Consolidation in Westchester County

[firedude 985]

I'd like to hear your thoughts about consolidating departments in Westchetser County? Which departments should consolidate? Also what are the Pro and Cons of colsolidation? Does it really save money?

FD: There are 60 fire department in westchester county:

Armonk, Ardsley, Archville, Briarcliff Manor, Bedford, Banksville,Bedford Hills, Buchanan, Chappaqua, Croton-on-Hudson, Croton Falls, Dobbs Ferry, Continental Village, Eastchester, Fairview, Elmsford, Grasslands, Goldens Bridge, Greenville, Harrison, Hartsdale, Hawthorne, Hastings-on-Hudson, Katonah, Irvington, Larchmont, Mamaroneck Village,Mamaroneck Town, Millwood, Mohegan Lake, Montrose, Mount Kisco, Mount Vernon, New Rochelle, Ossining, Peekskill, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Pleasantville, Pocantico Hills, Pound Ridge, Purchase, Port Chester, Rye Brook, Scarsdale, Rye, Somers, South Salem, Sleepy Hollow, Tarrytown, Thornwood, Valhalla, Montrose VA, Verplanck, Vista, West Harrison, Yonkers White Plains, Metro North, Yorktown

PD: There are 43 local police departmnts, not including county, state or federal law enforcement:

Ardsley PD, Bedford PD, Briarcliff Manor PD, Bronxville PD, Buchanan PD, Croton PD, Dobbs Ferry PD, Eastchester PD, Elmsford PD, Greenburgh PD, Harrison PD, Hastings PD, Irvington PD, Larchmont PD, Lewisboro PD, Mamaroneck Town PD,Mamaroneck Village PD, Mount Kisco PD, Mount Pleasant PD, City of Mount Vernon PD, New Castle PD, City of New Rochelle PD, North Castle PD, North Salem PD, Ossining Town PD, Ossining Village PD,City of Peekskill PD,Pelham Manor PD, Pelham Village PD, Pleasantville PD, Port Chester PD, Pound Ridge PD, Rye Brook PD, City of Rye PD, Scarsdale PD, Sleepy Hollow PD, Somers PD, Tarrytown PD, Tuckahoe PD, City of White Plains PD, City of Yonkers PD, Yorktown PD,

EMS: There are 41 EMS providers in Westchester County:

Amonk FD-EMS, Ardsley - Secor VAC, Bedford FD-EMS, Briarcliff FD-EMS,Chappaqua VAC, Cortlandt VAC,Croton FD EMS, Cortlandt Medics, Dobbs Ferry VAC, Eastchester VAC, Elmsford FD-EMS, Empire State AMB, Empress Ambulance Service,Harrison EMS, Hastings FD-EMS, Hawthorne FD-EMS, Irvington VAC, Katonah-Bedford Hills VAC,Larchmont - Town of Mamaroneck VAC, Lewisboro VAC, Mamaroneck EMS, Mount Kisco VAC, Mohegan VFA VAC, Ossining VAC, North Salem VAC,Pleasantville VAC, Peekskill VAC, Pound Ridge VAC, Port Chester / Rye / Rye Brook VAC, Sleepy Hollow EMS, Scarsdale VAC, Somers FD EMS, LifeNet of New York (AirMethods) (formely Stat Flight), Tarrytown VAC, Trans-Care AMB, Valhalla VAC, Verplanck FD EMS, Vista FD EMS, Westchester EMS (No.Westchester Medics), Yorktown VAC,

Also, what ever happend to Larchmont FD and Town of Mamamroneck FD combining?

Edited March 19, 2011 by firedude

[DaRock98 76]

I am going to go with the area I live in The Town of Mt. Pleasant Fire Departments. I think they should consolidated Hawthorne, Thornwood and Valhalla down to 5 commissioners, 1 chief, 2 assistants with 2 Ladders (1 Tower and 1 straight stick) along with 1 Heavy Rescue and 3 engines out of a total of 3 stations. I would say that Hawthorne would be HQ (being centrally located) housing an engine and the Heavy Rescue with Thornwood housing station 2 with a ladder and an engine and Valhalla being station 3 housing another 1 and 1. I am in no way shape or form a person who has any knowledge in this subject and I am just throwing my thoughts out there in a hypothetical situation.

