Southwest seeks its next type of plane

[x635 4,066]

Southwest seeks its next type of plane

Austin Business Journal - by Matt Joyce, Dallas Business Journal

Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 1:45pm CDT

Southwest Airlines President and CEO Gary Kelly has raised the prospect that the carrier could turn to airplane manufacturers other than Boeing as it seeks a new generation of fuel-efficient aircraft.

Read more: http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2011/03/23/southwest-seeks-its-next-type-of-plane.html

[mfc2257 464]

It's not the plane it's the engine as I understand it. They want Boeing and Rolls Royce or Pratt and Whitney (I forget who's engines are on their 737) to work with Boeing to adapt more fuel efficient engines like those used on similar sized Airbus and Embraer products that won't currently fit due to the lo-pro stance of the 737 (noted in photos by the oblong intake of 737 turbofans).

It has been a while since I read about this so some of my info may be a bit foggy.

If I'm correct however I'm wondering why Boeing doesn't adapt the landing gear from the 757 which is a longer kissing cousin to the 737 which would give it a taller stance thus allowing the more effecient engines to be mounted without developing a whole new powerplant. Boeing could the. Retrofit the existing Southwest fleet to the same spec and retain a huge client.

[NJMedic 96]

I alsoheard recently that SW wanted to venture into the internationa market. That being the case the 737 will not work.

[calhobs 110]

Southwest will be flying out of Westchester County Airport soon, once the takeover of AirTran is done.

[newsbuff 286]

I alsoheard recently that SW wanted to venture into the internationa market. That being the case the 737 will not work.

737's can fly international. They have the range, but not the capacity.

[firedude 985]

Southwest is waiting for Boeing to announce their plans for a more fuel efficient 737 model. They already have the Boeing 737 NG (next generation), but it is not more fuel efficient then past models. If Boeing does not announce plans for a new model, then Southwest will likely look into buying the Airbus A320 NEO (new engine option). The Airbus A320 NEO is more fuel efficient and has a redesigned cabin. It will have a similar range and payload as the Boeing 737.

Yes, Southwest Airlines will be coming to the Westchester County Airport (HPN) sometime this yea when the deal goes through. Southwest has not announced what they plan to do with HPN service, but it should be interesting how they compete with jetBlue on some of the Florida routes.

[Alpinerunner 61]

The A320NEO with the PurePower PW1100G engines is where it's at. I may be biased because I do engineering for P&W, but this engine is a HUGE technological leep forward in efficiency with its geared-down fan. It allows the compressor and turbine to spin faster than the fan, which is more efficient, and the main fan to spin slower which reduces noise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_PW1000G

[x635 4,066]

I had heard that Boeing was designing the next-generation 737 with a version to meet Southwest's needs.

Maybe this is a ploy by Southwest to Boeing to shape up their operations. They have a lot of delayed deliveries, and increasing competion.

But, since Southwest only uses 737's, and having one type of aircraft in their fleet is touted in ther business model, it would probaly cost them quite a bit to change and add another type of aircraft.

[firedude 985]

Seth, your are right. There is a lot of preasusre on Boeing. They feel that if they don't make a more fuel efficiant 737, then they will loose a big client. Cuttently, Southwest has 547 aircraft, all are variants of the 737. They have 133 on order with boeing, with 37 options. Soon, Southwest will start accepting delivery of 20 new Boeing 737-800 (aka the 738).

Southwest Airlines Co. increased pressure on Boeing Co. to upgrade its top-selling 737 model with more fuel-efficient engines, as Airbus SAS did with a competing plane, because waiting a decade for an all-new jet is too long.

Southwest's Kelly Pushes for Boeing Decision on New 737 Engines

[helicopper 1,050]

Southwest is waiting for Boeing to announce their plans for a more fuel efficient 737 model. They already have the Boeing 737 NG (next generation), but it is not more fuel efficient then past models. If Boeing does not announce plans for a new model, then Southwest will likely look into buying the Airbus A320 NEO (new engine option). The Airbus A320 NEO is more fuel efficient and has a redesigned cabin. It will have a similar range and payload as the Boeing 737.

Yes, Southwest Airlines will be coming to the Westchester County Airport (HPN) sometime this yea when the deal goes through. Southwest has not announced what they plan to do with HPN service, but it should be interesting how they compete with jetBlue on some of the Florida routes.

I'm sure they're going to compete on the Florida routes but it would be great to see other destinations added to the HPN schedule. Unfortunately, this is limited mostly by Westchester's size and continued obstruction of growth and development. The runway length limits the types of aircraft and fuel loads so, at least according to some airline people I've spoken to, there is no option for longer distance flights. The terminal size, parking situation, "voluntary restraint from flying", and taxes/surcharges/fees all make future growth a tough sell to an airline.

Hopefully the current administration looks more kindly at the airport and doesn't try to thwart growth and development.

[x635 4,066]

BTW, what is Southwest doing with the 727's it aqquired in the buyout?

Too bad they don't have a direct route from Austin to HPN. But now I have two airline choices to connect in Florida to get to Westchester County Airport. Not like I will be going anywhere anytime soon.

