Monsey Fire shuts down the siren.......

[notch138 7]

Very poor idea by the Board of Fire Commissioners. The next thing is people are going to complain about there fire insurance rates jumping by about $300 or more, and the lack of members responding, I know that I have relied on the siren a lot over my 12yrs in the fire service.

Fire siren silenced in Monsey; volunteers worried

[INIT915 1,119]

Very poor idea by the Board of Fire Commissioners. The next thing is people are going to complain about there fire insurance rates jumping by about $300 or more, and the lack of members responding, I know that I have relied on the siren a lot over my 12yrs in the fire service.

Fire siren silenced in Monsey; volunteers worried

I have to respectfully disagree. In this age of modern communications, I think the sirens are a thing of the past. If they were so necessary, why would career FD's and PD agencies not "need" them? If you need "two forms of notification", your pager and cell phone text message should suffice. The siren may be a tradition, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking it's the only way to get the job done.

[peterose313 345]

I agree with INIT. I think the siren, while it may be nice to have for the public, is a thing of the past. More and more departments are investing in pagers for all the members. In some places, your pager will go off before the tones do anyways so by the time the siren goes off, you're already responding.

[jr51070 7]

Most Southern Westchester Departments stopped using them years ago.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Not used in Port Chester for 15 years or more.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I do not think horns/sirens/bells, etc make that big of a difference in regards to personnel numbers. However, I have heard citizens say that they think the siren serves one big purpose. When they are driving in town and they hear the horn go off, they look around more cautiously anticipating the responding volunteers or FD apparatus. They also see someone coming with a blue light and no their is actually a call because they heard the horn go off.

Anyways, as far as being notified of a call, pagers/radios do a fine job.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

I do not think horns/sirens/bells, etc make that big of a difference in regards to personnel numbers. However, I have heard citizens say that they think the siren serves one big purpose. When they are driving in town and they hear the horn go off, they look around more cautiously anticipating the responding volunteers or FD apparatus. They also see someone coming with a blue light and no their is actually a call because they heard the horn go off.

Anyways, as far as being notified of a call, pagers/radios do a fine job.

I heard this one before.... if they cant hear the federal Q 50 feet away, what makes you think that they can hear the bell/whistle/siren a mile or two away ?

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I heard this one before.... if they cant hear the federal Q 50 feet away, what makes you think that they can hear the bell/whistle/siren a mile or two away ?

You are right. Deaf is deaf but for those who do hear it go off and also hear the Q have some extra warning. 5+ minutes rather than 30 seconds.

[BFD1054 1,552]

I too have to respectfully disagree that this was a bad move. I know many members, especially the older guys, who like having the siren/whistle/horn. However, as most have said, they are not neccisary with our current pagers and texting systems.

I was a dispatcher for a certain Fire District and one instance always comes to mind. I sounded the pagers for an alarm, but for whatever reason, i didnt trip the house siren. After i sent out the dispatch, a member alerted the District Nextel asking me why i didnt sound the siren. I simply asked "how did you know there was a call?" To which he replied "because my pager went off." Lets just say that was the end of that conversation.

Just earlier today, there were a bunch of us at my Firehouse after a call. While there, the pagers and Siren alerted for a another call. Because of the siren, none of us could hear the dispatch information. Our Assistant Chief had to get into his car and shut the doors/windows so that he could contact Orange 911. Theres also been pther times that ive been at the firehouse and couldnt hear info being given because of the Siren.

I just think that in this day and age, they are no longer needed 99.9% of the time.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I have to respectfully disagree. In this age of modern communications, I think the sirens are a thing of the past. If they were so necessary, why would career FD's and PD agencies not "need" them? If you need "two forms of notification", your pager and cell phone text message should suffice. The siren may be a tradition, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking it's the only way to get the job done.

ISO does not accept cell phone text messages as a notification.

I have recieved notifications long after I was on-scene.

[IzzyEng4 427]

The last Big East Coast power outage, my city's Gamewell system (with horns and sirens conected) were a big help since many people do not even own a standard phone with a cord. No power to thier cordless phones and all the cell towers were off line. We responded to 10 calls with 2 of them being workers. Granted our stations were staffed by members duing the outage, it still alerted the other members who didn't have Minitors or Plectrons at the time.

