Wisconsin Senate GOP Votes to Strip State Workers of Collective Bargaining Rights

[gamewell45 258]

Now that the republican senators have used the so-called nuclear option, unless it is overturned in court, once passed by the House and signed it'll become law in Wisconsin. And it'll stay that way unless in the next election cycle, the people vote out the republicans who supported this bill and repeal it.

I think it will happen.

According to polls, the people of Wisconsin strongly oppose certain parts of the bill which they feel are an encroachment on civil rights of workers in the state. Governor Walker has done an admirable job of polarizing his state and for that he'll most likely become an icon for republicans and conservatives for years to come.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepo...117472988.html

While the public workers may be down, they are definitely not out. I suspect it'll become the 1930's again in Wisconsin labor-wise; in some aspects I think it'll be good since many unionists know very little or nothing about unions in general and the sacrifices made back in the day when they fought street battles with management and company hired security hacks.Tthis is a wake up call to not only public employees but also those in the private sector who think they are immune from what took place in Wisconsin. Furthermore, fire and police will not be immune from future attacks on their unions; indeed Ohio, Indiana and New Jersey are contemplating changes in labor regarding the public sector in their respective states.

Make no bones about it, the public and private sector unions in other states are next on the republican's hit list. After all, the Republican Party owes its soul to the US Chamber of Commerce and Tea Party, so hopefully it'll galvanize everyone from both the private and public sectors to band together as brothers and sisters with a common bond to work to vote out the governor and every republican of either house who supported this bill.

Tonight, after it was announced that the republican senate in Wisconsin had passed the bill by 18-1, five of my co-workers, all staunch republicans revealed to us that they are so embarrassed by what their party did in Wisconsin, they plan on leaving the party and registering as independents.

I look forward with extreme enthusiasm to the next two years. I honestly believe that the Republicans have awakened a sleeping bear.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Tonight, after it was announced that the republican senate in Wisconsin had passed the bill by 18-1, five of my co-workers, all staunch republicans revealed to us that they are so embarrassed by what their party did in Wisconsin, they plan on leaving the party and registering as independents.

I think you'll find this to be a common theme among moderate conservatives. For years I've disagreed with some of the GOP agenda, but found myself still more closely aligned with them, and in many cases the issues I was in opposition to, were really not going to be acted on. Now the Tea Party has played all the cards at once and basically proven what many liberals had said for years, that the GOP cared about corporate business first. I too will take myself off the republican party list. Now the only question is whether we can propel a moderate independent far enough. My fear is that the Democrats will see this as the undoing of the GOP and push their more liberal ideals out front given they've nearly been handed the elections in many states and certainly the presidency in 2012. Unless we all learn that the moderate middle ground is the only place things can get done, we'll play this lopsided tug of war every election cycle.

[Stepjam 118]

I'm a Union member, have been for 25 years, and also served for 15 years as a steward. I am also a slightly right-of-center Republican, and have been for my entire voting life. Thanks to Obama and Crew, I will remain so.

That said, as a Republican I am embarassed by the Draconian measures undertaken in Wisconsin, and because of them I have no doubt that four years from now, Wisconsin will be just as left-wing looney as the People's Republic of Vermont, or the Commune-wealth of Massachusetts. I also believe this misguided sledgehammer approach will be overtuned in court, because it tramples the civil rights of those workers.

I am also highly embarassed by Sarah Palin and lately, John McCain. But they are only temporary.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Stepjam

[MerlinMedic 5]

Not taking sides in this mess, being from NY, but what Wisconson did appears to be just what the Feds did years ago. Federal employees are unionized & don't have collective bargining rights. They also appear to do rather well. As a former union member it agravated me that my dues went to candidates that I didn't support. And that, I think is more of an issue than people realize.

[FireMedic049 597]

As a former union member it agravated me that my dues went to candidates that I didn't support. And that, I think is more of an issue than people realize.

Prior to the "Citizens United" ruling by the US Supreme Court, your Union Dues in all likelihood was NOT going to any candidates since it was ILLEGAL to spend that money on political activity. Your Union may have had a Political Action Committee (PAC) Fund that spent money on political activities, however that would not have been funded by Dues money, but rather with voluntary contributions from the membership and possibly other sources.

