Pelham struggles to find budget $ for the FD

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Government Struggles to Find Budget Dollars for Pelham Fire Department

Pelham's Village Hall deliberates how to fund fire department's needs as it faces tightest budget in 20 years

Faced with its most challenging budget in nearly 20 years, Pelham’s government continues to deliberate how it will upgrade the fire department’s outdated equipment.

http://pelham.patch.com/articles/government-struggles-to-find-budget-dollars-for-pelham-fire-department

[x635 4,066]

Wow. That is ridiclous, especially with the taxes people pay to live in Pelham. Isn't Pelham and Pelham Manor one of the wealthiest areas in the country?

Chief Stone seems to be doing an excellent job with the limited resources he's allocated. From what I have been told, Pelham FD has been making strides in recent years from where they used to be 10-15 years ago.

I can't believe some of the absurd suggestions that the Village Board is making. Like outfitting Chief Stone's personal vehicle to be his work car, and to use DPW workers and crosstrain them as volunteer firefighters? First, that takes away from DPW's job, which means other things wouldn't get done. Especially if the DPW workers get injured on a fire scene. Is Pelham going to cover them as a firefighter or DPW worker? Are they going to force this on DPW? And if DPW is union, are they going to take away jobs from the Pelham FD local?

They definetly should seriously consider a merger with New Rochelle or Eastchester. It seems like Pelham has been cheap on their FD/EMS spending on and off for years, and (I feel) would benefit in multiple ways by collaborating with New Ro or Eastchester.

And three firefighters on duty isn't even a full Engine or Truck company, and doesn't comply with the 2 in/2 out rule. Do the Pelham FD Lt's count in that number, or seperate?

[helicopper 1,050]

Stone is also worried about the number of fire fighters he has available. “We do have the personnel in place right now," said Stone. "The initial response is three men to a fire scene which is absolutely essential. [but] even with three men responding, tactically, that may not be enough."

Three? That's essential? I'd say it's pathetic.

OSHA / NFPA = 2 in 2 out

ISO = 12 + an IC (career), 36 + an IC (volunteer)

and THREE is their initial response. How is that being allowed to happen?

[99subi 121]

Damn, i had no idea they had this kind of issue down there.Shame on the village. I wish i had the answers. Id love to see a copy of the budget to see where all those tax dollars go... Anyone know where one could find that info?

[exmrvfc 0]

Three? That's essential? I'd say it's pathetic.

OSHA / NFPA = 2 in 2 out

ISO = 12 + an IC (career), 36 + an IC (volunteer)

and THREE is their initial response. How is that being allowed to happen?

Barry is better at the ISO info but I am pretty sure ISO does not require 36 volunteers at the scene. They require 36 on the roster assuming 1/3 will be available to respond getting you the 12 on scene.

[NJMedic 96]

Although not a good precription for a long career but Chief Stone should just come out and say that 3 firefighters on a first due engine will not be enough to effect a serious firefight and will do little to actaully search for a rescue a trapped person. Why suger coat things?

Did Pelhem just get a fire department, are they surprised that he FD has to be funded, even if it is at a patheic level? What have they do in years part? Bake sales, Pitch a penny on the highway?

Edited March 24, 2011 by NJMedic

[WCFCX613 6]

Pelham And Pelham Manor Should Contract With New Rochelle Fire Department, For The Money They Are Spending New Rochelle Could Place A Fully Staffed Ladder ( 4+1 ) In Pelham Manor And A Fully Staffed Engine ( 3+1 )In Pelham, Eliminating Two Paid Chief's Positions And Providing 2 Engines And 1 Ladder On ALL Pelham Manor And Pelham Alarms In Addition To Responding On EMS Calls. A Box Alarm In Pelham Manor Would Get NRFD Engine 24, Pelham Engine, Pelham Manor Ladder And Car 2302. A Box Alarm In Pelham Would Get NRFD Engine 22, Pelham Engine, Pelham Manor Ladder And Car 2302. Consolidation Is The Wave Of The Future, The Pelhams Would Be Wise To Adapt A Consolidation Plan In The Near Future.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Pelham And Pelham Manor Should Contract With New Rochelle Fire Department, For The Money They Are Spending New Rochelle Could Place A Fully Staffed Ladder ( 4+1 ) In Pelham Manor And A Fully Staffed Engine ( 3+1 )In Pelham, Eliminating Two Paid Chief's Positions And Providing 2 Engines And 1 Ladder On ALL Pelham Manor And Pelham Alarms In Addition To Responding On EMS Calls. A Box Alarm In Pelham Manor Would Get NRFD Engine 24, Pelham Engine, Pelham Manor Ladder And Car 2302. A Box Alarm In Pelham Would Get NRFD Engine 22, Pelham Engine, Pelham Manor Ladder And Car 2302. Consolidation Is The Wave Of The Future, The Pelhams Would Be Wise To Adapt A Consolidation Plan In The Near Future.

