Round Rock FD's New Brush 7

[x635 4,066]

Round Rock Fire Department (Williamson County, TX) New Brush 7

2011 Ford F-550/Siddons Skeeter T5

[x129K 1,393]

)))))))))))))))))))B O I N G! (((((((((((((((((((((

[Mark Z 18]

Can I get one TOO! Nice looking truck and I wish them the best with it!

[batt. 12 12]

nice looking truck good luck with it what is the MA pump putting out

[JBE 328]

VERY nice..

[x635 4,066]

Here are some more shots. The Siddons Skeeter brush trucks are built right here in Texas, at a shop right outside San Antonio. They are built for use in Texas. The Siddons Skeeter is a division of Siddons-Martin Fire Apparatus, the local Pierce dealer. They produce about 40 units a year, and they bought this brush truck company in 2008 and it has evolved and grown.

Some more info on Skeeter Brush Trucks:

http://www.skeeterbrushtrucks.com

[mfc2257 464]

I don't normally get excited over brush units.... BUT that is the most bad a$$ looking brush rig I've seen yet!!!

[TXCHIEF 9]

It has been great seeing a lot of these units in use out here as part of the TIFMAS Program activation for the wildland fires out of west of here. Now only if the rains would come to help

[cas2383 22]

Im sure seeing the fires on the news this will be put to the test.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I have a couple of questions about this design.

1. Doesn't having personnel standing up in the back violate, NFPA 1901 and every push for seatbelts and closed cabs the fire service has pushed for over the last 30 years?

2. What potential is thier for a member to be ejected or crushed if the unit overturns?

3. If the unit is overrun by fire, what systems are inplace to protect the firefighters?

[x635 4,066]

I have a couple of questions about this design.

1. Doesn't having personnel standing up in the back violate, NFPA 1901 and every push for seatbelts and closed cabs the fire service has pushed for over the last 30 years?

This position isn't used while responding. It's used on the scene, on typically flat or field terrain, at no more then 5-10 miles an hour. Having two firefighters on "whip lines" is a very effective and quick way to get a grass fire extinguished.

2. What potential is thier for a member to be ejected or crushed if the unit overturns?

The potential is there, hopefully it never happens. Instead of having the firefighter walk along the side of the unit for several miles, in often very high Texas heat. That presents a trip and fall situation, in which the firefighter could potentially be run over. Also, the firefighter doesn't have to walk through "hot spots" or through the fuel. Walking is also is a slower method, allowing the fire to get ahead better.

3. If the unit is overrun by fire, what systems are inplace to protect the firefighters?

Wildland gear contains a personal shelter. Plus, training for wildland fires to help prevent these types of situations. Just like you would use certain tatics in a structure fire. Also, in this type of truck, they can often outrun the fire as opposed to a large regular engine.

In addition, this truck isn't going to be placed in harm's way in a "raging wilfire" type situation. It's going to be used to knock down fire in certain locations, especially the perimiter of the fire, as well as to knock down hot spots. If it's a small fire, like a roadway shoulder or small field, you can get ahead of the fire real quick in this, preventing the fire from becoming a large fire.

It should also be noted that Class A foam is used to maximize the exinguishment capability. Also, many trucks have remote control front nozzles, but they are as effective as the whip lines in most cases.

More about Texas wildfire planning, response, and training:

http://txforestservice.tamu.edu/main/default.aspx?dept=frp

http://www.teex.com/teex.cfm?pageid=ESTIprog&area=ESTI&templateid=1829

[Bnechis 3,961]

1. Doesn't having personnel standing up in the back violate, NFPA 1901 and every push for seatbelts and closed cabs the fire service has pushed for over the last 30 years?

This position isn't used while responding. It's used on the scene, on flat terrain, at no more then 5-10 miles an hour. Having two firefighters on "whip lines" is a very effective and quick way to get a grass fire extinguished.

Your answer will not do well against Texas Lawyer Jim Juno who specializes in FD litigation. He often lectures about how lawyers use NFPA to afford new cars & pools (for the lawyer). Just because they are traveling slow, since its off road it is easy to hit a rut and dump the unit. If the "proper" seating in the cab is generally for 2, where are the 2 ff's on those whipline riding when responding?

2. What potential is thier for a member to be ejected or crushed if the unit overturns?

The potential is there, hopefully it never happens. Instead of having the firefighter walk along the side of the unit for several miles, in often very high Texas heat. That presents a trip and fall situation, in which the firefighter could potentially be run over. Also, the firefighter doesn't have to walk through "hot spots" or through the fuel. Walking is also is a slower method, allowing the fire to get ahead better.

