Emergency Services Museum For Westchester

[x635 4,066]

I mentioned in the "Dobbs Ferry VAC: Missed Oppurtunity" thread about my personal opinion, once again my personal opinion, that Westchester really should have a emergency services musuem. As to not "hijack" that thread, I created this thread. If you replied in that thread about this issue, feel free to cut and paste.

I strongly feel Westchester County should have some sort of emergency serivces musuem, even if it's a small one. I feel the benefits of this musuem would be diverse.

-Preserve, store, and document Westchester's rich history

-Honor those who served and those who died doing so

-Documenting disasters that lead to major change, such as the Stouffers fire

-Show the tools and progression of tools our brothers from the past used and how far we have come

-Educate children about fire safety/PD and EMS (injury) prevention

-Makes citizens more aware of our "presence" and dedication

-To record and tell the stories many of our "senior guys" hold, to make sure those lessons don't die with them and are there for future generations. Their experience can never be duplicated.

-I'm sure there would be plenty of volunteers (retired FF's, etc) who are passionate enough to volunteer there.

-Place to host formal events. If departments spent the thousands of dollars for banquet halls, etc at a fire musuem banquet room, this could help to offset the cost.

-The County has plenty of facilities already that could be used to start with. Also, Westchester has a lot of corporate donors to pull from for grants, etc

Regardless of all the crud and drama in Westchester, there should be something to take pride in, and something to help remind us of why we have that pride.

[mreis95 77]

I respect your opinion, and don't think its a horribly bad idea but I think it is highly impractical. Volleys barely have enough time to do mandatory training, I doubt that they will give up what little time they have to spend there. But what about the basics though: who will pay for the construction of this building if Westchester will not allow the use of one of their buildings, grants cannot pay for everything, where will they the money for the bills. Plus what will you put in there, I don't think many departments will step up and give their old trucks up to be here. I think there is way too much that needs to be put into this and don't see it ever happening.

Just my opinion though others may and probably will think differently.

Thanks

[JohnnyOV 2]

With the general population not giving a crap about what we do anyways, and then to ask for money to fund the place, I never see this happening, nor do I want to see it happen. It is a waste of money that can be better spent else where.

[mreis95 77]

And by the way it's Museum

[thebreeze 194]

With everything that is going on today in the fire service the last thing we should be worrying about is a museum. There isn't enough money to go around as it is, and anyone with the free time to contribute to a museum could use that time to lobby for things that we actually need in the fire service. If we keep wasting our time on things like this that are trivial to our profession we are going to be creating some new exhibits for this museum. Hey kids look at the adequate staffing exhibit, that was back when we worried about manpower and doing our job safely and effectively. How about an exhibit detailing all the things we fought for and then rolled over and slept while they were taken away, like good benefits, collective bargaining rights, merit based employment, and presumptive health bills. People have it out for the fire service right now and we need to focus on protecting what we have fought for rather than waste time and money waxing nostalgic about what used to be. Take care of the futures of you and your brothers before you worry about all the buffs who want to gawk at an antique pumper. Tradition is great and its an important part of the fire service and emergency services in general, but we need to protect ourselves and the profession that has allowed this tradition to be passed on otherwise it is going to disappear forever.

[JBE 328]

Great idea, bad time.

[dmc2007 17]

It's a nice idea, and there is definitely much to want to preserve in Westchester, but let's face it: there is a lot that needs to get fixed in Westchester as well. We have departments that can barely cover calls, patchy and unreliable interoperability infrastructure, very little advanced planning, and resources that are either way over-duplicated (and often understaffed) or virtually non-existent. Let's work on fixing these issues first.

*This is not a knock on any department nor the selfless individuals that serve as first responders in the county.

[chris498 31]

I agree that the preservation of the history of Emergency Services in Westchester County is important. In 100 years the make up of the services that protect those who work live and travel in Westchester County will certainly be very different from what they are today and people will be interested in learning about and researching the organiztions and people who protected our communities in days past. However, instead of looking to start a new venture, we should be looking to existing resources.

