Ossining, county mark start of historic police merger

[x635 4,066]

Ossining, county mark start of historic police merger

Mar 9, 2011

Written by

Marcela Rojas

The Journal News

Standing before a new "Westchester County Police Ossining Command" sign today, town and county officials marked the start of a historic police merger between the two entities.

FULL ARTICLE: http://www.lohud.com/article/20110309/NEWS02/103090371/Ossining-county-mark-start-historic-police-merger?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage

[FDNYDCHI 38]

With the new town of Ossining becoming WCPD a few questions for the cops out there:

1. Does the Town PD time count when they became a WCPD officer?

2. Do they patrol there normal sector, or can they be moved all over the county?

Thanks for the info

Chris

[helicopper 1,050]

With the new town of Ossining becoming WCPD a few questions for the cops out there:

1. Does the Town PD time count when they became a WCPD officer?

2. Do they patrol there normal sector, or can they be moved all over the county?

Thanks for the info

Chris

All their civil service time counts - in fact supervisors and detectives came over with their rank. The only exception was the Chief who came over as a Captain but I am not privvy to the dynamics behind that.

All the Ossining guys are being field trained so they can perform any assignment within their new department but most are still assigned to the town. Once their field training is completed they'll be eligible for any assignment including overtime assignments. County cops are also being cross-trained so they're familar with the town.

It's been a great deal so far (IMHO).

[ptwatson 82]

Would it be a cost saving measure if all Westchester Town and Villages changed over to the County PD? In my personal opinion I think it would be great but I'm no expert. I would imagine that the cities would/should continue to police themselves. However, there so many PD's in Westchester. I'm curious if it would be a better system. I'm a big fan of mergers that could save tax dollars while still providing the same great service.

[firedude 985]

Would it be a cost saving measure if all Westchester Town and Villages changed over to the County PD? In my personal opinion I think it would be great but I'm no expert. I would imagine that the cities would/should continue to police themselves. However, there so many PD's in Westchester. I'm curious if it would be a better system. I'm a big fan of mergers that could save tax dollars while still providing the same great service.

With the exceptions of Yonkers, Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, White Plains, Port Chester and Peekskill, I think that would work well. These cities listed above really need their own police force. Remember, a lot of towns and villages upstate are already consolidated and rely on the County Sherrif/police or NYSP for law enforcement.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Historic? Could be ! This might be the beginning of PD, FD, and EMS mergers into a County Run and Managed Force, to cut allot of overhead expesnes that if County Run Department could help elliminate, thus saving taxpayers allot of money.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Would it be a cost saving measure if all Westchester Town and Villages changed over to the County PD? In my personal opinion I think it would be great but I'm no expert. I would imagine that the cities would/should continue to police themselves. However, there so many PD's in Westchester. I'm curious if it would be a better system. I'm a big fan of mergers that could save tax dollars while still providing the same great service.

It is very possible. Politicians are very quick to claim it will save, but 1st one needs to look at the service delivery levels. If dept. A and Dept B are both undermanned, together they may not be or they may still be undermanned. Their are a number of tools available to study this and determine service levels. Once thats done, the personnel needs to meet those service levels are calculated.

The main cost savings come from reduction in duplication in support functions (payroll, HR, training, etc.) and if the districts are contiguous potentially fewer patrols are needed, because one unit maybe able to cover both sides of the previous boarder (that needed 2 before). Also fewer special services maybe needed, i.e 2 swat teams wont be needed, but maybe a few extra officers on 1 team.

[Bnechis 3,961]

With the exceptions of Yonkers, Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, White Plains, Port Chester and Peekskill, I think that would work well. These cities listed above really need their own police force.

Why?

If this was true, Harlem, Bed Sty, the South Bronx, etc. would need there own police, not NYPD.

[firedude 985]

Why?

If this was true, Harlem, Bed Sty, the South Bronx, etc. would need there own police, not NYPD.

They have bigger populations and more 'crime'. The NYPD is huge and has the right stuff to protect all 8.4 million people in NYC. Also in regard to response times. Are they going to put a precint in every village/city/town? If they want to save more money, they would close down police stations and consolidate.

Is the PSEF (aka The Westchester County Sheriff)going to be used for any of this consolidation?

[ptwatson 82]

They have bigger populations and more 'crime'. The NYPD is huge and has the right stuff to protect all 8.4 million people in NYC. Also in regard to response times. Are they going to put a precint in every village/city/town? If they want to save more money, they would close down police stations and consolidate.

Is the PSEF (aka The Westchester County Sheriff)going to be used for any of this consolidation?

From what I understand the County Sheriff's are a police auxillary extention of the County Police.? In my opinion you would have one county precinct in every town in Westchester. That precinct would cover that town and any village that is within that town. For example one precinct in Eastchester that would cover Eastchester, Tuckahoe and Bronxville etc.....

