NYS Tax Cap?

[x635 4,066]

So, what is this NYS Tax cap I'm hearing about? Will it affect emergency services?

[ladderthebuilding 2]

So, what is this NYS Tax cap I'm hearing about? Will it affect emergency services?

Well I guess, once this passes villages, towns and counties in NY will no longer be able to survive. Everyone thinks this is a great idea, not raising taxes. Which of course keeping more money in your pocket is allways good, but people don't realize what is about to happen to them. Lets say a village has a 7 percent tax increase. Lets also say 5 percent is a tax increase due to un funded mandates by the state.... What is the village to do if they can only raises taxes by 2 percent? First: your pd goes, next your dpw/water does, then goodbye village. Oh and your FD too..Either paided or Volley. Then once the village is gone a town will take them over.. But what about the services the village just lost? Will the town pick it up? How can they if they can't raise taxes above 2 percent.

Just like the last bill passed in albany to try and consoladate which is not doing what it is inteded, however it costs local governments more money because of the rules. If people are up in arms about reduction in services, wait till this pases and goes through. It's not a reduction, its a gone good bye.... The people up in Albany are afraid to say no becuase in the next election they are afraid of the opposition saying they are for increasing taxes. I guess they are more worried about keeping their jobs vs doing the right thing. You want to lower taxes, get rid of the unfunded mandates.

Edited May 19, 2011 by ladderthebuilding

[tglass59 27]

NO TAXES = NO SERVICES

TOTALLY AGAINST ANY TAX CAP ON THE STATE, COUNTY, OR LOCAL LEVEL.

COME ON LABOR WAKE UP, WHAT GOOD IS IT IF THEY CAN ONLY RAISE TAXES 2%, IF YOU JUST GOT LAID OFF BECAUSE THEY CAN ONLY RAISE TAXES 2%.

[Bnechis 3,961]

So, what is this NYS Tax cap I'm hearing about? Will it affect emergency services?

It will destroy all services in every community.

The smaller the community and the smaller its budget base the worst they will get hit. The Gov. wants this to reduce the overall property tax load, but the schools which take up 60%-80% of the local property tax will see the lowest effect. Schools will cut afterschool programs, sports and music/art and bussing which affect students and in many communities will place additional burdens on police.

In the villages they will have to cut something, what do you cut the police dept that runs 1 officer on the desk, 2 on the road and a sgt or the VFD (or combo dept with 3 FF's on duty) or do you cut the 6 man highway dept and stop collecting garbage.

Special districts like Fire Districts get hurt the worst. I looked at the calculations for a couple of small VFD's and a couple of small tomedium size combo depts and they are in real danger if this happens. In the combo depts. they will need to reduce the minimum manning by 1 position every year until the cap is lifted. So if the dept is running with 10 onduty this year, next year its 9, the year after its 8 and so on. In one small VFD with an annual budget of less than $850,000 they will not be able to meet the certiorari and the bond obligation. If the town has not done a recent reassesment (which can cost millions) the FD has to give back more money than the tax cap allows them to compensate for. In addition state law requires that the 1st thing after certiorari that is paid are bonds. In one dept the only way to pay the bonds for firehouse reconstruction and a new engine (that the voters approved) is to sell the engine.

What the gov. fails to acknowledge is what is the cost of cutting. In addition to the loss of service. Insurance rates will go up, and other services will be dropped requiring the use of fee's or privatization to offset any savings. In New Rochelle we had a state mandated tax cap for 15 years (starting in the early 1990's) and the only way to save services was the city added a household garbage fee. So everyones taxes dropped by $250 but you paid a $250 fee that is not tax deductable on state and federal income tax. so you paid the same amount for the service, but got taxed on the fee. The city also considered closing a fire station and laying off 16 ff's to save $1m but that would raise insurance premiums by $12m. The other thing the tax cap does is it destroys the communities bond rating, which means the interest rate goes up on its bonds and may prevent it from getting loans for capital improvements. After 15 years of not doing capital projects due to a tax cap, NR found itself needing $200 million in infrastructure work, including storm and sanitary line replacement, road replacement, fire station replacement, apparatus replacement, snow removal equipment, roof work on many city buildings, etc.

Myself and some others have been warning that this was comming (it is included in the consolidation plan for the career depts written in 2009) and it would wipe out depts. Consolidation will help and if you look carefully at what has gone on in Calif. since prop 13 (property tax cap) was passed many depts have merged or establised joint authorities. We truly need to change the way we do things in NYS, but this is not the way to do it.

The newly increased hydrant fee's that NYS has allowed united water to charge New Rochelle, Eastchester, Pelham, Pelham Manor, and greenburgh (including some if not all of the villages) is more than the tax cap, so we will all need to cut emergency services to pay for fire hydrants.