A more progressive approach was taken by the Annaville (Tx) VFD. They developped a "Brush Tanker" for grass fires.

The unit can handle 40 degree grades (angle of approach is 40 deg., departure is 60 deg.)and up to 29 degree side hill. It has a drivers heads up Thermal Imaging and IR camera. The CAFS pump has its own engine with all controls in the cab. with bumper turret and deck gun controls in the officers seat. The chassis is rated by the US Army for 58 mph when towing a 21,000 pound trailer. It seats 3 ff's, has a 1,500 gal water tank and 40 gal foam, 500 gpm pump. 10kw PTO generator. 5 preconnected 1 3/4" hand lines, 200' 2 1/2" and 1,200' 5in supply. 40' hard suction (20' preconnected to the pump for 1 ff deployment). 24, 14 & 10 foot ladders. The cab is heated, air conditioned and has an in cab breathing air system.

With 3 of these brush tankers and their inovative design and 6 pumper tankers that are equally unique, AFD has managed to place 19,200 gallons of water on wheels (and 360 gal of foam) in its 1st response area.

Prior to purchasing this fleet in 2003, AFD had an ISO of 5 within 1,000' of hydrants and a 9 or 10 beyond that. Now they are an ISO 3 in both the hydranted and non-hydranted area. Last I heard, they were about to upgrade the hydrant area to ISO 2.

[x635 4,066]

I'm not saying I disagree with you, I understand and agree with the safety issues with the transverse deck, but that's just the way things are done and what most departments want. It's simple, cheap, and effective. The two firefighters on the whipline are probaly on the brush fire assignment, probaly on the engine they quarter with.

Having those big fancy trucks sure would be nice, but a lot of department's can't afford them or would rather use money enhancing other parts of their wildfire programs. In fact, in a lot of the more rural areas, they build their own brush units. Also, all they really need and want out of these trucks is water, foam, and a hose, and some wildland tools. They'd rather have more money for MORE brush trucks and tankers, which help more then a single vehicle would. The front remote controlled nozzle is gaining in popularity, but is still an expensive option that uses more water and foam then is needed. They get out and fight the fire. And these fires are a fight. I'm sure many departments would love an airport crash truck to tackle these fires, but that just isn't in the cards.

In addition, these are built on a Ford chasis, and there are tons of Ford dealers and parts in Texas that can fix any mechanical issue quickly. Any issue with the pump can be quickly repaired, or the pump can easily be changed out. In addition, most of the manufacturers are local.

There are inherent risks in a structure fire. There are also risks with a fire that can move a football field a minute, and can be started by a single cigarrete butt. We're in an extreme to exceptional drought, and have had heavy winds and perfect fire conditions. By the time you get out of the truck, the fire can pass you. These trucks can easily fit into residential areas and pre-apply Class A foam when they can. One fire consumed forty houses in just under two hours. Another fire was the size of Rhode Island. There are some urban interface units being built, but they aren't very common. Mostly all Texas departments, including major Texas departments such as Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, and Fort Worth use these type of trucks. And, some of these areas are really remote and rural, some cities only having 200 people, and they're an hour or more away from anything.

It should be noted that Texas has EXTENSIVE training and protocol for these trucks and where, when, and how they are used.

I should note, the state issues Texas INTRAstate Mutual Aid System (TIFMAS), don't have a transverse deck. Check out pohotos of them here:

[Bnechis 3,961]

I'm not saying I disagree with you, I understand and agree with the safety issues with the transverse deck, but that's just the way things are done and what most departments want.

100 years of tradition, unspoiled by progress. The fire service wants lots of things, it does not mean we need them or its in our best interest to have them.

It's simple, cheap, and effective. The two firefighters on the whipline are probaly on the brush fire assignment, probaly on the engine they quarter with.

Simple....yes. Cheap.....yes. Effective.....maybe (but I will come back to that). AFD's operation puts them on the rig thats attacking the fire, not a 2nd unit that needs to deliver the members, then sit at the side of the road and watch.

Having those big fancy trucks sure would be nice, but a lot of department's can't afford them or would rather use money enhancing other parts of their wildfire programs.

AFD put together a proposal that reduced property insurance premiums by 40% - 50% per year for 15+ years. The taxpayers understood the value of this proposal and voted 79% in favor of a tax increase to pay for it, since the tax increase was drimatically less than the insurance discount. Now they have a fleet that can tackle the brush fire problem and the community saved money in the long run.

In fact, in a lot of the more rural areas, they build their own brush units.