Unfortunately the problem that all cities face is utilizing a 100+ year old system that is guaranteed to work versus the cost of trying to maintain it.

The only problem that I have with the public is with those who complain that the sirens / horns are too loud but yet they'll buy thier kid a $1000 stereo system for thier car and you can hear them 2 towns away.

[JM15 386]

Our siren only sounds for reported fires in recent years. In this day and age I assume most depts supply pagers to its members and with the new text messaging (while it isn't perfect) I have to agree that the sirens are kind of out dated. It seems like it is just making a public relations problem and isn't really worth it.

[SOUSGT 357]

[Our siren only sounds for reported fires in recent years. In this day and age I assume most depts supply pagers to its members and with the new text messaging (while it isn't perfect) I have to agree that the sirens are kind of out dated. It seems like it is just making a public relations problem and isn't really worth it.

My department has had sirens and a horns for 60 years. The sirens are gone but we still use a horn although greatly reduced. As is the case with any electronic radio, the pagers are subject to failure:.

There have been a number of failures over the years. The issues resulted from single unit failures (someone in the family turned the pager off, the battery died because the pager wasn't seated properly or the pager was in a "dead spot") to department wide transmission problems. Members responded to the calls asking what wasn't the call toned out? fortunately the horn woke them up. Until departments transition to an implanted, nuclear powered, two way pager that confirms message delivery with an automatic redundant notification system, the horns/sirens are a valuable back up.

Also what is next: The mechanical siren wakes up my kids, can you muffle it or wait until you are three blocks away before you use it. Can you limit the air horns to daytime use, Do you really need those sirens on the trucks, cant you use the horn or bell instead?

Edited May 9, 2011 by SOUSGT

[x635 4,066]

\ However, I have heard citizens say that they think the siren serves one big purpose. When they are driving in town and they hear the horn go off, they look around more cautiously anticipating the responding volunteers or FD apparatus. They also see someone coming with a blue light and no their is actually a call because they heard the horn go off.

Yeah, maybe in the early 1900's when people actually cared about their communities.

It was also touted to be good for members working on their yards that couldn't hear or carry pagers, etc.

I remember responding to several calls that I only heard the Klaxon (yes, Klaxon) for because my pager wasn't with me. I also remember being an overjoyed schoolkid when that Klaxon would sound two blasts at 7AM, signaling a snow day!

I also remember dispatching certain Westchester departments, and only being able to sound the siren at certain times for certain reasons.

But nowadays, I don't think it's an efficient technology for alerting, but a good one for backup (power failures, etc).

[rfdu39 89]

The people who are complaining are those who most likely moved to these communities in recent years. A person who has lived in these communties their entire lives would not complain because they were used to it. People need to learn to get used to the horns and sirens and not demand that they be turned off.

[chris498 31]

I think turning the horn/siren off was a mistake as well. In a time when more and more people moving into the suburbs have no interest in the fire department until they are needed it is a good friendly reminder that the fire department exists! The people who complain are usually saying what an inconvenience it is for them. Ironically, it's these same people who can't be inconvenienced to drop what they are doing, golf, yard work - sorry - paying someone to do yard work, leave work, leave their kids, miss dinner, church, or whatever it is they deem so important to not go help a neighbor or stranger in need. I agree with rfdu39. These horns and sirens continue to serve a vital purpose in alerting volunteers that there is an emergency. They have sounded in town for years. Nobody - that I have ever heard of - died because they heard the fire whistle go off. People need to learn to get used to them and stop worrying about their perfect little existances being bothered.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

A member of this site, and good friend once told me that someone approached her FD about the horn. The annoyed citizen said the horn going off at night was preventing the citizen from getting pregnant. (THIS IS NOT A JOKE...TRUE STORY!)

[16fire5 693]

ISO does not accept cell phone text messages as a notification.

I have recieved notifications long after I was on-scene.

Being the resident expert you advise you clients to mantain their siren for ISO purposes?