This would essentially eliminate 10 commissioners, 6 chiefs/ chief cars, 2 firehouses, 2 ladder trucks, 1 heavy rescue, 2 engines and 1 rescue engine if my math is correct.

***Again this was only me doing this for fun and not anything else***

[Bnechis 3,961]

If we keep beating up the tax payer, while toning out for any available driver over and over, your "dead horse" is either the taxpayer or it will be the tax payer beating us up.

Some of the proposals in Albany will bankrupt most Fire Districts and small municipalities. If they go through, you will see either FD consolidation or no coverage.

Particularly in Westchester where depts spend plenty of money and still need 5-10 mutual aid depts to handle a bedroom fire.

[JM15 386]

We should start by consolidating the consolidation threads

Bnechis anymore information about these proposals in Albany?

[helicopper 1,050]

I'd like to hear your thoughts about consolidating departments in Westchetser County? Which departments should consolidate? Also what are the Pro and Cons of colsolidation? Does it really save money?

PD: There are 43 local police departmnts, not including county, state or federal law enforcement:

Ardsley PD, Bedford PD, Briarcliff Manor PD, Bronxville PD, Buchanan PD, Croton PD, Dobbs Ferry PD, Eastchester PD, Elmsford PD, Greenburgh PD, Harrison PD, Hastings PD, Irvington PD, Larchmont PD, Lewisboro PD, Mamaroneck Town PD,Mamaroneck Village PD, Mount Kisco PD, Mount Pleasant PD, City of Mount Vernon PD, New Castle PD, City of New Rochelle PD, North Castle PD, North Salem PD, Ossining Town PD, Ossining Village PD,City of Peekskill PD,Pelham Manor PD, Pelham Village PD, Pleasantville PD, Port Chester PD, Pound Ridge PD, Rye Brook PD, City of Rye PD, Scarsdale PD, Sleepy Hollow PD, Somers PD, Tarrytown PD, Tuckahoe PD, City of White Plains PD, City of Yonkers PD, Yorktown PD,

EMS: There are 41 EMS providers in Westchester County:

Amonk FD-EMS, Ardsley - Secor VAC, Bedford FD-EMS, Briarcliff FD-EMS,Chappaqua VAC, Cortlandt VAC,Croton FD EMS, Cortlandt Medics, Dobbs Ferry VAC, Eastchester VAC, Elmsford FD-EMS, Empire State AMB, Empress Ambulance Service,Harrison EMS, Hastings FD-EMS, Hawthorne FD-EMS, Irvington VAC, Katonah-Bedford Hills VAC,Larchmont - Town of Mamaroneck VAC, Lewisboro VAC, Mamaroneck EMS, Mount Kisco VAC, Mohegan VFA VAC, Ossining VAC, North Salem VAC,Pleasantville VAC, Peekskill VAC, Pound Ridge VAC, Port Chester / Rye / Rye Brook VAC, Sleepy Hollow EMS, Scarsdale VAC, Somers FD EMS, LifeNet of New York (AirMethods) (formely Stat Flight), Tarrytown VAC, Trans-Care AMB, Valhalla VAC, Verplanck FD EMS, Vista FD EMS, Westchester EMS (No.Westchester Medics), Yorktown VAC,

42 local police departments now. Town of Ossining PD became part of the County PD just this year.

I wouldn't count Life-Net in your EMS agencies as they're the only air ambulance asset and not a duplicative resource.

If we started simply by focusing at the Town level we could reduce these numbers by more than a third. The seven PD's in Greenburgh and its villages could all become a single town PD (for example).

This could be done with fire and EMS also until we have strong, solvent, reasonably sized departments that can meet the standards and provide the most cost-effective service to the taxpayer.

[firecapt32 282]

Eliminate 10 fire commissioners?? unheard of. three departments in Greenburgh cant consolidate. hey wait lets have a study!! done that!! been there!! did that!! got no place fast.

until something happens it ain't happening--I think Yogi said that.