There is already an organizton in Westchester County who's mission is to document and preserve the history of Westchester County. The Westchester County Historical Society founded in 1874 is a library and research center located in the county records center in Elmsford. They have an expansive collection of books, pamphlets, photographs, maps, newspapers, scrapbooks and manuscripts - and a good deal already on the history of firefighting in Westchester all of which are stored in a climate controled environment optimal for preevation. They have an excellent staff who are beyond knowledgeable, friendly and passionate about the preservation of all aspects of Westchester's History. Better still - they have a very easy to use reading room that is open to the public on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

When I worked for WCHS I tried my best to grow the collection as it relates to the history of fire fighting in Westchester County. If you personaly or your department (fire, police or EMS) has any materials that they would like to see preserved in a location where the public can view them this is the place where you should looking. You can learn more about them by visiting their website http://www.westchesterhistory.com.

That's my two cents worth.

- Mussels

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Again as I said in the previous thread and in my opinion, I wouldn't support it nor be in favor of it. First there would be the issue of funding for a building, either existing or needing to be built...and then the continual funding as you would still need staff as you you can't guarantee volunteer guides etc., an experienced museum curator and the cost of insurance alone. Every agency has an opportunity to preserve some history of their own, but it shouldn't come at the expense of taxpayer money. Many of us need funding for equipment and even more so staffing and its just not a good diversion of funding. Plus, the only ones that really care about that sort of things tend to be buffs and you can only live on that demographic for so long. I like history, but look at events as I don't get all warm and fuzzy about a new delivery or a old hand drawn, turnout equipment, etc. Give me history to keep me safe or the guys around me and I'm happy.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I think in a perfect world, this would be a nice idea. However, present day and in todays world...not a good idea. Two big issues that I see hampering the idea are 1. staffing and 2. funding. I don't think there are enough firefighter's (Paid or Volunteer) with enough free time or knowledge of the fire service history, to run the museum. I also do not think that the necessary funding could be round up and collected. I mean, we have enough trouble getting donations from residents in our districts. It would be great to have a collection of items and stories from our past. Most firehouses do this on their own. Maybe in another life, this idea will work and be a nice addition to the Westchester County.

[x635 4,066]

Hmmmm, so I guess all these museums are useless:

Los Angeles City Fire Musuem and Educational Institute

http://www.lafdmuseum.org/

Hall Of Flame Fire Musuem:

http://www.hallofflame.org/

Dallas Fire Museum:

http://www.dallasfiremuseum.com/

LA COUNTY Fire Musuem:

http://www.lacountyfiremuseum.com/

New York City Fire Museum:

http://www.nycfiremuseum.org/

Nassau County Fire Museum:

http://www.ncfiremuseum.org/

And arts, culture, and history are useless. Maybe we should shut down the Musuem of National History, the Interpid, Smithsonian, etc. Sell it all for money. Stop teaching kids history in schools and we could save money. Senior guys, what do they know? What good is history or education anyways? [/sarcasm]

As for funding, it would come from outside sources, not taxpayer money. Grants that wouldn't be available for general firefighting purposes. All kinds of grants are available for musuems. As for staffing, like the majority of fire service museums I have been to across this country, it would be mainly staffed by retirees who often love the preservation of history and have a lot of knowledge to share. And there's plenty of people who could contribute to this musuem becoming a reality without having an effect on response. This doesn't have to be an immediate goal, it could be a long term one.

Also, it's not all about apparatus. Take for instance, Black Sunday. Those who survived, and those who made the ultimate sacrifice, made personal escape ropes and bailout training a national standard (I know it's didn't happen in WC, just an example). The Stouffers Fire in Purchase and the Disco fire in Port Chester, had a major impacts on fire codes. Tell me, are firefighters 20, 30,40 years ago going to remember this?

Also, by adding an educational component, you have an oppurtunity and attraction to educate children and adults on fire safety.

I guess the history of emergency services in Westcheser is unremarkable.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Hmmmm, so I guess all these museums are useless:

Los Angeles City Fire Musuem and Educational Institute

http://www.lafdmuseum.org/

Hall Of Flame Fire Musuem:

http://www.hallofflame.org/

Dallas Fire Museum:

http://www.dallasfiremuseum.com/

LA COUNTY Fire Musuem:

http://www.lacountyfiremuseum.com/

New York City Fire Museum:

http://www.nycfiremuseum.org/

Nassau County Fire Museum:

http://www.ncfiremuseum.org/

And arts, culture, and history are useless. Maybe we should shut down the Musuem of National History, the Interpid, Smithsonian, etc. Sell it all for money. Stop teaching kids history in schools and we could save money. Senior guys, what do they know? What good is history or education anyways? [/sarcasm]

As for funding, it would come from outside sources, not taxpayer money. Grants that wouldn't be available for general firefighting purposes. All kinds of grants are available for musuems. As for staffing, like the majority of fire service museums I have been to across this country, it would be mainly staffed by retirees who often love the preservation of history and have a lot of knowledge to share. And there's plenty of people who could contribute to this musuem becoming a reality without having an effect on response. This doesn't have to be an immediate goal, it could be a long term one.

