The Importance and Potential of The CAN

[x129K 1,393]

I was reading the 2011 FDNY Medal Day awards book, http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/pdf/publications/medal_day/2011/FDNY%20Medal%20Day%202011%20Book%20Final%20June%208%202011.pdf and saw a reoccurring trend, the importance of the Can man in most all of these rescues.

I think it goes without saying that 2.5 gallons of water, in the right hands can have a substantial effect on fires, but for those of us who don't utilize a can regularly, I would love to hear some pointers, tips, and tricks from those of you who do please.

Such as, when holding a fire in a room, where is the best place to direct the stream? Shorts blasts or open it up? Tips on door control, etc.

I know in my area, the can is under utlilized, and I think it is out of fear honestly. Not many IC's or officers are willing to see the can as an effective means of suppression...I usually have a 6 foot hook and a can with me when i go in buildings for alarms, inside smoke, etc...but i KNOW if we roll up on a reported room and contents and I walk up with a PW, I will be told to leave it and take a line...which can create a delay in suppression as I can enter and hold it with the can until a line is stretched by other members.

Don't be afraid to post up, MANY of us do listen and remember, and even sometimes apply.

Thanks.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Bullseye

[antiquefirelt 994]

I usually have a 6 foot hook and a can with me when i go in buildings for alarms, inside smoke, etc...but i KNOW if we roll up on a reported room and contents and I walk up with a PW, I will be told to leave it and take a line...which can create a delay in suppression as I can enter and hold it with the can until a line is stretched by other members.

Some FD's do not allow members to enter ahead of the line on working fires, others only allow senior members or officers to do so given the relative increase in danger. In my dept. if your assignment was on the engine, you'd better not take the can when it's a known job. We stress placement of the first line and being generally short-staffed all hand assigned to the engine must help facilitate the stretch. While "holding" the fire with the can might be a benefit, will the relative holding power be equal to or greater than the added efficiency of you help stretching the all important first line? If you ride the truck it very well be your job to carry the can, and then you must know your limitations and when the can can be of benefit. Sometimes re-closing the door or not opening the door may be a better choice.

So, the only answer I can give you is that you need much more information to make a qualified decision: Your department factors, the structure/occupancy factors and the actual fire factors. Far too much of this job is dynamic for there to be a single right answer. The can is a tool in your arsenal to know, train with and carry for situations where it can be a benefit, short of being adequately familiar it could become a liability and a danger, like so many other tools and tactics.

[antiquefirelt 994]

As an example of the above, and since I pick apart a lot of what I see here:

My crew ran on this reported apartment building fire last week. On arrival, fire out one window on the second floor-side #4 and just starting to take the rear porch door on side #3 just around the 3-4 corner. Entry through side #1 (front) to the common hall door the fire apartment (second floor rear). The conditions in the second floor hall were zero smoke, zero heat, 6 doors. The rear apt. entry door was bubbling and popping with a faint wisp of smoke at the top. The crew could have taken the door immediately attempted to make a search and hold the fire with the can, remembering the fire was out a single window and nearly adjacent door. Instead it was decided that the line would be placed to the door before entry. While the line was stretched the adjacent apartment was searched and found untouched even though it sheared two common walls with the fire apartment. Once the line as in placed the door was forced (also found to be seasonally closed off and not used) the condition in the common hall when to zero visibility and moderate heat at the 2-3 foot level. The line advanced quickly and knocked down the fire with seemingly relative ease. What the crew did not see was that while the stretch was taking place, the fire took the side #3 door and another window on side #3, in two separate rooms and as the door was forced completely lit off the rear porch. The point being, what looked like a fire that the can may have be able to subdue temporarily, likely was not a good candidate. The added volume of air allowed the fire to greatly intensify rapidly and without the 180 gpm line immediately flowing things could have been far different. The end result was things went very well and aside from minor water damage to the unit directly below the fire, only the fire apartment was uninhabitable by the next evening. I can honestly say if it weren't for solid core doors and solid(no holes) lathe and plaster and adequate sheetrock, the outcome would have a bit worse.

BTW for anyone from Elmont LI, the fire was reported by a new Coast Guard kid who used to be a member of EFD L2? Did a nice job alerting residents and giving the Chief a nice report on arrival. I think the USCG Base Commander here is putting up for a commendation with our support.

This was just after arrival.(Side 3)

While crews are making entry (not our ground ladder!)