The tax cap will force consolidation, because many FD's , and PD's are going to be elliminated due to lack of funds.

[64FFMJK 21]

Wow so all the other states in the country with a 2% tax cap must be really screwed up by now. Oh wait nope they are doing 10 times better then NY because it made the Politicians be FINANCIALY RESPONSABLE

[kinkchaser1 0]

It's funny the New York State Government voted the worst governmental body in the Nation by it's peers,now wants to tell municipalities how to govern. The City of New Rochelle had a tax cap for years imposed by an NYS Assemeblyman in order to get a 1% Sales tax. It killed agencies like the FD, positions were lost and Citywide the infrastructure suffered. Now did New Ro survive , fees started to appear, a garbage collection fee and others even more significant, so what money did the taxpayer save, services went down, things started to crumble and money was coming out of their pocket in a different form, by the way not a in a form that is tax deductable.

Right now communities have tax rebates awarded to property owners well in excess of the proposed property tax, so how does that work, you open the fiscal year at a loss.

In today's paper the Siena Poll claims 71 % of New Yorkers are in favor of a 2% tax cap.

In order to make this a non disaster, a strong core of tax cap excemptions will have to included, state mandate pension raises,mandated health costs increases and mandates in general.

[ladderthebuilding 2]

Wow so all the other states in the country with a 2% tax cap must be really screwed up by now. Oh wait nope they are doing 10 times better then NY because it made the Politicians be FINANCIALY RESPONSABLE

Which states? What is their make up? Are they similar to NY? Look Cal. with prop 13 and look at the state they are in. NY's Unfunded Mandates for Pensions and Healthcare costs are among the many unfunded mandates that are applied to local govt. In NY Local Govts have to fund unions pensions at 100% where the rest of the country does not. You can't place these burndens on local gov and the tie their hands. But this is being done intentially. Don't forget NY Passed the consolidation law a year or two ago to get rid of villages, special districts and so on. I think maybe one or two did this in the state? Not much more. The ones that were forced to look into and did not do it, it cost them big tax payer dollars to fund the research only to find it didn't do anything for them in savings.

The GOV doesn't want villages, districts and other local governments... Just NY STATE. If this thing passes, he might just get his way. And our elected leaders don't have the you know what to say no becuase they are afraid of being called a tax increaser in their next elections.

[PEMO3 523]

The NYS Tax Cap Legislation relates to school district and their blank check mentality. "The New York State Senate today passed property tax relief legislation (S.2706) that would place a cap on the growth of school property taxes at two percent or the Consumer Price Index (CPI), whichever is less. If enacted, New York would become the 44^th state to cap local property taxes. In addition, the Senate approved two measures related to providing mandate relief to school districts and local governments." (http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/senate-passes-property-tax-cap-legislation).

I agree 110% with the Tax Cap legislation as school district have always put forth growing budgets for votes and include a vailed threat to the community "If the budget fails we will institute an austerity budget" in effect saying "vote the budget down and your kids will suffer as we will remove extra activities including but not limited to sports and after school activities". The austerity budget by law can be an increase equal to the CPI or 4%, which ever is lower and taxes can still rise. Never do school district attempt to do more with less or even the same. They do this while many of their Superintendents make more than the Governor and have golden parachute clauses in their contracts. It is about time someone said enough and put measures in place that will demand fiscal management and a look at cut that do not effect students. Lets face it, we have school with 3 or 4 vice principals, district offices where the secretaries have secretaries and many are administratively top heavy. Are pension costs a burden, without a doubt but to jump all over those who have the pensions is not fair either. Two sides agreed on those contracts and now one is having "buyer's remorse".

Just my opinion.

[ladderthebuilding 2]

The NYS Tax Cap Legislation relates to school district and their blank check mentality. "The New York State Senate today passed property tax relief legislation (S.2706) that would place a cap on the growth of school property taxes at two percent or the Consumer Price Index (CPI), whichever is less. If enacted, New York would become the 44^th state to cap local property taxes. In addition, the Senate approved two measures related to providing mandate relief to school districts and local governments." (http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/senate-passes-property-tax-cap-legislation).

I agree 110% with the Tax Cap legislation as school district have always put forth growing budgets for votes and include a vailed threat to the community "If the budget fails we will institute an austerity budget" in effect saying "vote the budget down and your kids will suffer as we will remove extra activities including but not limited to sports and after school activities". The austerity budget by law can be an increase equal to the CPI or 4%, which ever is lower and taxes can still rise. Never do school district attempt to do more with less or even the same. They do this while many of their Superintendents make more than the Governor and have golden parachute clauses in their contracts. It is about time someone said enough and put measures in place that will demand fiscal management and a look at cut that do not effect students. Lets face it, we have school with 3 or 4 vice principals, district offices where the secretaries have secretaries and many are administratively top heavy. Are pension costs a burden, without a doubt but to jump all over those who have the pensions is not fair either. Two sides agreed on those contracts and now one is having "buyer's remorse".

