Irvington Hazmat suicide

[ny10570 745]

When done properly these homemade hydrogen sulfide suicide kits works very well. Ideally the victim chooses a secure enclosed space, clearly identifies the hazardous area, initiates the reaction, and calls 911. The fastest response isn't going to save this person. The catch is what happens when you catch them before they're ready for you. For instance the victim happened to choose your favorite mid afternoon nap spot for their suicide and you stumble upon it just as its getting going. H2S is extremely flammable and heavier than air. If you do decide to break the window and rescue them, that car will still be filled with H2S. At concentrations these homemade devices are fully capable of producing, a single breath is enough to be fatal. Keep in mind waiting for hazmat assures the patient will die. On the other hand if they're already not breathing they're too far gone for you to help. Treatments in the field are going to be limited to symptom management, to combat he bronchospasm, pulmonary edema, respiratory failure and cardiovascular collapse. The only antidotes I'm aware of aren't carried around here, amyl nitrite ('poppers' for all the party people on here) or sodium sulfite.

[FFFORD 27]

My fire department had a formal training session in regards to these types of suicides. you gave a great overview of the topic. Although I dont know if most patients will initiate the 9-1-1 response. That is why we also trained for the civilian who discovered the body and entered the car, especially in the event the victim did not label the vehicle. If you catch them as they initiate the response, you can try to rescue them, but USE EXTREME CAUTION. I would not attempt rescue without a SCBA, or even a full class A or B Hazmat suit as it might not be H2S after all. Not worth risking your life in a situation like this. If I recall correctly, if you smell a "rotten egg" odor, you are in big trouble already. H2S will inhibit the cytochrome oxidase pathway in the body similar to Cyanide. This will lead to hypoxia and death. I am only working on a couple hours of sleep right now but I do not recall any treatment Pre-hospital providers can provide besides a secure airway. You very well may be correct on the "poppers" though. I will have to go back through my notes, but I think in the ED we will hyperbarracs and assess for MetHb. But overall, I think the chances they succeed are high.

Anyone else catch that the license plate was a "MD" plate???

[EMSer 15]

Anyone else catch that the license plate was a "MD" plate???

The man's father is supposedly a doctor in Irvington/Dobbs Ferry. Unfortunately Lohud/The Journal News are their typical low life selfs for not blurring out that plate

[JBE 328]

I was giving a drill about this a few months ago. I prefaced it with the fact that this was a very popular form of Suicide in Japan. Then made a joke about it being another popular Japanese import along with anime octopus tentacle p***. Needless to say, it didn't go over too well with some members of my tour.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I heard about something going on in Irvington but couldn't find what was up. Just found the article and all I can say is at least he was courteous enough to leave a note. I am gonna assume that the PD was on scene first, so was the note taped to the drivers side window? Was the tub of chemicals in a spot where first responders could observe them? I haven't really heard of this as a method of suicide here in the States until now. You wonder now about copy cat suicides and the patients not leaving any signs and 1st responders getting injured. This may be a class that all 1st responders should attend!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I heard about something going on in Irvington but couldn't find what was up. Just found the article and all I can say is at least he was courteous enough to leave a note. I am gonna assume that the PD was on scene first, so was the note taped to the drivers side window? Was the tub of chemicals in a spot where first responders could observe them? I haven't really heard of this as a method of suicide here in the States until now. You wonder now about copy cat suicides and the patients not leaving any signs and 1st responders getting injured. This may be a class that all 1st responders should attend!

There were a few cases in Ca over the past 24 months or so of this happening. My chief actually sent around an email today identifying the event in Irvington and giving instructions on what to do if we encounter an event like this.

[EMSer 15]

This may be a class that all 1st responders should attend!

Just read that this 'chemical suicide' originated from Japan and it all over internet message boards.

Very scary stuff. I'm not sure what the exact chemical compounds are, but this may be very dangerous to emergency workers if the person that dies isn't kind enough to leave a warning sign

[ny10570 745]

The gas is created using easy to find household cleaners. If the victim follows the guidelines of these online posts efforts are made to isolate the scene and warn responders. It was a big deal in Japan and there have been dozens of cases in the US. Its already out there.