[firedude 985]

Seth, Airtran does not fly the 727, they fly the 717 and the 737. Southwest is going to acquire both aircraft in the deal. Southeast will add the 717 and the 737 to it's fleet and paint the planes in Southwest colors. I am really hoping for a HPN-LAS (las vegas) route, but I don't see it happening any time soon. Airtran only carries on 20% of the passenger traffic at HPN. In comparison, jetBlue carries 40% of the passenger traffic at HPN.

[helicopper 1,050]

Seth, Airtran does not fly the 727, they fly the 717 and the 737. Southwest is going to acquire both aircraft in the deal. Southeast will add the 717 and the 737 to it's fleet and paint the planes in Southwest colors. I am really hoping for a HPN-LAS (las vegas) route, but I don't see it happening any time soon. Airtran only carries on 20% of the passenger traffic at HPN. In comparison, jetBlue carries 40% of the passenger traffic at HPN.

HPN to LAS was one of the routes I specifically asked JetBlue about and they said the runways not long enough for the run required with that fuel load so unless they extend the runway over 684 or knock down some very poorly located houses, we're not gonna see that.

[calhobs 110]

HPN to LAS was one of the routes I specifically asked JetBlue about and they said the runways not long enough for the run required with that fuel load so unless they extend the runway over 684 or knock down some very poorly located houses, we're not gonna see that.

With the runway at HPN being 6548 ft and the runway being 7000 ft at LGA is lenght really the problem, or is it combined with what is on the approach to HPN. I also heard that it's the fuel farm at HPN that it could not handle the fuel amount needed to add flights to LAS. But once again that is just hearsy.

[helicopper 1,050]

With the runway at HPN being 6548 ft and the runway being 7000 ft at LGA is lenght really the problem, or is it combined with what is on the approach to HPN. I also heard that it's the fuel farm at HPN that it could not handle the fuel amount needed to add flights to LAS. But once again that is just hearsy.

There are no direct flights from LGA to LAS either, probably for the same reason.

I doubt it is fuel availability. One FBO moved over 38,000 gallons of fuel just the other day so if they can do that in a day, fuel for single flights can't be the issue.

The way they explained it to me, with the fuel load required to make it to Las Vegas they would be too heavy to use the runway at Westchester. Seems to make sense, especially since there are none going out of LGA either.

[calhobs 110]

There are no direct flights from LGA to LAS either, probably for the same reason.

I doubt it is fuel availability. One FBO moved over 38,000 gallons of fuel just the other day so if they can do that in a day, fuel for single flights can't be the issue.

The way they explained it to me, with the fuel load required to make it to Las Vegas they would be too heavy to use the runway at Westchester. Seems to make sense, especially since there are none going out of LGA either.

I was unaware that there where no direct flights to LAS from LGA, so what you are saying Chris makes a lot on sense then why HPN does not have flights to LAS, thank you for input.

[helicopper 1,050]

I was unaware that there where no direct flights to LAS from LGA, so what you are saying Chris makes a lot on sense then why HPN does not have flights to LAS, thank you for input.

Neither was I until I asked about flights from HPN to LAS. I think they'd like to see more opportunities out of HPN also but they're limited by the terminal and runway size not to mention resistance by airport opponents.

[x635 4,066]

Maybe with more fuel efficient planes, in the future, lol. They could AT LEAST, right now, fly to one of their major hubs, like O'Hare or Baltimore, then you can connect anywhere.

Is there even any more room to park at HPN? I haven't been there in years. When I did, they had, but didn't use the boarding gates. You got on and off the plane via ramp, much like jetBlue at Long Beach CA. The terminal was small and cramped (the new one, not the Quanset hut), and there was no place to get food or beverage while you waited for you flight. One of the worst airports I've ever flown out of. Which is a shame, because it has so much potential.

[ny10570 745]

I don't claim to know everything about air travel, but my non-stop from LGA to San Francisco seems like a longer flight than Vegas. I'm guessing length plus departure angle is the problem.

[firedude 985]

Maybe with more fuel efficient planes, in the future, lol. They could AT LEAST, right now, fly to one of their major hubs, like O'Hare or Baltimore, then you can connect anywhere.

Is there even any more room to park at HPN? I haven't been there in years. When I did, they had, but didn't use the boarding gates. You got on and off the plane via ramp, much like jetBlue at Long Beach CA. The terminal was small and cramped (the new one, not the Quanset hut), and there was no place to get food or beverage while you waited for you flight. One of the worst airports I've ever flown out of. Which is a shame, because it has so much potential.

Things haven't really changed at HPN. The only changes are more seating and a food stand, both after security. They have also re-aranged the check-in area to fit all the airlines. And they still don't have enough room. Cape Air who flies to Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard and Lebanon NH, has to fly out of a FBO with no TSA because there is no room in the terminal. There are still 6 Gates and 2 have jetbridges. Only jetBlue, Airtan and United Express (opperated by Shutle America), use the jetbridges. They did add a covered walkway on the apron so passengers don't get as wet if they are walking to their plane or back to the terminal. The Parking is still a mess, there is just not enough room. I am still suprised, but am very happy that the observation deck has remained open. They now limit the number of people who can go through TSA. That way the boarding area does not become so packed.

On a side note, the General Aviation traffic at HPN has been very good.

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Edited March 24, 2011 by firedude