Just my opinion.

"The bill also provides for the same cap to apply to taxes levied by municipal governments. Local governments that do not levy an amount up to the cap in one year can rollover that amount up to 1.5 percent in the following year." Per the weblink above

[helicopper 1,050]

Which states? What is their make up? Are they similar to NY? Look Cal. with prop 13 and look at the state they are in. NY's Unfunded Mandates for Pensions and Healthcare costs are among the many unfunded mandates that are applied to local govt. In NY Local Govts have to fund unions pensions at 100% where the rest of the country does not. You can't place these burndens on local gov and the tie their hands. But this is being done intentially. Don't forget NY Passed the consolidation law a year or two ago to get rid of villages, special districts and so on. I think maybe one or two did this in the state? Not much more. The ones that were forced to look into and did not do it, it cost them big tax payer dollars to fund the research only to find it didn't do anything for them in savings.

The GOV doesn't want villages, districts and other local governments... Just NY STATE. If this thing passes, he might just get his way. And our elected leaders don't have the you know what to say no becuase they are afraid of being called a tax increaser in their next elections.

How are pension programs unfunded mandates? Local communities are paying into the pension program for their employees and for years enjoyed no contributions to the program when the economy was more robust. Now that the economy is suffering, the locals pay into the pension program for their employees.

As for healthcare, if you're referring to employee benefits that is not a state mandate nor is it unfunded. It is funded by the local community, again for its employees, so I'm not clear on your comments above.

The bottom line is that Westchester County doesn't need 150 separate and distinct taxing entities so consolidation will benefit the taxpayer and in almost every case benefit the agency or entities involved so I have to ask you to substantiate your claim that it isn't justified/justifiable.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Hopefully this tax cap will force communities to take a look at how much money they are wasting and start to fix it. For too many years, governments in New York have continued to spend money just to justify their existence.

[64FFMJK 21]

Which states? What is their make up? Are they similar to NY?

Colorado passed a Tax amendment in 94 or 95 that mandates any tax increase over a certain percent had to on the ballot for the general election for the state.

This includes all taxes

Are they like NY HELL NOthey have a much better economy, lower cost of living and and are increasing services to the communities and new Counties and towns have formed in the last few years that are thriving

[rockl3 1]

how come no pollever wants to cut ny entitillment programs that r the most generous than any in the country we pay more for medicare and medicade then texas and cali combined

[SOUSGT 357]

Colorado passed a Tax amendment in 94 or 95 that mandates any tax increase over a certain percent had to on the ballot for the general election for the state.

This includes all taxes

Are they like NY HELL NOthey have a much better economy, lower cost of living and and are increasing services to the communities and new Counties and towns have formed in the last few years that are thriving

One of the reasons they have a thriving economy is that they do not have the high cost of living that we enjoy in NY. Property taxes have increased nearly 100% in the last 12 years alone. the money that we spend on government is insane. Granted the biggest part of the tax bill is the school and County taxes. Funny thing is the town provides the most services and has the lowest part of the tax bill.

I was reading a paper in Connecticut in March and there was a story about the annual school budget for a town. The schools superintendent reported that the vote failed to over ride the cap increase. so the tax increase would be limited

to (I don't remember the amount but I believe it was around 2-3%). I don't know if this is statewide or a limit put on by that town. The superintendent then said something I never thought I would hear from an educator. He didn't rant how the children would suffer. They would all flunk out or the schools would crumble, but he said " I guess we will have to learn to live within our means".

While we are on the subject of Connecticut, a similar house pays half the taxes (even when you include the personal property tax) that we do in NY. Most towns in Connecticut seem to be doing OK (or at least have the same issues that we do).

Maybe some of the guys in Connecticut could comment on this? I know the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but the way we are taxed in NY they tax the grass also!

[64FFMJK 21]

One of the reasons they have a thriving economy is that they do not have the high cost of living that we enjoy in NY. Property taxes have increased nearly 100% in the last 12 years alone. the money that we spend on government is insane. Granted the biggest part of the tax bill is the school and County taxes. Funny thing is the town provides the most services and has the lowest part of the tax bill.

Actuly the main problem in NYS is the largest employer in the state WELFARE!

[helicopper 1,050]

Actuly the main problem in NYS is the largest employer in the state WELFARE!

School taxes are by far the largest portion of the tax bill (generally between 65-75%) and the rest is municipal taxes. Keep in mind that your county taxes include all the mandates from the State like Medicaid and other things. If you factor in the unfunded state mandates that are pushed down to our county taxes and state income taxes that fund the state bureaucracy and our state taxes may rival school taxes.