As far as the Union supporting candidates that you don't support, well that's not exactly anything unusual within a group setting. It's pretty rare that you would see a (large) group of people completely in support of a specific candidate. Doing what's believed to be "best" for the majority of the membership is not uncommon and quite frankly, the proper course. I can't speak to what your Union did, but can speak to what mine does. The Union supports candidates that support firefighters. Endorsements, when given, are given to the candidates that are believed to be the best option in the interests of our occupation. Typically, that will reflect the position of the majority of our members. However, all members are free to support whomever they feel best represents their interests overall. Some Locals have even made endorsements in opposition of the Union.

[16fire5 693]

Federal employees are unionized & don't have collective bargining rights. They also appear to do rather well.

That's relative. I don't think they do "well" compared their counterparts in NYS government.

[firecapt32 282]

Stepjam being slightly left of center--between us we even out. Thats what makes America great, it is when we allow the extream from either side to make decisions that gets us into trouble.

Union workers from all types of unions bases their endorsments on what they precieve as best fot the whole(acting globely) most of us make our desision on whats best for us (acting localy). Before any union endorsment is taken on any level the pulse of the membership should be taken. Larger unions IAFF for example may endorse a certain canadate soley based on how they have already voted based on labor issues. You as a individual may cast your vote on how the canadate stands on other issues, that are important to you.. education issues..healthe care..womans rights, ect.

Again thats what makes America so great, but for this State to take away bargaining rights in unconsciencenable.

[ohbdow1 6]

Tweak of the Post....

What rights do we really have? Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness..

Collective Bargoning? The right to bargain against the people we serve?

I love what is goining on there, it is exposing all the loons. Keep it up, from the 1340 teachers that were to be laid off and now 1500 due to the 7.5 MILLION DOLLAR CLEAN UP and REPAIR BILL! Any conservative protest, movement, or march leaves behind no mess. It is usually cleaner than it was prior to the assembly. No rounds of ammunition (left at the Captial entrances), no death threats (emailed to them), no protests at their homes or while they are eating in public. They are demonstrating their caliber of person. Keep up the good work! People of consience are watching. Police and Firefighters were held harmless in this. Organizing for America (Obama's group) is bussing in the unemployed to protest. Five dollars and a sandwich and on the buss you go so that it looks like the people who live there are upset. This effects the 10 percent of people who are represented by these unions. They have destroyed a public building, trampled the surroundings and the people who live there are fed up. As for the polls, look at who they sample. Look for the truth yourself.

Does this tweak you? Then I have made my point.

[gamewell45 258]

Collective Bargoning? The right to bargain against the people we serve?

Let me remind you that slavery was abolished in 1865; we don't "serve" the people; rather we have a business relationship with the employer.

I love what is goining on there, it is exposing all the loons. Keep it up, from the 1340 teachers that were to be laid off and now 1500 due to the 7.5 MILLION DOLLAR CLEAN UP and REPAIR BILL! Any conservative protest, movement, or march leaves behind no mess.

Most unfortunate; whether or not you want to admit it, anytime you have large gatherings of people regardless of their agenda, you'll most likely have a mess to clean up. Hopefully some of the cost will be offset by sales taxes collected by local businesses which profited from the gathering.

Looking at it from another angle, in this particular case, It probably wouldn't have happened if they hadn't proposed to changes in law regarding public unions. In situations like this, its reasonable to assume you'll have large crowds of people in attendance.

Keep in mind that if that teachers are to be laid off, they are going to receive unemployment benefits, a cost of which you the taxpayer are going to have to absorb; they will not be spending money as they normally would and as such will have negative impact on the local economy. So go ahead and be a cheerleader and/or an apologist for your agenda; just remember that the lives of thousands of public sector workers will be impacted negatively.

http://mediamatters....og/201103050009

From the site (if you read the above link):

"The Blaze is a news, information and opinion site brought to you by Glenn Beck and a dedicated team of writers, journalists & video producers." Seems to me that there is a credibility issue at hand here.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/

As for the polls, look at who they sample. Look for the truth yourself.

You might not agree with the polls but they are what they are whether you like it or not. As a friendly suggestion, try reading the "Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck; I think it will be an eye opener for you.