[gamewell45 258]

I have to respectfully disagree. In this age of modern communications, I think the sirens are a thing of the past. If they were so necessary, why would career FD's and PD agencies not "need" them? If you need "two forms of notification", your pager and cell phone text message should suffice. The siren may be a tradition, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking it's the only way to get the job done.

That's assuming of course that one has access to a cellphone. While its not the only way to get the job done, the siren is a back-up in case the paging system goes out or if the person is outside and his/her pager is inside their house in the charger. I think in this case redundancy is a good thing.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Being the resident expert you advise you clients to mantain their siren for ISO purposes?

If they want to maintain the points...yes. At the same time I suggest they look at the policy on when it is used. ISO does not require it for all calls (or any for that matter) as long as its periodically tested and can be used as a backup if the primary system fails.

[Chief21 8]

I have to disagree to agree with all parties here. First off we are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to professional and volunteer agencies. Professional agencies are in quaters on shift, so why do you need a siren when you are already in house. For the volees it has pros and cons being they are not always in house.

Yes we have unlimited communications, i.e. Minitor Pagers (with repeaters so even if you miss the original page you can play it again), text messaging (from the county - but may come at dispatch or hours later, "don't you feel stupid when you rush to the sation after getting a text that is an hour old), Text messaging for large incidents (1st Responder Network), Emails, Scanners, Mobile Radios, Portable Radios.

But what happens when a mechanical issue, outside on a nice day mowing, or Storms? I have been outside doing work and did not her the pager, but I sure hear the siren. Then say a storm knocks out the repeater tower, maybe dispatch can not tone the pager, but they can key up the siren and update you on fireground channel once you get to the station.

Another item we have had are the settings on the siren: 5 runs means you got a fire, while 3 runs is ems. So during the night you hear more tha 3 blast you move a little faster. Also outside the main door of our house is a call box. One button, when pushed rolls the siren. There were two cases where there was a serious MVA outside the station, and rather than calling 911, civilians pushed the button. So you are home and the whistle is just blowing you know something is up.

So, as I said, lots of pros and cons. Next time JOE PUBLIC says they hate the sound of the siren, say "if it wakes you up.... Here is an application, help out".

[x129K 1,393]

I am a million percent PRO-house siren, but I think activating it for EMS calls is REDICULOUS! No wonder neighbors complain!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

If they want to maintain the points...yes. At the same time I suggest they look at the policy on when it is used. ISO does not require it for all calls (or any for that matter) as long as its periodically tested and can be used as a backup if the primary system fails.

The residents mentioned they did not like it sounding at night and they did not care for the numerous blasts indicating call type and location. Seems to me instead of shutting it down completely, if they say any call between 7a-7p gets the horn and only urgent/priority calls after 7p-7a would solve everyones problems.

[firemoose827 324]

I do not think horns/sirens/bells, etc make that big of a difference in regards to personnel numbers. However, I have heard citizens say that they think the siren serves one big purpose. When they are driving in town and they hear the horn go off, they look around more cautiously anticipating the responding volunteers or FD apparatus. They also see someone coming with a blue light and no their is actually a call because they heard the horn go off.

Anyways, as far as being notified of a call, pagers/radios do a fine job.

I heard this one before.... if they cant hear the federal Q 50 feet away, what makes you think that they can hear the bell/whistle/siren a mile or two away ?

Agreed about the sirens notifying the community, it happens and it works. The siren on the station is god knows how many more decibles than the "Q" on the truck and some communities have them in key locations through the town, like on the station, than one on a pole near the outskirts of town.

I have to disagree to agree with all parties here. First off we are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to professional and volunteer agencies. Professional agencies are in quaters on shift, so why do you need a siren when you are already in house. For the volees it has pros and cons being they are not always in house.

Yes we have unlimited communications, i.e. Minitor Pagers (with repeaters so even if you miss the original page you can play it again), text messaging (from the county - but may come at dispatch or hours later, "don't you feel stupid when you rush to the sation after getting a text that is an hour old), Text messaging for large incidents (1st Responder Network), Emails, Scanners, Mobile Radios, Portable Radios.