Edited March 19, 2011 by firecapt32

[PFDRes47cue 653]

eliminate 10 fire commissioners?? unheard of. three departments in Greenburgh cant consolidate. hey wait lets have a study done no been there did that got no place.

until something happens it aiint happening--I think yogi dais that.

Bet a lot of people find this suitable for this topic...

"I wish I had an answer to that, because I'm tired of answering that question." - Yogi Berra

Edited March 19, 2011 by PFDRes47cue

[ems-buff 81]

Three words, COUNTY WIDE SYSTEM...

[ajsbear 11]

Nothing will happen anyplace in Westchester unless one of 2 things happen, the issue is forced or someone is willing to give up their fife-tum.

Walter didn't he also say it ain't over till its over?

[firecapt32 282]

Yogi did say that just like this topic hashed---rehashed--and re re hashed how many times can you kill the same horse. There not a fire commissioner out there that is going to say "hey lets consolidate and I do not want to be a Commissioner any more"

So I guess my opinion is pretty clear not happening in Greenburgh not happening in Mt Pleasent not happening in Long Island at least not with out a taxpayer revolt.

Was it Yogi that said if it aint broke dont fix it??

[khas143 13]

Yogi did say that just like this topic hashed---rehashed--and re re hashed how many times can you kill the same horse. There not a fire commissioner out there that is going to say "hey lets consolidate and I do not want to be a Commissioner any more"

So I guess my opinion is pretty clear not happening in Greenburgh not happening in Mt Pleasent not happening in Long Island at least not with out a taxpayer revolt.

Was it Yogi that said if it aint broke dont fix it??

Well Yogi is not currently paying the highest property taxes in the nation! Hate to break it to Yogi.... it's broke and needs to be fixed!

[Dinosaur 844]

Yogi did say that just like this topic hashed---rehashed--and re re hashed how many times can you kill the same horse. There not a fire commissioner out there that is going to say "hey lets consolidate and I do not want to be a Commissioner any more"

So I guess my opinion is pretty clear not happening in Greenburgh not happening in Mt Pleasent not happening in Long Island at least not with out a taxpayer revolt.

Was it Yogi that said if it aint broke dont fix it??

It ain't broke? Are you kidding? YOU pay my tax bill then.

This isn't beating a dead horse. We have a new governor and an entirely new climate toward public services ala Wisconsin. If you think that taxpayers aren't going to support consolidation you're crazy. Now more than ever these ideas are being discussed and you can either be part of the solution and help guide it so it works when they're done or you can be part of the problem and find yourself in a system on the outside looking in.

[61MACKBR1 222]

If you read about the recent accounts of the exact same issues being faced by other areas within the United States, looking at County-Wide Consolisation of Fire, EMS, and Police Services, you will see that the Tax Payers are "Fed Up" with rising taxes and are "Forcing" Politicians to put aside their political affiliations with Unions and Other Groups, who have been and continue to be extremely opposed to any thought of consolidation of services, and have or are now strongly considering going the route of consolidation of services. Reading up on some of the things that Gov. Cuomo as well as County Administrator Asterino are looking at, "County-Wide" consolidation might be something that could happen sooner rather than later, despite the strong opposition by Union Leaders and Fire/Police/EMS Commissioners.

Yogi Berra might have said "It ain't over until the fat lady sings", but I think that the Taxpayers in Westchester County are singing "Loud and Clear" to the Goverenor, the County Administrator, and other politicians that they are fed up and can't pay anymore additional taxes and refuse to do so.

As I have said here before, seeing what has worked extremely well in both Baltimore County, Maryland and Gwinnett County, Georgia, both very similir to the demographics and geographics of Westchester County, all Fire, Police and EMS Services in each of these counties are consolidated and run by the COUNTY and not by any individual city, town or village, thus the same could also work across the entire County of Westchester.

Three words, COUNTY WIDE SYSTEM...

[JM15 386]

Fox news just played a long segment on the Long Island consolidation story. Definitely something that I think will be discussed seriously here in Westchester next.

[INIT915 1,119]

It ain't broke? Are you kidding? YOU pay my tax bill then.