[INIT915 1,119]

Tweak of the Post....

What rights do we really have? Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness..

Collective Bargoning? The right to bargain against the people we serve?

I love what is goining on there, it is exposing all the loons. Keep it up, from the 1340 teachers that were to be laid off and now 1500 due to the 7.5 MILLION DOLLAR CLEAN UP and REPAIR BILL! Any conservative protest, movement, or march leaves behind no mess. It is usually cleaner than it was prior to the assembly. No rounds of ammunition (left at the Captial entrances), no death threats (emailed to them), no protests at their homes or while they are eating in public. They are demonstrating their caliber of person. Keep up the good work! People of consience are watching. Police and Firefighters were held harmless in this. Organizing for America (Obama's group) is bussing in the unemployed to protest. Five dollars and a sandwich and on the buss you go so that it looks like the people who live there are upset. This effects the 10 percent of people who are represented by these unions. They have destroyed a public building, trampled the surroundings and the people who live there are fed up. As for the polls, look at who they sample. Look for the truth yourself.

Does this tweak you? Then I have made my point.

Posts such as this one lead me to believe we should be paying teachers even more !

Edited March 11, 2011 by INIT915

[ec255 22]

I am not for totally taking away their ability to collectivley bargain ( notice I said a ability, not right) - but when these contracts are negotiated, someone needs to be at the table representing the taxpayer- you have huge amounts of money over the years going from unions into the politcal campaigns of the same people who are supposed to be on the " management" side- I feel that for the most part no one in the public sector should be paid more than what someone doing the same job in the private sector would be paid. Why do you think the unions have gotten all of these exemptions from Bamacare?

[ffp20 14]

I am not for totally taking away their ability to collectivley bargain ( notice I said a ability, not right) - but when these contracts are negotiated, someone needs to be at the table representing the taxpayer- you have huge amounts of money over the years going from unions into the politcal campaigns of the same people who are supposed to be on the " management" side- I feel that for the most part no one in the public sector should be paid more than what someone doing the same job in the private sector would be paid. Why do you think the unions have gotten all of these exemptions from Bamacare?

There are people represnting the taxpayer: THEY ARE THE PEOPLE YOU ELECT TO OFFICE! They are the problem, not the workers.

The problem of money going from unions to campaigns are no different at all than money going from vendors, business organizations, and lobyist organization money (like our beloved fire serivce groups, FASNY for one) to political campaigns to gain influence on business contracts and legislative votes-no difference at all. again, the pols are the problem.

what unions got exemptions to bamacare????? and what were those exemptions for???

[FireMedic049 597]

I am not for totally taking away their ability to collectivley bargain ( notice I said a ability, not right) - but when these contracts are negotiated, someone needs to be at the table representing the taxpayer

As was just pointed out, the taxpayer's representative in collective bargaining is an elected official and/or a person designated to act on their behalf, but the contract is ultimately approved by elected officials. So, if you aren't happy with the results of collective bargaining, then maybe you should elect somebody else on the next election day. It happens in the Unions. If the membership doesn't like the new contract, there's a pretty good chance that the same people won't be negotiating the next one.

Be upset with the Unions if you like, but please make sure that you are sending at least 50% of your ire to those elected officials that agreed to everything in the contracts.

I feel that for the most part no one in the public sector should be paid more than what someone doing the same job in the private sector would be paid.

Hmmm. Since the only firefighters in my area that are in the private sector are volunteer, does that mean that all of the career firefighters in the area should also be paid nothing? Edited March 11, 2011 by FireMedic049

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Posts such as this one lead me to believe we should be paying teachers even more !