Just after entry to fire apartment

photos by Rockland FD Photographer Alan Athearn

Edited June 14, 2011 by antiquefirelt

[dwcfireman 656]

antiquefirelt, great post. It's an excellent example of foregoing the can. With this said, I would like to take the opportunity to describe an incident where the can was all we needed:

Called out for a water flow alarm in a commercial building, myself and two firefighters walk up the stairs to the second floor where the flow alarm is coming from. Going into the stairwell we had very little information. A scene size-up showed no signs of fire or damage to the building, and the only alarm on the panel was for a water flow on the second floor. Upon emerging from the stairwell we found a significant amount of water flowing down the hallway. Following it upstream we came across a light smoke condition, and came to an office door where the water and smoke was bellowing. We forced entry into the office where we encountered heavy smoke. Thankfully the cubicles acted as river banks, and we continued to follow the water back to a side room (on the #3 side, fourth floor). Inside this room we found a stack of computers that was burning, but contained by the sprinkler head above. The fire was quickly extinguished with the use of a single dry chem extinguisher.

I tell this story not just to show an example of when the can is going to be effective, but also to reinforce that you need to take the correct extinguisher with you. Residential structures are mostly ordinary combustibles, and a water can is fine. Commercial offices tend to have a lot of computer equipment, so you may want to bring along the CO2 extinguisher or dry chem. Industrial structures get a little trickier, depending on what a particular business manufactures or the service(s) they provide. A dry chem extinguisher is a good choice, but you may also want to consider a class D (metal-X), for instance going into a welding shop, or a class K extinguisher for restaurants. But before you decide what to bring make sure you do a proper size-up. If you have fire blowing out multiple windows, leave the can on the truck. If you arrive with nothing showing, grab the appropriate can.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Simple room and contents fire's in dwellings can generally be held with the can and used in combo with shutting the door to let the steam do its work. Generally in my department, if we're at a low manpower point, if it looks like a room and contents fire and appears that it can be held with a can, it will be attempted to do so as a line is being stretched. "All your problems go away once that fire's out."

Again, every fire is different, and you must understand the limitations of the can's ability, and the fire spread and growth rate already occurring inside the structure. Some times you can extinguish it, sometimes you can hold it in place, and sometimes you need a handline and god's wish to make the push. As Chief stated, do your 360, understand what you're getting into, and select the right tool for the job.

[FFPCogs 863]

For me the Can is taken for two reasons

1) To nip any small or incipient fires in the bud while investigating smells and bells. A Can can work well in dousing smaller fires or at least controlling them until the lines in place and working in the manner in which JohnnyOV explained.

2) And of far more importance the Can is used for the protection of the search team should they become jammed up. Their job isn't to extinquish the fire when it is going, it is to search the premises for victims and locate the fire if possible for the hose team(s). The Can is there to protect the search team should an area begin to light up on them. A series of sprays with finger over the nozzle creating a msity fog will generally disrupt the thermal layer in preflashover conditions just enough to make a hasty retreat, shutting the door behind you. Simply put there is no substiture for a handline in attacking a working fire, expecting a Can to do the job of a handline is foolhardy at best but frankly it's simply dangerous.

Cogs

[16fire5 693]

So many thoughts on this so hopefully this is somewhat followable. The original poster was prompted to ask his questions based off the medal day book. So on that fact I will say this I think it is dangerous for most departments to attempt to operate like the FDNY. We have the ability to put a lot of firefighters on the scene very quickly and probably unparalleled. That combined with strong SOPs that spell out where everyone goes and what they do based on the building type and location of the fire put us in a unique situation. This is in no way a knock on any other department but I think your procedures and risk management need to be based on your staffing, experience level, and what you face. In a majority of cases I believe small departments should concentrate on putting all their initial effort on placing the first line in operation. Even in the case of people trappped unless you know exactly where they are the best course of action may still be to get water on the fire.

As for the can as a truck officer when I enter an apartment prior to the line which is frequently the case when the fire is on the upper floor since the engine will be delayed in the long stretch I usually bring the can firefighter with me and leave the irons firefighter at the door (inside holding the door closed). The can allows us to knock down fire very well. As long as the fire has not flashed over the can will have an impact. The can is very effective at pushing fire back and allowing us to close doors. And in the etreme cases where protection is needed to effect a rescue the can is handy. Passing fire is a very dangerous move and should probably be reserved for known victims.

[16fire5 693]

A series of sprays with finger over the nozzle creating a msity fog will generally disrupt the thermal layer in preflashover conditions just enough to make a hasty retreat, shutting the door behind you. Simply put there is no substiture for a handline in attacking a working fire, expecting a Can to do the job of a handline is foolhardy at best but frankly it's simply dangerous.