Also, it's not all about apparatus. Take for instance, Black Sunday. Those who survived, and those who made the ultimate sacrifice, made personal escape ropes and bailout training a national standard (I know it's didn't happen in WC, just an example). The Stouffers Fire in Purchase and the Disco fire in Port Chester, had a major impacts on fire codes. Tell me, are firefighters 20, 30,40 years ago going to remember this?

Also, by adding an educational component, you have an oppurtunity and attraction to educate children and adults on fire safety.

I guess the history of emergency services in Westcheser is unremarkable.

Arts, culture, and history are not useless. At least, I don't think so! After all, I am a music educator. I can not imagine that you are the first person to have this idea. For some reason or another, there is no such museum in Westchester County.

[x129K 1,393]

NOT useless.....but right NOW, in this economic age when guys are losing their jobs, rigs have 2 guys on them, and people are waiting for extended periods of time for emergency assistance...it is not USEFULL.

You know how I feel about history and tradition...but even I can't justify such an expense given brothers are losing thier own homes daily.

[x635 4,066]

As far as the expense, one doesn't have to do with another. Funding for the musuem, again, isn't going to come out of the same funds we use for operations. And no one says this has to be done overnight or in the imminenent future.....this is something that could be planned for for a while and then grow at a set pace, 5-10-20 years, whatever. Rome wasn't built in a day, people. Look at most musuems....traditionally they didn't start out as gigantic institutions.

[x129K 1,393]

Well in that case - Get 'R Dun! Seth for curator!

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I have a Musuem in my basement, Can I start charging now ?

[x129K 1,393]

Pixs?

[ny10570 745]

At some point adding more museums becomes redundant. NYC has a much more interesting history than westchester and their museum isn't exactly expansive. They do an excellent job, but outside of children and fire community no one gives a rats a**. So should every community have a museum? Absolutely not. There are not enough people who care and not enough exhibits to make it interesting to the few who do care. So we go larger, one for each county?? Sorry, but I don't see Westchester as being able to maintain an interesting museum beyond one or two visits. On the state level, you can now pull from enough places to have enough stories to get people to go repeatedly. The state museum in Albany has an extensive storage capacity and constantly has new exhibits from all over the state rotating through. A pitch to them for a fire exhibit or maybe even a permanent exhibit may work.

No one is saying that the MoMA, Natural History, American History, The Field Museum, Smithsonian, Intrepid, or any other museum is necessarily a waste of money. People are just saying that in April 2011 a Westchester Fire museum is a ridiculous proposal. Next time you're in NY check out the Nassau Fire museum. No offense to the guys from Nassau but as beautiful and well put together as it is, there just isn't a whole lot worth going back a second time for.

[gamewell45 258]

We already have a museum in Hudson NY; its located at the Firefighters home at the Hudson and although I've never seen it I'm told its a nice place to visit; its staffed mainly by the residents of the home. either way, trying to fund a start up museum at this time given the budget cuts and the state of the economy might not be to viable an idea.

[99subi 121]

Waste of money

[x635 4,066]

What about each department having a small history display in their headquarters? Is that a good thing?

[PFDRes47cue 653]

What about each department having a small history display in their headquarters? Is that a good thing?

I don't think it hurts anything. I actually think it provides members and interested citizens with a nice display of department history. I also think that small displays in fire departments are found in almost every department and might even be done unintentionally.

[newsbuff 286]

What about each department having a small history display in their headquarters? Is that a good thing?

But what about the departments that don't have the room to put anything there?

Oh yea, they go spec out a $13.6 million dollar fire house with 20,000 square feet, and build a museum there.

And where does that money come from....