If I could rep/like this more I would......Thank you

[ec255 22]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/unions-make-40-percent-employees-exempted-obamacare

That links to some of the unions exempted from Bamacare. As for me I am a member of a private sector union- I make no money off of anyones' back I bust my a** everyday, contribute directly to the economy and hope my company makes a profit to keep it all going- my union tries to keep them honest to our contract- I have a good pay/benefits package-thanks to my union. Like I said- I believe in the ability for cops,firefighters etc to collectively bargain- but I cannot agree with overtime padding of pensions ( for life), huge percentages of disability retirements, double-dipping,the inability to fire employees that should be canned etc- things that don't go on in my company.( plenty of blame to go around on that) 95% of union contributions go to the Democrat party-7.6 million public workers ( which by the way, when in the majority for the past 2 years did very little for union members) If you are a cop, firefighter etc- I respect what you do and have the utmost appreciation for what you do- but in the end- you work for the taxpayer- the same people who have been bleeding since 2008- losing their savings, jobs and houses and liveleyhoods- most whom aren't out for your blood, but who just want to reign in some of the stupidity that goes on.

[INIT915 1,119]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/unions-make-40-percent-employees-exempted-obamacare

That links to some of the unions exempted from Bamacare. As for me I am a member of a private sector union- I make no money off of anyones' back I bust my a** everyday, contribute directly to the economy and hope my company makes a profit to keep it all going- my union tries to keep them honest to our contract- I have a good pay/benefits package-thanks to my union. Like I said- I believe in the ability for cops,firefighters etc to collectively bargain- but I cannot agree with overtime padding of pensions ( for life), huge percentages of disability retirements, double-dipping,the inability to fire employees that should be canned etc- things that don't go on in my company.( plenty of blame to go around on that) 95% of union contributions go to the Democrat party-7.6 million public workers ( which by the way, when in the majority for the past 2 years did very little for union members) If you are a cop, firefighter etc- I respect what you do and have the utmost appreciation for what you do- but in the end- you work for the taxpayer- the same people who have been bleeding since 2008- losing their savings, jobs and houses and liveleyhoods- most whom aren't out for your blood, but who just want to reign in some of the stupidity that goes on.

Maybe in two years, the majority party has done very little, but at least they didn't undo 50 years of established precedent. And how come no one talks about pre-2008, when the private sector was flourishing? Lots of private sector employees raking in the money and buying stuff they couldn't afford, racking up credit card debt that was unsustainable, buying houses way outside their means. During those years, many were seeing raises far in excess what public sector unions had negotiated. You never saw the public sector employees complaining did you? We never tried to reopen our contracts looking for increases, did we?

Edited March 12, 2011 by INIT915

[ec255 22]

Maybe in two years, the majority party has done very little, but at least they didn't undo 50 years of established precedent. And how come no one talks about pre-2008, when the private sector was flourishing? Lots of private sector employees raking in the money and buying stuff they couldn't afford, racking up credit card debt that was unsustainable, buying houses way outside their means. During those years, many were seeing raises far in excess what public sector unions had negotiated. You never saw the public sector employees complaining did you? We never tried to reopen our contracts looking for increases, did we?

First of all,I appreciate that this discussion has been constructive and civil.My take on pre-2008 is similar to yours-the gov't pressured banks to loan to people who they shouldn't have and the banks in their greediness figured out how to make huge amounts of money doing it-thus setting the stage for the housing collapse. Consumers,corporations and gov't all are culpable in getting us to where we are today the Federal gov't should never have transferred such huge amounts of money to these private companies-they should have been left to fail.- I must say I am a member of one of the largest, most powerul private sector unions in the country and during those pre 2008 years we did ok- we didn't get huge raises and actually due to increasing healthcare costs, we went some years without raises at all to keep our health benefits intact- this was during the "good times"- don't remember to many public service unions doing that in the name of keeping costs down for the taxpayer.Not blaming it totally on the unions because elected officials were on the other side of those negotiating tables.

[ffp20 14]

First of all,I appreciate that this discussion has been constructive and civil.My take on pre-2008 is similar to yours-the gov't pressured banks to loan to people who they shouldn't have and the banks in their greediness figured out how to make huge amounts of money doing it-thus setting the stage for the housing collapse. Consumers,corporations and gov't all are culpable in getting us to where we are today the Federal gov't should never have transferred such huge amounts of money to these private companies-they should have been left to fail.- I must say I am a member of one of the largest, most powerul private sector unions in the country and during those pre 2008 years we did ok- we didn't get huge raises and actually due to increasing healthcare costs, we went some years without raises at all to keep our health benefits intact- this was during the "good times"- don't remember to many public service unions doing that in the name of keeping costs down for the taxpayer.Not blaming it totally on the unions because elected officials were on the other side of those negotiating tables.