In past years the Department of Social Services (welfare, Medicaid, etc., etc.) was two thirds of the County's budget. Start cutting back those programs and we'll actually see some tax relief.

Hey, what's up with school contingency budgets? I was reading a few and the proposed budget was identical to the austerity/contigency budget that they'd have to adopt if the proposed budget was voted down. If it's the same why do we both voting on them at all?

[SOUSGT 357]

how come no pollever wants to cut ny entitillment programs that r the most generous than any in the country we pay more for medicare and medicade then texas and cali combined

If the laws were changed to require that all entitlements or madates had to paid for by the body that approves it, You would see programs more in line with other states. State and Federal legislators can approve what ever would get them elected as they don't have to figure out how to pay for it. Its called pandering for votes. In NY the government has the perfect storm for taxes. The state legslators pass a law to help out a group of people. they dont have to fund it so they can campaign on a platform that shows they care about their constituents. The County legislators campaign on the fact that "we had no choice to raise taxes, its those dam unfunded mandates".

In states without county government the state legislators have no one to mandate. Towns cant raise the kind of money required for social programs so the state has to fund all the programs. No legislator wants to be known as the guy who raises taxes.

Maybe its time for the Local and County officials stand up to the State and say enough. Your generosity is bankrupting us. You want us to limit our taxing ability yet you keep jamming costs down our throats. Yea right. who am I kidding.

I do believe the cap is coming, our beloved legislator had better have a plan or it will get mighty interesting.

[PEMO3 523]

Another big issue with school taxes is that everyone from homeowners to section 8 apartment dwellers are allowed to vote. While homeowners may vote for a more fiscally sound budget with a lower tax rate increase an apartment dweller will vote "yes" since they are not effected by the increases. It would be if different ballgame if only those who actually pay the taxes got to vote yes or no on the budget and increase. Look at places like Bronxville and Scaresdale where there is a low burden of non-taxpayers voting, they are more careful putting forth a large budget and increase.

[INIT915 1,119]

Another big issue with school taxes is that everyone from homeowners to section 8 apartment dwellers are allowed to vote. While homeowners may vote for a more fiscally sound budget with a lower tax rate increase an apartment dweller will vote "yes" since they are not effected by the increases. It would be if different ballgame if only those who actually pay the taxes got to vote yes or no on the budget and increase. Look at places like Bronxville and Scaresdale where there is a low burden of non-taxpayers voting, they are more careful putting forth a large budget and increase.

Wouldn't renters be indirectly affected as significant changes in the tax levy on the property owner would undoubtedly translate into rent increases?

[64FFMJK 21]

School taxes are by far the largest portion of the tax bill (generally between 65-75%) and the rest is municipal taxes. Keep in mind that your county taxes include all the mandates from the State like Medicaid and other things. If you factor in the unfunded state mandates that are pushed down to our county taxes and state income taxes that fund the state bureaucracy and our state taxes may rival school taxes.

In past years the Department of Social Services (welfare, Medicaid, etc., etc.) was two thirds of the County's budget. Start cutting back those programs and we'll actually see some tax relief.

Hey, what's up with school contingency budgets? I was reading a few and the proposed budget was identical to the austerity/contigency budget that they'd have to adopt if the proposed budget was voted down. If it's the same why do we both voting on them at all?

True but all of the welfare money could be used to offset the costs of other programs such as fire, police and education.

What about all the lotto cash that goes to the Schools??????? Maybe if they spent less on stupid ads then the schools would get more money from them.

Edited May 21, 2011 by 64FFMJK

[Monty 35]

Hey, what's up with school contingency budgets? I was reading a few and the proposed budget was identical to the austerity/contigency budget that they'd have to adopt if the proposed budget was voted down. If it's the same why do we both voting on them at all?

Probably the biggest issue with contingency budgets is that big brother - sorry the State, dictates the way the money can be spent. For instance, only emergency building repairs can be done - no improvements, it also effects to some extent community use of facilities - AYSO, Boy / Girl Scouts, Little League. There's probably a whole bunch of other restrictions but bascially it's taking the control out of the local boards hands.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Anyone in favor of a tax cap better take a long hard look at California and the troubles they have. Much the benefit of a proposition approved by voters.

[ladderthebuilding 2]

Here's what i want to ask: How come union members are not speaking out against this? Isn't this going to hurt union Fire/Police/DPW members? If this actually passes their going to be slashes like we have never seen.

[INIT915 1,119]

Here's what i want to ask: How come union members are not speaking out against this? Isn't this going to hurt union Fire/Police/DPW members? If this actually passes their going to be slashes like we have never seen.

I don't think salaries will be slashed, rather, limited in terms of further increases. And don't forget, this is not a clear cut issue. I suspect you have some union members being taxed to the point that they also are open to changes in the system. I don't think it's an all or nothing approach.