But what happens when a mechanical issue, outside on a nice day mowing, or Storms? I have been outside doing work and did not her the pager, but I sure hear the siren. Then say a storm knocks out the repeater tower, maybe dispatch can not tone the pager, but they can key up the siren and update you on fireground channel once you get to the station.

Another item we have had are the settings on the siren: 5 runs means you got a fire, while 3 runs is ems. So during the night you hear more tha 3 blast you move a little faster. Also outside the main door of our house is a call box. One button, when pushed rolls the siren. There were two cases where there was a serious MVA outside the station, and rather than calling 911, civilians pushed the button. So you are home and the whistle is just blowing you know something is up.

So, as I said, lots of pros and cons. Next time JOE PUBLIC says they hate the sound of the siren, say "if it wakes you up.... Here is an application, help out".

A lot of you are thinking primarily from a large district point of view, with big well funded dispatch centers and huge cities that are filled with people who dont give a dam about others so could care less if the siren goes off. Also, these large areas (cities) and large villages also have the capability to send the alert on the text messages. I dont even know if my county knows this exists!

My point, in smaller areas like mine with farm land and large protection districts with volunteers spread out, and no funds to buy new pagers for new members, like my dept, we rely on the siren. One guy that responds to everything is a farmer, he listens for the siren when hes in the fields so he doesnt lose his pager or break it in the machinery (which he has done once already). He can hear it even in a running tractor.

You need to think outside the box and think of all the factors. Our residents will listen for the siren and than they know to look for the trucks and the chief who responds in their POV to all calls. They have complained to us when it was broken and they couldnt hear it, and were concerned. (Not making it up )

Anyway, Im for the sirens, we need to keep them here.

Stay Safe

[Guest mon7sey]

The horn was already shut off between the hours of 11pm & 7am. The issue runs deeper than the horn. Next they will complain about the noise the trucks make when they leave and come back.

[newsbuff 286]

Heres a better thing to think about. What if the horn is set off by tones? Ones that I could think of are Montrose, Buchanan, and Verplanck. These three departments have one tone for the house siren and one for the pagers.

So if the pager system is "down", and by down I mean the radio tower went down, then the siren wouldn't work either...

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Agreed about the sirens notifying the community, it happens and it works. The siren on the station is god knows how many more decibles than the "Q" on the truck and some communities have them in key locations through the town, like on the station, than one on a pole near the outskirts of town.

A lot of you are thinking primarily from a large district point of view, with big well funded dispatch centers and huge cities that are filled with people who dont give a dam about others so could care less if the siren goes off. Also, these large areas (cities) and large villages also have the capability to send the alert on the text messages. I dont even know if my county knows this exists!

My point, in smaller areas like mine with farm land and large protection districts with volunteers spread out, and no funds to buy new pagers for new members, like my dept, we rely on the siren. One guy that responds to everything is a farmer, he listens for the siren when hes in the fields so he doesnt lose his pager or break it in the machinery (which he has done once already). He can hear it even in a running tractor.

You need to think outside the box and think of all the factors. Our residents will listen for the siren and than they know to look for the trucks and the chief who responds in their POV to all calls. They have complained to us when it was broken and they couldnt hear it, and were concerned. (Not making it up )

Anyway, Im for the sirens, we need to keep them here.

Stay Safe

You need to think outside the box , buy a goat and he will eat the box, and stop scaring the farm ann-na-milis with that siren

[INIT915 1,119]

Also outside the main door of our house is a call box. One button, when pushed rolls the siren. There were two cases where there was a serious MVA outside the station, and rather than calling 911, civilians pushed the button. So you are home and the whistle is just blowing you know something is up.

So anyone, at anytime, can stroll by your front door and activate your siren?

[INIT915 1,119]

I am a million percent PRO-house siren, but I think activating it for EMS calls is REDICULOUS! No wonder neighbors complain!

Curious why you approve its use for fire, but not EMS calls?

[firemoose827 324]

You need to think outside the box , buy a goat and he will eat the box, and stop scaring the farm ann-na-milis with that siren

???????? Care to translate?