Sir, we went without raises also to keep our health benefits intact. And as was said before, when we had contracts made during "lean" times and took zero's and other declines also, however we didnt demand our contracts be reopened to get increases when funding was better. We dont get rich here. At this point may we have better security than you? maybe cuz i dont know your particular situation. I feel the arguments have become us vs them cuz of one groups percieved advantages over another.

[ffp20 14]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/unions-make-40-percent-employees-exempted-obamacare

That links to some of the unions exempted from Bamacare. As for me I am a member of a private sector union- I make no money off of anyones' back I bust my a** everyday, contribute directly to the economy and hope my company makes a profit to keep it all going- my union tries to keep them honest to our contract- I have a good pay/benefits package-thanks to my union. Like I said- I believe in the ability for cops,firefighters etc to collectively bargain- but I cannot agree with overtime padding of pensions ( for life), huge percentages of disability retirements, double-dipping,the inability to fire employees that should be canned etc- things that don't go on in my company.( plenty of blame to go around on that) 95% of union contributions go to the Democrat party-7.6 million public workers ( which by the way, when in the majority for the past 2 years did very little for union members) If you are a cop, firefighter etc- I respect what you do and have the utmost appreciation for what you do- but in the end- you work for the taxpayer- the same people who have been bleeding since 2008- losing their savings, jobs and houses and liveleyhoods- most whom aren't out for your blood, but who just want to reign in some of the stupidity that goes on.

padding? how so since you can only use a percentage of OT from yr to yr for pension purposes.

huge percentages of disability retirements? where are these taking place? up here anyway are incredibly hard to get for even the most injured workers

double dipping? please explain how cops and ff's are doing this

inability to fire employees? again please explain on a cop and ff level. In your union, does your local go to bat for employees in trouble?

95% of contributions go to dems? oh really. you must not have read the iaff's lists of where support goes. after the mess in wisconsin you may be correct for the future.

[ffp20 14]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/unions-make-40-percent-employees-exempted-obamacare

That links to some of the unions exempted from Bamacare. As for me I am a member of a private sector union- I make no money off of anyones' back I bust my a** everyday, contribute directly to the economy and hope my company makes a profit to keep it all going- my union tries to keep them honest to our contract- I have a good pay/benefits package-thanks to my union. Like I said- I believe in the ability for cops,firefighters etc to collectively bargain- but I cannot agree with overtime padding of pensions ( for life), huge percentages of disability retirements, double-dipping,the inability to fire employees that should be canned etc- things that don't go on in my company.( plenty of blame to go around on that) 95% of union contributions go to the Democrat party-7.6 million public workers ( which by the way, when in the majority for the past 2 years did very little for union members) If you are a cop, firefighter etc- I respect what you do and have the utmost appreciation for what you do- but in the end- you work for the taxpayer- the same people who have been bleeding since 2008- losing their savings, jobs and houses and liveleyhoods- most whom aren't out for your blood, but who just want to reign in some of the stupidity that goes on.

the article said the exemptions expire in 2014 and they will no longer be avail.

[SteveOFD 176]

Tweak of the Post....

What rights do we really have? Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness..

Collective Bargoning? The right to bargain against the people we serve?

I love what is goining on there, it is exposing all the loons. Keep it up, from the 1340 teachers that were to be laid off and now 1500 due to the 7.5 MILLION DOLLAR CLEAN UP and REPAIR BILL! Any conservative protest, movement, or march leaves behind no mess. It is usually cleaner than it was prior to the assembly. No rounds of ammunition (left at the Captial entrances), no death threats (emailed to them), no protests at their homes or while they are eating in public. They are demonstrating their caliber of person. Keep up the good work! People of consience are watching. Police and Firefighters were held harmless in this. Organizing for America (Obama's group) is bussing in the unemployed to protest. Five dollars and a sandwich and on the buss you go so that it looks like the people who live there are upset. This effects the 10 percent of people who are represented by these unions. They have destroyed a public building, trampled the surroundings and the people who live there are fed up. As for the polls, look at who they sample. Look for the truth yourself.

Does this tweak you? Then I have made my point.