Cogs

In this situation I would not cover the nozzle with a finger. The real reason to cover the nozzle is to keep from blowing burning material all over the place at small fires (garbage cans). If you are really trying to prevent flashover is better to direct blasts into the ceiling and let the ceiling break it in the upper thermal layers also your in a bad place.

[antiquefirelt 994]

As a follow up to the above pictures, here are some of the "after pictures".

Interior after the fire

Area of origin in the kitchen

2-3 corner view after the fire

1-4 corner view after the fire

[x129K 1,393]

Great replies so far - thanks!

And no, there is no way i was, or would ever, compare any department to the FDNY, especially up here is the suburbs/rural area we cover. I was just looking to start good conversation on another tool in the cache. So far, so good!

[Remember585 815]

We've conducted some training with live fires at Dutchess, having the crew hold a room with the can and having the line there with them. It's very beneficial to train on it, like everything else. That small amount of water can do quite a bit, removing the heat so the fire keeps in check until a line can snuff it out.

Our most recent fire could have been held with a can until we stretched the line in. I'm with 16fire5 on his advice not to do everything as FDNY does it. We may get "a lot" of guys to a job, but I've long been an advocate that if smoke is showing, the line is going.

[wraftery 1,275]

There's a time and place for eveything. The can will knock down a lot of fire while waiting for a standpipe to be readied and the line stretched. On the other hand, if the fire is showing in 3 windows with signs of extension to the attic, it may be wiser to leave the can on the rig and help pulling the 2 1/2.

Also, Chiefs...don't over-SOP the guys. Give them a little leeway to work their fire. Overly strict SOPs leave the troops no options except for the one you specified. Remember that your SOP was something you dreamed up for what you would do in an imaginary situation. All fires are a little bit different from eachother and the tactics must be flexible to tend to those differences.

"To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven"

A time for the deck gun, a time for he can

A time to break glass, a time for the fan

[mstrang1 213]

Did you just adapt Ecclesiastes to the fire service?

[mstrang1 213]

And now to actually add to the topic. The can is a very important tool, as was stated before. As a minimum, the can does make a good door chock. At its most, it can put out a lot of fire. Or a little fire. I have used the can many times for small waste basket fires, smoldering fires, etc. In Stamford, the can goes on every investigation, unless the call deserves another extinguisher. Usually a water can or two makes it in for every call, with good reason. What may start as a grease fire, electrical fire, etc, will usually start class A materials on fire. If, during the course of investigation you discover a fire, the can is there to keep things in check until the next engine company or your partner can start getting a line in position. If the can get help you shut a door, use short blasts high up to darken the fire enough to close the door.

If you are assigned to the floor above, the can is essential if a handline has not been put in position on your floor. Any embers coming up through void spaces in a balloon frame structure can be held in check this way. Obviously a handline is the best option, but the Can can get there faster and is more agile.

[wraftery 1,275]

Did you just adapt Ecclesiastes to the fire service?

Yes, I did, my brother, but I ran out of rhyme (at least rhyme that I could post). But the Byrds adapted it to rock and roll.

We are an all-hazards service, so almost everything can be applied.

Also, I like your post on can use.

[Mark Z 18]

There's a time and place for eveything. The can will knock down a lot of fire while waiting for a standpipe to be readied and the line stretched. On the other hand, if the fire is showing in 3 windows with signs of extension to the attic, it may be wiser to leave the can on the rig and help pulling the 2 1/2.

Also, Chiefs...don't over-SOP the guys. Give them a little leeway to work their fire. Overly strict SOPs leave the troops no options except for the one you specified. Remember that your SOP was something you dreamed up for what you would do in an imaginary situation. All fires are a little bit different from eachother and the tactics must be flexible to tend to those differences.

"To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven"

A time for the deck gun, a time for he can

A time to break glass, a time for the fan

I think he just DID!

[wraftery 1,275]

As an example of the above, and since I pick apart a lot of what I see here:

My crew ran on this reported apartment building fire last week. On arrival, fire out one window on the second floor-side #4 and just starting to take the rear porch door on side #3 just around the 3-4 corner. Entry through side #1 (front) to the common hall door the fire apartment (second floor rear). The conditions in the second floor hall were zero smoke, zero heat, 6 doors. The rear apt. entry door was bubbling and popping with a faint wisp of smoke at the top. The crew could have taken the door immediately attempted to make a search and hold the fire with the can, remembering the fire was out a single window and nearly adjacent door. Instead it was decided that the line would be placed to the door before entry. While the line was stretched the adjacent apartment was searched and found untouched even though it sheared two common walls with the fire apartment. Once the line as in placed the door was forced (also found to be seasonally closed off and not used) the condition in the common hall when to zero visibility and moderate heat at the 2-3 foot level. The line advanced quickly and knocked down the fire with seemingly relative ease. What the crew did not see was that while the stretch was taking place, the fire took the side #3 door and another window on side #3, in two separate rooms and as the door was forced completely lit off the rear porch. The point being, what looked like a fire that the can may have be able to subdue temporarily, likely was not a good candidate. The added volume of air allowed the fire to greatly intensify rapidly and without the 180 gpm line immediately flowing things could have been far different. The end result was things went very well and aside from minor water damage to the unit directly below the fire, only the fire apartment was uninhabitable by the next evening. I can honestly say if it weren't for solid core doors and solid(no holes) lathe and plaster and adequate sheetrock, the outcome would have a bit worse.

BTW for anyone from Elmont LI, the fire was reported by a new Coast Guard kid who used to be a member of EFD L2? Did a nice job alerting residents and giving the Chief a nice report on arrival. I think the USCG Base Commander here is putting up for a commendation with our support.

Aside from the can, I would like to make just a couple of comments on TL placenemt. . I don't like it when guys look at one picture and commence to nit-pick it to the finest detail so please take my comments as general points and not throwing stones at the picture. Not being able to but one side of the rig there may be many reasons for him to position his rig here. He positioned his turntable at a corner of the bldg. Good move...he has doubled hid scrub area and can get to Sides B and C. A little too close to the building. Collapse, radiant heat are 2 factors, But standing off by 25 to 30 ft allows you to move your boom more effectively. Again, the operator may not have ahd this luxury and had to take what was dealt him.

And one more comment: plese don't refer to that responder as the "new Coast Guard kid" any more. He's a Coast Guardsman and stopped being a kid at about the second week of boot camp. I know you meant it as a compliment, but came out the wrong way. Thanks.

This was just after arrival.(Side 3)

While crews are making entry (not our ground ladder!)

Just after entry to fire apartment

photos by Rockland FD Photographer Alan Athearn

[antiquefirelt 994]

"Aside from the can, I would like to make just a couple of comments on TL placenemt. . I don't like it when guys look at one picture and commence to nit-pick it to the finest detail so please take my comments as general points and not throwing stones at the picture. Not being able to but one side of the rig there may be many reasons for him to position his rig here. He positioned his turntable at a corner of the bldg. Good move...he has doubled hid scrub area and can get to Sides B and C. A little too close to the building. Collapse, radiant heat are 2 factors, But standing off by 25 to 30 ft allows you to move your boom more effectively. Again, the operator may not have ahd this luxury and had to take what was dealt him."

I'll take my lumps, no doubt we always learn something from every job. The tower ended up in what the Chief thought was the only position given the power lines fronting side #1. The position it took was kinda the only other shot. In general we weren't pleased given the real exposure was on the far side of the fire building, but given the rapid knockdown it ended up being perfect. Leaving my seat I'd anticipated losing the top floor given the age of the building and my general characterization of the tenants and area. Low and behold the building had intact lather and plaster walls, closed solid core doors, a fairly accessible common hallway and an truly empty attic. The proximity of the tower to the building did get early attention as the radiant heat was pretty decent. A handline was stretched to cool ex.4 and kill the porch fire itself. In the end the bucket did go up to work the extension in the gable trim, but with a little luck on our side we didn't need any more than handlines.

My crew had actually set up the tower to shoot the alley between side 4 and exposure 4 about four years ago after a nearby 3 a.m. fire alarm run. Given the power lines running along the building side of the street we wanted to see if we could place the turntable close enough to make the alley and found we could get to the second floor windows, but not the roof. Of course the leeway to make the alley was pretty small.

"And one more comment: plese don't refer to that responder as the "new Coast Guard kid" any more. He's a Coast Guardsman and stopped being a kid at about the second week of boot camp. I know you meant it as a compliment, but came out the wrong way. Thanks."

Good point, you're right I certainly didn't meet if offensively. We've been very fortunate to have two excellent volunteer members from the USCG as members of our call division, and it sound like this new Coast Guardsman from Elmont may come join while he's stationed in town here. In all we've had a great relationship with the base and boats from the CG. But, young men they are, just like we all were once. Last summer after an early morning run as we sat in our dayroom watching the tube, I heard voices out back and watched two males exit a car leaving the female driver waiting in our back parking lot. They weren't really too quiet and a couple of us went out back to see what they were up to, and at first couldn't find them, until we looked up the 80 ft.Verizon cell tower attached to our building. There they were, two CG guys climbing the tower with a video camera. They came right down on command and instead of running off stood right there and manned up and apologized up and down and were very respectful and decent, especially as drunk as they were. We ensured the female driver was sober and sent them off. Luckily it was one of those "no harm no foul, you'd better smarten up before you get hurt" moments.