This isn't beating a dead horse. We have a new governor and an entirely new climate toward public services ala Wisconsin. If you think that taxpayers aren't going to support consolidation you're crazy. Now more than ever these ideas are being discussed and you can either be part of the solution and help guide it so it works when they're done or you can be part of the problem and find yourself in a system on the outside looking in.

Well, first, I think the Capt. was being facetious. Secondly, the Wisconsin bills don't affect PD/FD unions. They are exempt. Even considering the unions that were affected, public opinion in Wisconsin seems far from clear. Story

That being said, anyone in their right mind cannot possibly overlook some of the economic, not to mention service, benefits of consolidation. That being said, we have literally had years of talk, and no significant action, with the exception of Ossining. I for one am all for consolidation. There are several areas that seem like perfect candidates.

As for the Commissioner angle. Where I live in Orange County (Monroe), the three departments in town, Monroe, Lakeside, and Harriman recently did work on a consolidation plan that resulted in the elimination of Commissioners positions. Maybe someone from OC with a more working knowledge of the change can fill in the specifics, as I wasn't following it that closely. Hopefully some other agencies can use this example as an ice breaker of sorts.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Question from someone who lives where fire districts are not allowed: Are commissioners paid? Or do they get some sort of benefit to be a commissioner?

[38ff 250]

Commissioners are not paid by law, and other than a warm feeling in my heart knowing Im doing whats right for the district and taxpayer, there are no benefits to doing the job in my district. Commissioner positions dont count for LOSAP either. I wouldnt say that the fall workshops in Ellenville put on by the Association of Fire Districts arent "fun party time type benefits" either for districts. For districts in my area, its only about 45 minutes away from me, and we are "day trippers" there. Some districts from a few hours away stay for a few days at the hotel there, but get all thoughts of the FASNY conventions at the Concorde from the 1990's out of your heads. The Nevelle Grand is falling apart, and there are no hospitality rooms or beer flowing down the hallways.

I became a commissioner to advance the fire dept while looking out for the taxpayer. It's a balancing act, but it works.

Yes, there are some districts where the commissioners may get benefits, but that doesnt happen in my neck of the woods in my or other surrounding districts. Districts in my area operate on the $300,000-$400,000ish dollars a year we get from the taxpayers. Write out the checks for insurance for the year in January, and thats about $80,000-$100,000 off the top of the 3-400,000 figure.. We dont have $ for "commissioner perk benefits", nor would I want them if we did. I'd put the $ to training or equipment.

Edited March 20, 2011 by 38ff

[ptwatson 82]

I do believe that consolidation is the wave of the future! In Eastchester we have had one town wide F.D and also one town wide VAC for decades. I could really see if being benificial with the all volunteer departments. Let's face the fact that people need to work more to pay their bill's these days.They don't have as much time to volunteer these days. This is not just in the fire service but in all volunteer programs. I think this change in society plays into the lower ranks of volunteer firefighters. If a town with a volunteer department covering each village in that town I would think that it would be sensable to combine forces and have one town fire department. You would have a greater source of man power and a stronger department. Also, you would not need as much appararatus. As for the career dept's mostly in the southern part of the county I believe that there has been serious discussion on combining on responding. For example my brother lives 3 houses over the Eastchester border in Mt. Vernon. If he has an emergency his 1st due is Lincoln Ave a few minute away yet an Eastchester Engine is less then a minute away. What the plan would call for is that the Eastchester Engine would be the 1st due even though he lives in Mt. Vernon etc.. It makes sence! It would/will save lives! The system that was set in place during the early 1900's in my opinion is outdated. As we know tradition and pride is a big factor in the FD. However, if the apparatus needs to be re-lettered from a village name to a town name to become a town wide dept to save the tax payers money and pool resources then so be it. Let a new tradition grow out of the fine tradition of the past.

[Bnechis 3,961]

There not a fire commissioner out there that is going to say "hey lets consolidate and I do not want to be a Commissioner any more"

Very true. It will need to come from outside. 2 ways its coming, 1 the state can mandate manditory tax caps (which they have prommised they will do). If the mandate does not exempt major costs (pension, health ins and bonds) the combo districts in Westchester will be forced to lay off 4-6 firefighters every year until the law is changed or they have no firefighters left. 2 the state recently mandated that the smallest school district will be disolved and must merge with larger ones.