Yeah this tweaks me. Get your FACTS from a RELIABLE source.

It took me less than two minutes to find this article from Madison.com

State officials say $7 million cleanup of state Capitol was overstated

DAN SIMMONS | dsimmons@madison.com | 608-252-6136 madison.com | Posted: Saturday, March 5, 2011 6:30 am

State officials admitted Friday that they may have overstated cleanup costs related to the recent two-week state Capitol camp-out by as much as $7 million as union leaders and protesters harshly criticized the estimate quoted by a state lawyer at a court hearing Thursday.

...

Department of Administration Secretary Mike Huebsch admitted Friday the $7.5 million quoted by DOA lawyer Cari Ann Renlund was "at the high end of the range" and that actual cleanup costs could be as low as $347,500.

...

Gibbons said union leaders enforced a rigid discipline on the hundreds of protesters who made the Capitol their home for two weeks, consulting with Capitol Police on policies that would tread as gently as possible on the century-old statehouse.

Early on, union leaders supplied hundreds of rolls of blue painters tape to protesters whose Capitol camp-out began Feb. 15 and ended Thursday. Police told them the blue tape was gentlest on the stone walls and railings. The Capitol's interior features 43 varieties of stone.

...

On Friday, the Division of State Facilities had two stonemasons go through the Capitol's second floor, where the majority of protest signs that once papered the walls have been removed, assessing what would be involved in the cleanup.

The walls and railings had little visible signs of discoloration. One of the masons was observed wiping off adhesive residue on a marble railing.

Using a water-based solvent called Marbleous, the mason was able to wipe the mark clear within minutes, with no lasting mark remaining.

Sean Heiser, an AFSCME field supervisor who oversees the Capitol's eight full-time custodians, said he did a site visit at the Capitol on Monday and found the nearly century-old building in good condition. Custodians reported cooperation from the Capitol's overnight residents.

"We didn't see the $7.5 million in damage they're claiming," he said. "It's just not there."

So, your post is claiming 7.5 MILLION DOLLARS to remove BLUE PAINTERS TAPE from STONE WALLS and RAILINGS??? Seems like an awful lot of money, but then this is what foxnews reported.

Read the above linked article for the FACTS.

GET YOUR FACTS FROM A RELIABLE, (or better yet like I do) MULTIPLE RELIABLE SOURCES.

[helicopper 1,050]

http://washingtonexa...mpted-obamacare

That links to some of the unions exempted from Bamacare. As for me I am a member of a private sector union- I make no money off of anyones' back I bust my a** everyday, contribute directly to the economy and hope my company makes a profit to keep it all going- my union tries to keep them honest to our contract- I have a good pay/benefits package-thanks to my union. Like I said- I believe in the ability for cops,firefighters etc to collectively bargain- but I cannot agree with overtime padding of pensions ( for life), huge percentages of disability retirements, double-dipping,the inability to fire employees that should be canned etc- things that don't go on in my company.( plenty of blame to go around on that) 95% of union contributions go to the Democrat party-7.6 million public workers ( which by the way, when in the majority for the past 2 years did very little for union members) If you are a cop, firefighter etc- I respect what you do and have the utmost appreciation for what you do- but in the end- you work for the taxpayer- the same people who have been bleeding since 2008- losing their savings, jobs and houses and liveleyhoods- most whom aren't out for your blood, but who just want to reign in some of the stupidity that goes on.

I'm just curious what you mean by a private sector union that doesn't make any money off "anyone's back".

Public sector union members work hard, contribute to the economy, and most hope that their employers keep taxes under control because they're all also taxpayers.

There's no overtime padding - there are statutory limits to how much overtime is pensionable from one year to the next. If there were more full-time employees there would be less overtime but nobody wants to hire anyone so they work short and pay overtime. How is that the union members' fault?

What is a "huge percentage" of disability retirements? Are you insinuating that they're not legitimate or just that too many people receive them?

What double-dipping?

Public sector employees can be terminated. I fail to understand how a collective bargaining agreement stands in the way of legitimate termination. Your grievance may be with civil service - or laws written and passed by our elected officials - that govern public employee issues. That isn't contractual.

Yes, we work for the taxpayers. What does that have to do with your argument?

