share some knowledge here but I believe it was Batt. 19? was trying to call the county police helicopter to ask for a visual picture and 60 control said that they didn't have the capabilities to communicate. Does the county aviation units have trunked capability? What about other PD agencies? I know that Field Com 1 can patch channels together but that point is mute since they didn't respond right away. Is there any way for ground units to communicate with aviation units prior to FC1's arrival or "grabbing a county police officer"?

[fire2141 33]

Was DEP Hazmat there? I never got the call.

[firedude 985]

Not to start a fight or anything just a serious question that hopefully we can learn from. With this new Trunked system that the county has spent a lot of money on I thought it was to improve interoperability and communications. Chris maybe you can share some knowledge here but I believe it was Batt. 19? was trying to call the county police helicopter to ask for a visual picture and 60 control said that they didn't have the capabilities to communicate. Does the county aviation units have trunked capability? What about other PD agencies? I know that Field Com 1 can patch channels together but that point is mute since they didn't respond right away. Is there any way for ground units to communicate with aviation units prior to FC1's arrival or "grabbing a county police officer"?

Well, you make a good point. Does Air 2 have have trunking capabilities? I think the helicopter does. I know they were downlinking a video feed to their HQ but I do not know if the link was ever sent to IC or FC1. I heard a lot of radio transmitions from the aviation unit on the WC Police freq (155.310). I believe there was radio contact between Air 2 and the airport sergeant (who was at IC).

[firedude 985]

Was DEP Hazmat there? I never got the call.

No, Cause I assume that most of the aviation grade fuel burned and did not reach Rye Lake or seap into the ground.

[Bnechis 3,961]

As stated one of the CFR trucks was there for a short time but returned to the airport pretty quickly once it was determined where the crash was and that it wouldn't be useful. Pity other resources don't return as quickly when they're not needed.

Armonk FD: Car 2021 (IC), Car 2022, Car 2023, Tanker 9, UTV

Chappaqua FD:

Greenwich FD:

Purchase FD: Car 2411, Car 2412, Rescue 30, Utility 10, Engine 238, Engine 240

Hawthorne FD:

Banksville FD: Stand-by in HQ

West Harrison FD: Stand-by in HQ

Port Chester FD: 2393, Tower Ladder 2, Engine 29, Engine 62, Engine 64

Valhalla FD: Car 2482, County Gators

Rye Brook FD: Engine 14 Armonk EMS: 51B3

Westchester EMS: 45-Medic-1

Port Chester-Rye Brook EMS: 77A2

Harrison EMS: 66A4

White Plains EMS:

Greenwich EMS:

WCDES: Car 1, Field Communication 1, EMS Battalion 10, EMS Battalion 11, Fire Battalion 11, Fire Battalion 19

Westchester County PD: Aviation 2, Airport Patrols, Road Patrols, K-9, Intel Sgt.

North Castle PD: ESU, Patrol, Lieutenant, Detectives DEP PD: Patrol, Detectives, Air 6

NYSP Troop K: Patrol Units

HPN OPS: Airport 7, 11 (ARFF Units)

Mount Pleasant PD: Patrol

While I understand that a large commercial airplane will require a major response. This was basicly a mini van that crashed off the road.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Armonk FD: Car 2021 (IC), Car 2022, Car 2023, Tanker 9, UTV

Chappaqua FD:

Greenwich FD:

Purchase FD: Car 2411, Car 2412, Rescue 30, Utility 10, Engine 238, Engine 240

Hawthorne FD:

Banksville FD: Stand-by in HQ

West Harrison FD: Stand-by in HQ

Port Chester FD: 2393, Tower Ladder 2, Engine 29, Engine 62, Engine 64

Valhalla FD: Car 2482, County Gators

Rye Brook FD: Engine 14 Armonk EMS: 51B3

Westchester EMS: 45-Medic-1

Port Chester-Rye Brook EMS: 77A2

Harrison EMS: 66A4

White Plains EMS:

Greenwich EMS:

WCDES: Car 1, Field Communication 1, EMS Battalion 10, EMS Battalion 11, Fire Battalion 11, Fire Battalion 19

Westchester County PD: Aviation 2, Airport Patrols, Road Patrols, K-9, Intel Sgt.

North Castle PD: ESU, Patrol, Lieutenant, Detectives DEP PD: Patrol, Detectives, Air 6

NYSP Troop K: Patrol Units

HPN OPS: Airport 7, 11 (ARFF Units)

Mount Pleasant PD: Patrol

While I understand that a large commercial airplane will require a major response. This was basicly a mini van that crashed off the road.

Whats wrong with filling out the "box" on this call type. What better way to learn then to respond, stage and operate at the real thing? As Aviator70 stated above the reason the Crash rigs went back in service sooner then later may have to do with $$$$.

Edited June 19, 2011 by spin_the_wheel

[Remember585 815]

Not to start a fight or anything just a serious question that hopefully we can learn from. With this new Trunked system that the county has spent a lot of money on I thought it was to improve interoperability and communications. Chris maybe you can share some knowledge here but I believe it was Batt. 19? was trying to call the county police helicopter to ask for a visual picture and 60 control said that they didn't have the capabilities to communicate. Does the county aviation units have trunked capability? What about other PD agencies? I know that Field Com 1 can patch channels together but that point is mute since they didn't respond right away. Is there any way for ground units to communicate with aviation units prior to FC1's arrival or "grabbing a county police officer"?

Of course Helicopper will be the authority on this subject - but last I knew the chopper did not have a Trunking radio. I believe (again, Chris knows better) that trunking radios on aircraft won't work correctly. As for units on the ground contacting the Aviation Unit - they can utilize one of the Fire Ground channels.

If a Unified Command Post is established, a WCPD member could be the POC (Point of Contact) with Aviation, but like I said, they can talk on any of the county's 8 Fire Ground channels so that is your best bet.

Radio communications from ground to air should be done on simplex frequencies.

[ny10570 745]

Whats wrong with filling out the "box" on this call type. What better way to learn then to respond, stage and operate at the real thing? As Aviator70 stated above the reason the Crash rigs went back in service sooner then later may have to do with $$$$.

Thats why we drill. You don't send out the same response for a gas main explosion as you do for an odor of gas just for practice, why is that OK for an aircraft emergency??