So I guess my opinion is pretty clear not happening in Greenburgh not happening in Mt Pleasent not happening in Long Island at least not with out a taxpayer revolt. Was it Yogi that said if it aint broke dont fix it??

The Greenburgh combo depts have had 2 options for consolidation (just the 3 or with other career/combo depts in Westchester). The 2nd one was basicly ignored. An interesting political dynamic exists in Edgemont with Town Supervisor Finer that they would rather become a village than have anything to do with the town. So I do not see the 3 merging without outside force as listed aboved. Other communities like the Greenburgh river depts or Mt Pleasant have gotten to a point where lack of volunteers is becoming critical. At times in some towns in Westchester more rigs exist than the number of available firefighters. At some point the depts will have to pull their heads out of the sand and figure out how they are going to provide service.

Secondly, the Wisconsin bills don't affect PD/FD unions. They are exempt.

But for how long?

[firecapt32 282]

Barry your right on the options in Greenburgh. Edgemont area ie Greenville Fire district bothe "meets and bounds" are the same, would much rather make their own and not be part of the Town of Greenburgh for a few reasons.

1- it is generally felt in the Edgemiont area(scarsdale mailing) same physical area, that they cannot get anyone elected to the Town Board because of population--lowest in the Town

2- the Whole Town of Greenburgh votes for the supervisior and Board including all the incorporated towns and villiages

ie elmsford,tarrytown irvington ect.

3- heres the kicker the Edgemont/Scarsdale does not repete does not want to consolidate with the School district in the Town of Greenburgh.! if they were a town and were forced to consolidate school dictrict THEN they could incorporate in to Scarsdale Schools.

And i do not see a big out cry from Eastchester to consolidate the three police departments ??

if consolidation comes it wont be pretty westchester is not prepared.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I do believe that consolidation is the wave of the future! In Eastchester we have had one town wide F.D and also one town wide VAC for decades. I could really see if being benificial with the all volunteer departments. Let's face the fact that people need to work more to pay their bill's these days.They don't have as much time to volunteer these days. This is not just in the fire service but in all volunteer programs. I think this change in society plays into the lower ranks of volunteer firefighters. If a town with a volunteer department covering each village in that town I would think that it would be sensable to combine forces and have one town fire department. You would have a greater source of man power and a stronger department. Also, you would not need as much appararatus. As for the career dept's mostly in the southern part of the county I believe that there has been serious discussion on combining on responding. For example my brother lives 3 houses over the Eastchester border in Mt. Vernon. If he has an emergency his 1st due is Lincoln Ave a few minute away yet an Eastchester Engine is less then a minute away. What the plan would call for is that the Eastchester Engine would be the 1st due even though he lives in Mt. Vernon etc.. It makes sence! It would/will save lives! The system that was set in place during the early 1900's in my opinion is outdated. As we know tradition and pride is a big factor in the FD. However, if the apparatus needs to be re-lettered from a village name to a town name to become a town wide dept to save the tax payers money and pool resources then so be it. Let a new tradition grow out of the fine tradition of the past.

Eastchester (through all of it's faults) could be used as a model for consolidation. The consultant's report done in the 1990s broke down what the cost would be if the Town and the two villages within the town, had each gone their own way at the turn of the Twentieth Century, and created three separate departments instead of creating one fire district. In the 1990s the savings was already in the area of many millions of dollars.

The study that the Career Chiefs put together with the people at Pace U a few years ago (Captain Nechis is an expert regarding this study) showed what could be done with south Westchester career/combo departments.

The models are out there, the studies completed, all that is needed is action. It has been pointed out this action will more than likely come from pressure at the State level, County level, or elsewhere. External pressure will force departments to start taking this matter seriously. A consolidation action committee should be formed, consisting of elected officials from fire districts, towns, villages and cities, their fire chiefs, along with union representation from the affected locals. Open communication, seriousness of purpose, and determination to improve delivery of service could result in progress. The resulting improvement in service delivery, along with safer working conditions for firefighters can be accomplished. The time is passed due for changes to be made.