[helicopper 1,050]

http://washingtonexa...mpted-obamacare

That links to some of the unions exempted from Bamacare. As for me I am a member of a private sector union- I make no money off of anyones' back I bust my a** everyday, contribute directly to the economy and hope my company makes a profit to keep it all going- my union tries to keep them honest to our contract- I have a good pay/benefits package-thanks to my union.

I looked at the list of unions exempted and the majority seems to be private trades unions not public sector unions (although there are a few).

So what is the big deal? They're being given three years to get in line with the legislation.

[FireMedic049 597]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/unions-make-40-percent-employees-exempted-obamacare

That links to some of the unions exempted from Bamacare. As for me I am a member of a private sector union- I make no money off of anyones' back I bust my a** everyday, contribute directly to the economy and hope my company makes a profit to keep it all going- my union tries to keep them honest to our contract- I have a good pay/benefits package-thanks to my union.

Guess what, we all make money off somebody else's back. Your job is dependent on somebody else purchasing your company's product or service. The money to pay for that comes from somebody else purchasing the product or service that their employer provides and the cycle continues.

Public sector employees also contribute directly to the economy. In some cases, we are the backbone of the local economy. We also help pay for our own salary and benefits and that of our co-workers via taxes unlike private sector employees.

Like I said- I believe in the ability for cops,firefighters etc to collectively bargain- but I cannot agree with overtime padding of pensions ( for life), huge percentages of disability retirements, double-dipping,the inability to fire employees that should be canned etc- things that don't go on in my company.

I don't agree with "pension spiking" either, not sure what the beef is regarding disability pensions or what double-dipping is occurring. Public sector employees can be fired. I've seen it done. The thing is, the employer has to follow the proper procedure to do so. Far too many make impulse decisions on these matters and the fired employee gets their job back, not because they didn't deserve to be fired, but because the employer violated their rights in the process, but that point is almost always "hide" from the public.

( plenty of blame to go around on that) 95% of union contributions go to the Democrat party-7.6 million public workers ( which by the way, when in the majority for the past 2 years did very little for union members) If you are a cop, firefighter etc- I respect what you do and have the utmost appreciation for what you do- but in the end- you work for the taxpayer- the same people who have been bleeding since 2008- losing their savings, jobs and houses and liveleyhoods- most whom aren't out for your blood, but who just want to reign in some of the stupidity that goes on.

News flash, we're bleeding too! Numerous public sector employees have been laid off, taken pay cuts to avoid/reduce layoffs and forced to take furlough days. We're losing our savings, jobs, houses and livelihoods too! We're also in many cases losing some of our workplace safety too. Unlike most other jobs, workforce reductions tend to largely mean that productivity slows down - less cars build each day, less offices cleaned each day, less cars fixed each day, etc. In public safety, the job doesn't slow down with layoffs or station closures. In hard hit areas, the job demands often increase and that doesn't mix well with workforce reductions.

I think the vast majority of us are all in favor of reigning in the stupidity. We've proven that we're willing to make the sacrifices. So, how about we focus some more energy on the other half of the equation. Let's focus on the people's representatives that agreed to everything that the people hate in the union contracts. Let's focus on demanding real sacrifice by our government officials - reductions in pay, benefits, perks, size of legislative bodies, size of staff, etc.

[ffp20 14]

I'm just curious what you mean by a private sector union that doesn't make any money off "anyone's back".

Public sector union members work hard, contribute to the economy, and most hope that their employers keep taxes under control because they're all also taxpayers.

There's no overtime padding - there are statutory limits to how much overtime is pensionable from one year to the next. If there were more full-time employees there would be less overtime but nobody wants to hire anyone so they work short and pay overtime. How is that the union members' fault?

What is a "huge percentage" of disability retirements? Are you insinuating that they're not legitimate or just that too many people receive them?

What double-dipping?

Public sector employees can be terminated. I fail to understand how a collective bargaining agreement stands in the way of legitimate termination. Your grievance may be with civil service - or laws written and passed by our elected officials - that govern public employee issues. That isn't contractual.

Yes, we work for the taxpayers. What does that have to do with your argument?