Edited March 25, 2011 by efdcapt115

[helicopper 1,050]

The Village of Pelham Budget, as requested.

Village of Pelham Adopted Budget 2010-2011.pdf

[spin_the_wheel 460]

What type of response does the Volunteer members play in the everyday runs? Are they only alerted for workers?

I would have to say the most successful, and maybe the only consolidation in the area I have ever heard of are the towns that make up the North Hudson Regional FD in Jersey.

[wraftery 1,275]

Comments like these, "contract with New Rochelle Fire Department" push the consolidation discussion away. I don't think you meant this in a malicious way toward the career firefighters in the Pelhams, but let me ask you; under your scenario of "contracting" with New Rochelle Fire Department, what then would be done with the career firefighters who have been and continue to be dedicated to the task of protecting the citizens of the Pelhams?

Then you talk about "Consolidation is the wave of the future"... etc, now that in my opinion is where you should have started, not by throwing out a comment like you did which would be construed (taken on it's own) as hostile to Pelham career firefighters.

Career personnel in departments like the Pelhams are not at fault because the system is all screwed up. They've only done what they were hired to do, in many cases decades ago, and done so with all the honor and dignity that is the hallmark of ALL professional firefighters...no matter who they work for.

I know wcfcx613 very well and I assure you he is not demeaning the Pelham brothers. He knows NRFD is in no position to cover Pelham using their present NRFD staff. NR would have to hire new people to do this or employ the ready to operate Pelham staff. I believe his intention was to leave the Pelham staff in place and fill out the assignment with NRFD Companies and use the NRFD DC as the Command Officer. I think he was saying to Pelham "Look what you can get for the same price."

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Not that I know anything about the fire service, but couldn't NRFD do with Pehlam, what WCDPS did with the Town Of Ossining PD?Don't they have the same training?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Wow. That is ridiclous, especially with the taxes people pay to live in Pelham. Isn't Pelham and Pelham Manor one of the wealthiest areas in the country?

The people being wealthy and paying high taxes does not mean they can afford the services needed. I have a friend who lives there and they pay $40,000 in property tax, but only about $8,000 goes to the village (the rest is school & county). Now there are only a few 1,000 homes. That does not leave a lot of money to pay for police, fire, dpw etc.

[Bnechis 3,961]

ISO = 12 + an IC (career), 36 + an IC (volunteer)

Barry is better at the ISO info but I am pretty sure ISO does not require 36 volunteers at the scene. They require 36 on the roster assuming 1/3 will be available to respond getting you the 12 on scene.

ISO does not use career and volunteer, it uses On-duty and On-call. On-duty means in the fire house ready to respond (paid or not) and On-call means they will respond when paged (volunteer or paid recall).

On-duty is 12 + 1 IC

On-call is 36 + 1 IC or 3 on-call for every 1 in the station.

These numbers are on EVERY CALL. If you had 12 career ff's and they worked 24/7/365 and never left work that would count, now of course that does not happen, so you need enough to staff at 12+1 based on the number of hourse you have them work.

The 36 on-call is for every response, so again how many do you need on the roster to get 36 on a call?

ISO knows that on-call fires do more damage because of the delay and the fire will be larger when you arrive.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I know wcfcx613 very well and I assure you he is not demeaning the Pelham brothers. He knows NRFD is in no position to cover Pelham using their present NRFD staff. NR would have to hire new people to do this or employ the ready to operate Pelham staff. I believe his intention was to leave the Pelham staff in place and fill out the assignment with NRFD Companies and use the NRFD DC as the Command Officer. I think he was saying to Pelham "Look what you can get for the same price."

I agree. John ment to include them not push them out of the way.

[Bnechis 3,961]

What type of response does the Volunteer members play in the everyday runs? Are they only alerted for workers?

According to the last ISO report they average less then 2 volunteers per call. That was a number of years ago and I think that number maybe considered very high now (as in I think the average has dropped).

Edited March 25, 2011 by Bnechis

[norestriction 10]

what are the run totals for a Village of 6500 as of 2000 ? Isnt there a possibility that the Village cant afford to maintain what is has. Was there a need for a career dept ( serious question) and if so does the career end need to man the firehouse 24 hours a day.

I live in a Village of 12,000 and we are strictly volunteers with 450 runs a year with a budget of $375,000 with $150,000 of that going to United Water , I would love some of Pelhams budget

[JM15 386]

Someone correct me If I am wrong but they do about 900ish calls a year

[norestriction 10]

Someone correct me If I am wrong but they do about 900ish calls a year

Thats a lot for such a small Village , is that medical also

[JM15 386]

Yes

[JFLYNN 681]

what are the run totals for a Village of 6500 as of 2000 ? Isnt there a possibility that the Village cant afford to maintain what is has. Was there a need for a career dept ( serious question) and if so does the career end need to man the firehouse 24 hours a day.