Edited June 18, 2011 by antiquefirelt

[wraftery 1,275]

"Aside from the can, I would like to make just a couple of comments on TL placenemt. . I don't like it when guys look at one picture and commence to nit-pick it to the finest detail so please take my comments as general points and not throwing stones at the picture. Not being able to but one side of the rig there may be many reasons for him to position his rig here. He positioned his turntable at a corner of the bldg. Good move...he has doubled hid scrub area and can get to Sides B and C. A little too close to the building. Collapse, radiant heat are 2 factors, But standing off by 25 to 30 ft allows you to move your boom more effectively. Again, the operator may not have ahd this luxury and had to take what was dealt him."

I'll take my lumps, no doubt we always learn something from every job. The tower ended up in what the Chief thought was the only position given the power lines fronting side #1. The position it took was kinda the only other shot. In general we weren't pleased given the real exposure was on the far side of the fire building, but given the rapid knockdown it ended up being perfect. Leaving my seat I'd anticipated losing the top floor given the age of the building and my general characterization of the tenants and area. Low and behold the building had intact lather and plaster walls, closed solid core doors, a fairly accessible common hallway and an truly empty attic. The proximity of the tower to the building did get early attention as the radiant heat was pretty decent. A handline was stretched to cool ex.4 and kill the porch fire itself. In the end the bucket did go up to work the extension in the gable trim, but with a little luck on our side we didn't need any more than handlines.

My crew had actually set up the tower to shoot the alley between side 4 and exposure 4 about four years ago after a nearby 3 a.m. fire alarm run. Given the power lines running along the building side of the street we wanted to see if we could place the turntable close enough to make the alley and found we could get to the second floor windows, but not the roof. Of course the leeway to make the alley was pretty small.

"And one more comment: plese don't refer to that responder as the "new Coast Guard kid" any more. He's a Coast Guardsman and stopped being a kid at about the second week of boot camp. I know you meant it as a compliment, but came out the wrong way. Thanks."

Good point, you're right I certainly didn't meet if offensively. We've been very fortunate to have two excellent volunteer members from the USCG as members of our call division, and it sound like this new Coast Guardsman from Elmont may come join while he's stationed in town here. In all we've had a great relationship with the base and boats from the CG. But, young men they are, just like we all were once. Last summer after an early morning run as we sat in our dayroom watching the tube, I heard voices out back and watched two males exit a car leaving the female driver waiting in our back parking lot. They weren't really too quiet and a couple of us went out back to see what they were up to, and at first couldn't find them, until we looked up the 80 ft.Verizon cell tower attached to our building. There they were, two CG guys climbing the tower with a video camera. They came right down on command and instead of running off stood right there and manned up and apologized up and down and were very respectful and decent, especially as drunk as they were. We ensured the female driver was sober and sent them off. Luckily it was one of those "no harm no foul, you'd better smarten up before you get hurt" moments.

I wasn't criticizing your job. I saw the wires, trees, narrow alley, and thought it was a good picture to illustrate positioning. Luckily, lettering on rigs is glued on and not painted. If the radiant heat gets your rig, the first thing to melt away is the lettering. That way, when you drive it to the paint shop, your dept name is gone and nobody will know who screwed up.

Also: The Navy has no height requirement, but you have to be over 6ft tall to get in the USCG. That way if your ship sinks, you can walk back to shore.

[Fireman488 57]

We add 8 ounces of Class A foam to our cans. More bang for the buck!!!

[antiquefirelt 994]

I wasn't criticizing your job. I saw the wires, trees, narrow alley, and thought it was a good picture to illustrate positioning. Luckily, lettering on rigs is glued on and not painted. If the radiant heat gets your rig, the first thing to melt away is the lettering. That way, when you drive it to the paint shop, your dept name is gone and nobody will know who screwed up.

No harm done, just explaining some of the decisions and factors that affected them. While this one went better than expected there are always a few things that could be done better, though I doubt we could've had a better end result.As for melting lettering and decals:

This one caused the following:

Someone ended up not being able to sit down for a month :angry: after order a line into the aerial directly off a hydrant back in 2004.

Edited June 18, 2011 by antiquefirelt