Since the FMTV chassis have now been inservice with the US Army for over 20 years, I suspect they may be available on surplus for local governments.

They'd rather have more money for MORE brush trucks and tankers, which help more then a single vehicle would. The front remote controlled nozzle is gaining in popularity, but is still an expensive option that uses more water and foam then is needed. They get out and fight the fire. And these fires are a fight.

I'm reminded of the quote "More is less and less is more". More vehicles that are less capable may not be the answer. Consider this, is 4 30ft ground ladders butter than 1 100ft arial? It depends whats being laddered, the 6th floor or the 2nd?

This dept has 3 go anywhere "brush tankers" to cover the equivilant water would require 12-18 conventional units. that would require 36-54 firefighters vs. 9 to deliever a similar attack.

Yes the front remote is expensive, but so are reels. I do not know if it actually uses more water/foam, but it does have 2x -3x the reach, so in theory that additional water is covering ground (or exposures).

In addition, these are built on a Ford chasis, and there are tons of Ford dealers and parts in Texas that can fix any mechanical issue quickly. Any issue with the pump can be quickly repaired, or the pump can easily be changed out. In addition, most of the manufacturers are local.

FMTV's unparalleled 98 percent U.S. Army operational readiness rate and 13,333 Mean Miles Between Hardware Mission Failure are testimony of the truck's quality and reliability. Over 34,000 of these trucks have been delivered to the US Military since 1991. The same pumps are used in these units.

There are inherent risks in a structure fire. There are also risks with a fire that can move a football field a minute, and can be started by a single cigarrete butt. We're in an extreme to exceptional drought, and have had heavy winds and perfect fire conditions. By the time you get out of the truck, the fire can pass you. These trucks can easily fit into residential areas and pre-apply Class A foam when they can. One fire consumed forty houses in just under two hours. Another fire was the size of Rhode Island.

Earlier you mentioned effective and getting out to fight these tough fires. Here is a dept that does not get out, the can out drive the fire and carry enough water, foam, hose and other equipment to be classified by ISO as a structural pumper. Your entire justification is the reason to switch to this type of apparatus.

[x635 4,066]

100 years of tradition, unspoiled by progress. The fire service wants lots of things, it does not mean we need them or its in our best interest to have them.

I must say AFD's trucks are AWESOME. But back to the topic at hand....

No, we are WAY, WAY more progressive down here then most of the departments in the country.

Texas is a gigantic state (270,000 sq miles), and you need more wildfire trucks to cover more ground. We also have just about every ecosytem......coastal, prarie/plains, forest and swampland, mountainous areas, and vast desert with canyons and all kinds of other things. Those big trucks may be the answer, and I certainly think they are awesome, but it's not realistic at this time. I'm sure a lot of departments would love to have these, but to get enough of these trucks to cover the 270,000 square miles that is Texas simply isn't a short term answer in this economy.

You also need other resources at a grass/wildland fire. You need to dig trenches so the fire can't spread underground, you need to create a fireline/firebreak, and you've got to try and make sure that there aren't any trees that it can crown. You need to do proactive and prescribed burns. In agricultural areas, you may have to herd livestock. In others, you may have to assist with evacuations.

As far as staffing, only one firefighter could be manning the whip line as well. Using the transverse deck, he/she could change sides.

A vehicle is not the solution to the problem, only a tool to assist with the problem. All these departments have Class A engines, and whatever else type of apparatus their department needs. Brush trucks can run independtly or as part of a task force, while still have the structural apparatus ready for a structural response. These brush trucks don't sit collecting dust. And all they are needed for is brush fires in most cases. Some departments use them to run EMS or parking garage calls. But, if they go to help another department, these trucks can be gone for days.

And given the enormous military facilities in Texas, this chasis is very familiar...I see it all the time with various uses. It's very impressive. They are also made in the Houston area, and I've passed by the factory on my way to Houston. Getting them surplus is cheap. But the Federal government would rather spend billions fighting wars overseas, and contracts to build their police and fire forces, then protect our homeland and equuip fire departments in need with these types of powerful trucks that could put a big dent in wilfire suppresion and firefighter safety.

Read this story:

http://www.texas-fire.com/2011/04/more-than-1000-firefighters-from-35-states-helping-battle-texas-blazes/

Sound fun?

BTW, thanks for the heads up on those trucks! I will be going down there to photograph them. I didn't even know they existed.