[Turborich 12]

You don't learn lessons from a senior guy at a taxpayer funded museum. Just as we don't fight fires from in back of a computer screen.

[mreis95 77]

It seems like your getting really defensive over this, relax. You gave your opinion people are giving there's. No reason to say whatever and oh I guess all these are useless.

I don't think people hate the idea just right now in Westchester we have other things going on in emergency services that need to be dealt with before we talk about a museum otherwise we are all gonna be history.

[ptwatson 82]

What a huge undertaking this would be. However, I think it would be worth it. I think one reason that the public have a laize fair attitude toward emergency service is that they are not really educated on what we do. THey know that when they dial for help we show up and that is all they need to know . They read what is in the media which at time has been known to be slanted. A museum wold be a great place to show the past, present, and future. it would be a great plce to teach safety and prevention. I think however, there should be a Westchester County Museum. How many of you know there is a Westchester County veterans museum. It is at Lasdon Park in Somers and it is open on the weekend during the summer. It is hardly ever visited. I think it would be great to gather all of these artifacts under one roof. There could be a dedicated wing/exhibit toward the Emergency Services in the county. Westchester County is rich in history from Washington coming up the Bronx River for the Battle of White Plains to various other historical events that have come down over the years. A county museum would be an interesting and fun lace to visit. But in these economic times i dont see it coming to furition.

[thebreeze 194]

I don't think it is at all reasonable to compare the history of Westchester County Emergency Services to the history of any of those cities departments, and it is simply absurd to compare it to art in general, or history as a whole. Thats like comparing visiting the Museum of Natural History with stopping at a truck stop that has the worlds biggest ball of twine. Even with the rich history of the cities you mentioned, their museums aren't worth more than a few hours, or more than one visit. Does everything that has happened need a museum? Does every facet of society that has advanced in the past 200 odd years need its own museum, and if so do we need one of these museums for every geographical subdivision? No, because national, well established, well funded, and professionally run museums take on the task of representing all these things as a whole for the entire nation. It's a great idea for individual departments to preserve their own history as they see fit, so as to pass it on down to their future members, thats called tradition. Just like you would keep family heirlooms and keepsakes to pass on to your own children to teach them about their families history. History, tradition, and understanding the sacrifices of those who came before you are important parts of the fire service and all emergency services. The place for handing down these things to future generations however, is not in a museum, but in the fire house, during training, or while critiquing a call. The senior men need to pass these things on, and the junior members need to pick the brains of these senior guys or all the tradition that makes our jobs great will disappear.

[x635 4,066]

Maybe I didn't make this clear enough.

A MUSEUM DOES NOT HAVE TO BE FUNDED BY TAXPAYER DOLLARS!

Even with the rich history of the cities you mentioned, their museums aren't worth more than a few hours, or more than one visit.

Have you been to the Hall Of Flame museum in Phoenix?

I understand everyone's viewpoints. I still think, if not in exact musuem format, that firehouses have some sort of small display case telling their history. And DES has those display cases, which I was last there a few years ago had some historical items. Those walls could be a great place to tell history. We also have something called the internet, which is a great musuem.

Also, the Westchester Public Records are great, they just aren't as "visible" as they could be. Maybe there could be a rotating display at DES?

Here is how my city chose to handle it:

http://impactnews.com/round-rock-pflugerville/recent-news/4456-old-settlers-association-begins-construction-on-fire-engine-museum

It seems like your getting really defensive over this, relax. You gave your opinion people are giving there's. No reason to say whatever and oh I guess all these are useless.

It's called a conversation, or debate, however you want to look at it. I'm not getting defensive, I'm presenting my rebuttal, and that's how I chose to word it.

If anyone can help, where can I find the complete accurate history of 60 Control? What about all those who died in the line of duty in Westchester?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

What about all those who died in the line of duty in Westchester?

New York State Fallen Firefighters Memorial, Police Officers Memorial and EMS Memorial in Albany, NY, along with the names of every other brother and sister who died in the great State of New York doing a job they loved, protecting life and property.

Edited April 12, 2011 by bvfdjc316

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Last I knew there was a rotating display at DES.

Also all of the museums you mentioned? Who generally takes the time to go to them? That is my only point and I agree with the one brother you did seem to get defensive. I for one wouldn't care if there was one, with the exception of the use of tax payer dollars for it.