I live in a Village of 12,000 and we are strictly volunteers with 450 runs a year with a budget of $375,000 with $150,000 of that going to United Water , I would love some of Pelhams budget

Where in Westchester are you? An annual budget of $375,000 seems low compared to what I have seen elsewhere for similar sized communities in Westchester? Does this figure include LOSAP (if applicable), workers comp, health care (if applicable), apparatus, fuel, maintenance, facilities and equipment, training, etc.? Also, any tax credits or rebates given to members if applicable should be factored in to the total budget.

[norestriction 10]

Yes

it all makes sense then.. you want protection you need to fund it.

I will say it - cut the DPW budget

[JM15 386]

According to the PDF budget that was linked in this thread they responded to 904 calls during the year 2007-2008...

- 369 EMS calls

- 7 Vehicle Fires

- 86 MVA's

-123 False alarms

- 94 Hazardous conditions (Wires down, Spills etc.)

- 97 Service Calls ( pump outs, water leaks, tree hazards)

- 14 Outside Fires

- 35 Structure Fire Calls (From smoke alarms to fully involved events)

Also to note: They gave Mutual Aid 11 times and only received mutual aid twice?

[Cos Cob 215 7]

I believe the report said about 900 calls with over 1/3 being e.m.s.

[norestriction 10]

Where in Westchester are you? An annual budget of $375,000 seems low compared to what I have seen elsewhere for similar sized communities in Westchester? Does this figure include LOSAP (if applicable), workers comp, health care (if applicable), apparatus, fuel, maintenance, facilities and equipment, training, etc.? Also, any tax credits or rebates given to members if applicable should be factored in to the total budget.

chief Dobbs Ferry -that is our budget and we must use it for gear,training ,repairs to rigs (3 engines 1 tower ladder a utility and chiefs cars), equipment and other odds and ends including our yearly medicals from Partners in safety.. Fuel is paid by the Village and if you own a home you save $2000 of your $20,000 tax bill.

Chief we do a lot with a little we dont get Greenburg money and it is true no one volunteers like they used to but if they had to staff Dobbs what would the board do if 3 million was needed so right now they get 24 hours of protection at A DISCOUNTED price

not $375,000 you must deduct United Waters money

2 % money is used for the good of the members

Edited March 25, 2011 by norestriction

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I know wcfcx613 very well and I assure you he is not demeaning the Pelham brothers. He knows NRFD is in no position to cover Pelham using their present NRFD staff. NR would have to hire new people to do this or employ the ready to operate Pelham staff. I believe his intention was to leave the Pelham staff in place and fill out the assignment with NRFD Companies and use the NRFD DC as the Command Officer. I think he was saying to Pelham "Look what you can get for the same price."

Edited March 25, 2011 by efdcapt115

[WCFCX613 6]

Comments like these, "contract with New Rochelle Fire Department" push the consolidation discussion away. I don't think you meant this in a malicious way toward the career firefighters in the Pelhams, but let me ask you; under your scenario of "contracting" with New Rochelle Fire Department, what then would be done with the career firefighters who have been and continue to be dedicated to the task of protecting the citizens of the Pelhams?

Then you talk about "Consolidation is the wave of the future"... etc, now that in my opinion is where you should have started, not by throwing out a comment like you did which would be construed (taken on it's own) as hostile to Pelham career firefighters.

Career personnel in departments like the Pelhams are not at fault because the system is all screwed up. They've only done what they were hired to do, in many cases decades ago, and done so with all the honor and dignity that is the hallmark of ALL professional firefighters...no matter who they work for.

Note To efdcapt115 : The Pelham And Pelham Manor Career Staff Would Become Part Of FDNR Local 273 And The Pelham Manor Ladder Would Be A Quint So It Will Have The Ability To Put Water On A Fire Pending The Arrival Of Additional Engine Companies. There Is NO Hostility Towards Anyone Involved My Friend, Just A Suggestion That Westchester Has TOO Many Small Fire Departments That Are Hurting Financially And Could Do MUCH Better Consolidating With Larger Departments.

[bigrig77 95]

Would be nice if all these little towns would just give up their little kingdoms and consolidate for the betterment of the county. I know this is a crazy concept but it could be done over a short period of time. Seems like the mayors and chief's are dragging their feet cause no one wants to give up his little spot in the sandbox.

[Dinosaur 844]

Is the police budget affected too?

[Bnechis 3,961]

I will say it - cut the DPW budget

At $2.2m there is not a lot to cut.

Which areas should be cut: Street maintenance, snow removal, street lighting, traffic lighting, sanitary and storm water system maintenance, Fleet maintenance for all village vehicles, mintain parks, maintain 1/2 of water system (other 1/2 is united water) plus meter reading. The have 9 employee's

Edited March 25, 2011 by Bnechis