[CTFF 65]

They had one recently in New Britain, CT.

Any of the guys who've been to classes or lectured on do you have any links for training purposes?

[mercurygrandmarquis1 0]

Back in training for NYPD Auxiliary we were warned about this with people doing this in cars. We were told to call for FD Hazmat and even if we saw them moving and there was signs of life we are supposed to wait for FD hazmat

[Lt2007 2]

To answer your question,there were notes on both the drivers window as well as the passenger window stating "Call Haz Mat".

[NJMedic 96]

We have had several here in New Jersey including two in the last year. I've conducted educational sessions for local responders in the area. One was in a car foud in the parking lot og a warehouse complex on a weekend with signs posted on the windows. The other one was in a bathroon of a single family dewelling.

[Guest TCA-ALS25]

This is becoming a BIG issue down my neck of the woods. Check out the google search:

Chester County HM Suicides

In one case, the IC was 10 YARDS away from the car and he was still overcome by the fumes.

Nasty stuff - stay safe folks!

[dougeng41 1]

Check out the info on Chemical Suicides at the National Hazmat Fusion Center website. It is located under alerts half way down the home page.

My link

[x129K 1,393]

Check out the info on Chemical Suicides at the National Hazmat Fusion Center website. It is located under alerts half way down the home page.

My link

EXCELLENT LINK - THANK YOU!

I have printed out all of the available info from there and will be putting together an awareness level training session for my department and job...

[Guest squarewheels]

if a cfrd engine pulls up to a scene like this, i would say don scba mask, stretch a fog tipped precautionary line, pop all the windows and pull the vic away from the scene. bag them with o2 and do compressions while still masked up and do your best until hazmat arrives. would this be a mistake.

[ny10570 745]

I would ask for clarification from your agency however if the vic is not moving they're already dead. This is an extremely effective method. FDNY EMS offers us the out of waiting for HazMat before even attempting to open the vehicle essentially assuring the patient is good and dead. If it were me and I saw motion from the victim I would don my APR or in your case SCBA, break the glass, and extricate the victim being careful not to spill the chemicals. The line would come in handy for immediate decon, but I wouldn't wait for it. H2S vapor is only a skin irritant.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

I would ask for clarification from your agency however if the vic is not moving they're already dead. This is an extremely effective method. FDNY EMS offers us the out of waiting for HazMat before even attempting to open the vehicle essentially assuring the patient is good and dead. If it were me and I saw motion from the victim I would don my APR or in your case SCBA, break the glass, and extricate the victim being careful not to spill the chemicals. The line would come in handy for immediate decon, but I wouldn't wait for it. H2S vapor is only a skin irritant.

Whoa, that's a big assumption. They might not be dead if the they didn't use H2S, didn't mix it properly, didn't have the right chemicals to start, didn't pass out from an unrelated drug overdose prior to mixing the chemicals, aren't too stupid to follow internet directions. Just because a note on the window says call haz-mat doesn't mean it was H2S.

Sure, it's an extremely effective method if you do it right. If they screw it up they may just be unconscious. I don't think we can just say "if they're not moving they're dead". We may have to await haz-mat or other resources but we shouldn't treat it like a DOA just because we think it may be a H2S suicide.

How'd they determine this guy was dead anyway?

[ny10570 745]

I never said pronounce and walk away. I'm talking risk vs reward of entering this environment without the appropriate resources present. If it is done right then it will kill the patient. You really can't do this one half way short skimping on components in which case a few minutes more will get the job done. If they used the wrong chemicals then they won't be producing H2S but some other chemical that I have no idea how to protect myself against. If they never mixed the chemicals and just ODed then I go back to, signs of life I force entry.

They're still going to get worked and brought to the ER. However, the risk of exposing yourself to a lung full of H2S or by some horribly unlucky chain of events ignighting said car full of H2S is not in my opinion worth forcing entry into a possible hazmat incident to save someone who possibly intentionally placed themselves in this situation. Once they are safely removed and deconed they would receive my full efforts at resuscitation.