From an article I found online:

Our THREE CAFS brush tankers are a bit diffent. The goal was to produce a vehicle that could go almost anywhere. It would offer what today’s brush trucks do not offer; the ability to ford deep water; supply pumpers at structure fires; shuttle water; make initial fire attack on homes; draft water at high flows to fill other tankers or support fire attack; businesses and highway accidents; offer access to the rear of all properties; act as a relay pumper; provide enhanced off road abilities in any weather; lay large diameter supply lines for itself or other apparatus; provide an all weather all wheel drive master streams and provide compressed air foam streams.

Stewart & Stevenson Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles (FTMV) was selected by Annaville Fire Rescue to produce the fire truck chassis for a new generation of do anything brush tankers.

The FMTV chassis was chosen for its first ever non-military role because it has the requisite payload capacity for the planned fire-fighting apparatus and has a proven track record of superior off-road mobility and reliability with the military in the over 18,000 trucks already produced by Stewart & Stevenson. FMTV's unparalleled 98 percent U.S. Army operational readiness rate and 13,333 Mean Miles Between Hardware Mission Failure are testimony of the truck's quality and reliability.

Stewart & Stevenson designed, manufactures and has supported the Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles for the U.S. Army since 1991. The FMTV, which includes 2.5-ton, 5-ton and 10-ton trucks in more than 14 variants, is produced in Stewart & Stevenson’s state-of-the-art facilities located 50 miles west of Houston in Sealy, Texas.

“We’re delighted to apply our engineering expertise to this important application that helps save lives and property,” said Michael L. Grimes, President and Chief Executive Officer of Stewart & Stevenson Services, Inc. “This program is another step forward as we broaden the capabilities of our versatile FMTV platform to non-military applications.”

More information More information

A 10 ton Stewart Stevenson chassis was selected for the first time for fire service application. The stainless steel body is built by Saulsbury with a Darley/Odin CAFS pump module. The poly tank holds 1500 gallons of water and 40 gallons of Class B 1% AFFF foam. A separate diesel engine 500 gpm pump for was selected for pump and roll operations. The pump can be and all valves are controlled from inside the cab. A 220 cu ft compressor for CAFS is also run off the pump engine. A 10 KW PTO generator is used to supply four fixed mount 2000 watt floodlights and seven 110/120 volt outlets. Four attack lines totaling 500 feet of 1 3/4 inch or 750 feet of 1” hose are mounted at the rear of the apparatus and a 50 foot 1 3/4" and a 150 foot 1 icnh preconnect on the front bumper. Supply is provided by a 1200 feet of 5 inch supply hose bed and 400 foot 2 1/2" bed or through 40 feet of hard suction hose. Of which 30 feet is preconnected in a cross lay bed to a 3 inch chicksan swivel with a low level foot valve strainer attached for quick one person deployment. Also carried are 24, 14 and 10 foot ladders. It has two compressed air in cab breathing systems from a large cascade bottle to allow use in heavy smoke operations. One remote control self oscillating bumper gun plumbed with two nozzles on the end, one smoothbore stack (1", 1 1/8" and 1 1/4") for CAFS and one electric remote fully adjustable fog nozzle (60, 95, 120 and 240 gpm) with fog and straight stream patterns for use with water and foam streams as well as a second fixed midship deck gun on top of the rig rated at 500 gpm with a combination self educting automatic foam nozzle attached.

A four wheel, 10 ton, off road trailer also with central tire inflation system and flood lights was designed for each to carry 2000 gallons of water with automatic side facing dump chutes and a direct connect to the brush trucks water tank offering 3500 gallons for tanker shuttle use or for pumping out of the brush trucks pump.

The side dumps on the trailer and the brush truck could be controlled in the cab and the trailer released without leaving the cab.

2000 feet of 7 1/4 inch supply hose is carried in the bed above the water tank and a rigid bottom zodiac boat is carried above in a FDNY style overhead rack. The trailer is designed to go 98% of the places the brush chassis will go.

Stewart Stevenson yesterday got an order for 11,000 more of our brush truck chassis for the military. They had to give 8 to Oshkosh so Oshkosh could modifiy them and bid against them with their own chassis.

Each station in conjunction with the 3500 gallons on the brush trucks and the two pumper tanker CAFS rigs offer 8500 gallons of water 7500 gpm of pump capacity and 11,200 feet of LDH per station. Seems to handle most small grass fires and wind driven cotton field fires.

Edited April 24, 2011 by x635

[Capejake72 8]

the "trenches" that are cut by the Forest Service tractor plows are what stops a fire, water and/or foam will cool the fuels, take the heat away, protect structures, and stop a small slow moving fire, but bare dirt (mineral soil) is the only sure thing (unless you can safely counterfire in front of the wildfire)