Yes, we work for the taxpayers. In many peoples minds that means we're nothing more than slaves. Fox news, several dirtbag commentators (including one alcoholic and one admitted drug addict), and numerous other slanted media outlets suggest it on a daily basis.

[ny10570 745]

I don't know if any of you were watching the near constant news coverage of the siege on the capitol, but the footage from the night after they closed the building to anymore protesters so they could begin cleaning was telling. The savage Libs were actually cheering on the janitors and getting out of the way as they swept and mopped. ANIMALS the whole lot!!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/unions-make-40-percent-employees-exempted-obamacare

That links to some of the unions exempted from Bamacare. As for me I am a member of a private sector union- I make no money off of anyones' back I bust my a** everyday, contribute directly to the economy and hope my company makes a profit to keep it all going- my union tries to keep them honest to our contract- I have a good pay/benefits package-thanks to my union. Like I said- I believe in the ability for cops,firefighters etc to collectively bargain- but I cannot agree with overtime padding of pensions ( for life), huge percentages of disability retirements, double-dipping,the inability to fire employees that should be canned etc- things that don't go on in my company.( plenty of blame to go around on that) 95% of union contributions go to the Democrat party-7.6 million public workers ( which by the way, when in the majority for the past 2 years did very little for union members) If you are a cop, firefighter etc- I respect what you do and have the utmost appreciation for what you do- but in the end- you work for the taxpayer- the same people who have been bleeding since 2008- losing their savings, jobs and houses and liveleyhoods- most whom aren't out for your blood, but who just want to reign in some of the stupidity that goes on.

You can save your thanks...but lets get a few things straight here. First...I don't bleed the taxpayers...in fact most firefighters today are underpaid for the amount of services we provide and the majority of us are short staffed. So sorry you feel that that emergency services providers are the ones causing all the woes on the backs of the taxpayers. Oh wait..that's right I forgot...I pay taxes as well...the same taxes as everyone else and I'm willing to bet where I live..I'm paying a little more. What ever happened to you get what you pay for? And since you and I are similar in some ways as I totally appreciate your candor and pointed response (far too little of that on here anymore) I will kindly ablige you with the same and here it is: Get off our backs. I don't know what you do...but most in private corporations had the same options to be on this side. And I don't know too many of you who miss holidays with your families, nor wear 55 lbs of equipment or a ballistic vest while at work. High percentage disability payments? What exactly are you smoking? I don't worry about getting struck by a car while crossing the street sucking down a latte and crossant when at work. Every time the buzzer hits it could be something that I might not go home or be able to provide for my family at the same level I was if I didn't get hurt. And oh, that's right I do it because I serve to do a job that most would wet their pants, vomit or end up on medication if they tried. I'm sure you do have a decent package and I'm happy for you...but don't forget you work to make your corporation money...and more gets filtered to the top then you...look deeper into where your tax money goes on the local level and then you tell me about disability, overtime "padding" etc. I don't get off of work at 1 or 2 to get paid till 4. I don't get double or triple overtime pay and I certainly haven't sat at home with my family on several thanksgivings and christmas.

For all you others that whine and talk about corporations in the same breath as public sector employees...here's a little story for you.

There are 3 cookies on a table in the front of a room. There is a CEO, a mayor and the crowd is taxpayers on one side, municipal employee unions on the other. The taxpayers are screaming they want all 3 cookies...each union is saying they want a larger piece of a cookie. The CEO stands up...calms the crowd and says "guys relax I got it...picks up 2 cookies...walks down the aisle and turns towards the taxpayers and yells..."those guys on my right are trying to take your cookie." Go figure.

And whoever said that federal employees do well...look at the salaries again...I was one and I couldn't maintain my style of life for me or my kids based on that salary as an officer. And many of those salaries were increased because of the loss of talented and critically needed employees to the private sector.

Keep sipping the kool aid...and getting your info from Fox news and the papers. Fox news is officially off my list with their anti labor rhetoric and particularly the attack on emergency services providers by wakco's like Glenn Beck (never watched him when I was a Fox News fan) and O'Reilly (who was a teacher no less). Oh by the way their millionaires from their shows and books...but I bet if their a** caught on fire or clutched their chest they wouldn't give a s*** about what local taxes their paying on their large houses.