[firedude 985]

From what I understand the County Sheriff's are a police auxillary extention of the County Police.? In my opinion you would have one county precinct in every town in Westchester. That precinct would cover that town and any village that is within that town. For example one precinct in Eastchester that would cover Eastchester, Tuckahoe and Bronxville etc.....

Yes the County Sherff is an all volunteer extention of the WCP. Yes, I agree that one precinct per town/city/village would be nice an would really benifit the citizens. However, if they are going to combine and save money, they would probably close down and combine precincts. Take mamaroneck, they have The Village of Mamaroneck Police, Town of Mamaroneck Police and Larchmont Police. I think they could do some consolidation there because I don't think you need 3 Precincts together. Also, I know Rye already has a County Police precinct (Post 36) at playland but I don't think it is open year-round.

Just my opinion.

[Bnechis 3,961]

They have bigger populations and more 'crime'. The NYPD is huge and has the right stuff to protect all 8.4 million people in NYC. Also in regard to response times. Are they going to put a precint in every village/city/town? If they want to save more money, they would close down police stations and consolidate.

The crime rate in some areas of Westchester is(or was) greater than the areas of NYC I mentioned. And a county dept in Westchester would not have the right stuff if it was properly sized? Since police patrol, the number of stations does not have a major affect on response times.

Yes, I agree that one precinct per town/city/village would be nice an would really benifit the citizens. However, if they are going to combine and save money, they would probably close down and combine precincts. Take mamaroneck, they have The Village of Mamaroneck Police, Town of Mamaroneck Police and Larchmont Police. I think they could do some consolidation there because I don't think you need 3 Precincts together. Also, I know Rye already has a County Police precinct (Post 36) at playland but I don't think it is open year-round.

How does more precincts benifit other than it might save a mile or 2 drive. The costs are stagering and how often does the public go to the stations?

The playland "precinct" is really a substation and I think other than in name is not really a "precinct".

You are correct that depts could merge stations, the question is what is the right number?

Did you know that New Rochelle Police HQ is closer to parts of Larchmont, Town & Village of Mamaroneck, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Mt. Vernon, Eastchester, Bronxville, Tuckahoe and a very small portion of Scarsdale and Yonkers than to parts of New Rochelle? That would indicate that since it covers 100% of New Rochelle, the distance could cover much more (I do not think it would be physically large enogh or so configured to cover all of that area). Now the northern most 50 streets in New Rochelle are actually closer to White Plains PD HQ than to NRPD HQ.

What is the right size coverage area for a police precicnt? I don't know what if any formula is use (I know fire & EMS ones and I would think PD's are normally larger because they patrol vs. respond from the staation).

Based on the 1/2 way point between NRPD & WPPD I worked out a precinct radius of 3.75 miles. Based on that a single police dept in Westchester would need about 12 precincts. Nassau County has 8 (plus some local PDs) and they cover an area that is 25% smaller (433 vs. 287 sq miles). So I figure my quick #'s are not far off.

Lets see that a reduction of about 60% from the current number of stations. Cutting the cost of maintenance, insurance, staffing, replacement, etc. can we reduce our taxes, while improving capabilities, i would think so. Someone with a backround in police deployment will be better suited to do this than I, but with just a few minutes work, I think I have shown it is possible.

[Jybehofd 85]

In my opinion you would have one county precinct in every town in Westchester. That precinct would cover that town and any village that is within that town. For example one precinct in Eastchester that would cover Eastchester, Tuckahoe and Bronxville etc.....

yeah but that won't save too much money. you just need some place that patrols can turn out of, you don't need holding cells dispatchers, maybe some computers desks locker rooms and what not but not a whole station. Do it like the state troopers do, a couple of the barracks have holding cells i am sure there is room at the county jail for them too lol. I am sure a couple of the station or what not can be combined to also cut some costs but that will take years and i should be denied my pension by the time that starts to come to paper and pen

But this is a good start to cutting some of the LARGE amount of fat that is in Westchester county. hope it all works out and the community doesn't notice a change in services

Edited March 10, 2011 by Jybehofd

[helicopper 1,050]

The crime rate in some areas of Westchester is(or was) greater than the areas of NYC I mentioned. And a county dept in Westchester would not have the right stuff if it was properly sized? Since police patrol, the number of stations does not have a major affect on response times.

How does more precincts benifit other than it might save a mile or 2 drive. The costs are stagering and how often does the public go to the stations?

The playland "precinct" is really a substation and I think other than in name is not really a "precinct".

You are correct that depts could merge stations, the question is what is the right number?

Did you know that New Rochelle Police HQ is closer to parts of Larchmont, Town & Village of Mamaroneck, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Mt. Vernon, Eastchester, Bronxville, Tuckahoe and a very small portion of Scarsdale and Yonkers than to parts of New Rochelle? That would indicate that since it covers 100% of New Rochelle, the distance could cover much more (I do not think it would be physically large enogh or so configured to cover all of that area). Now the northern most 50 streets in New Rochelle are actually closer to White Plains PD HQ than to NRPD HQ.

What is the right size coverage area for a police precicnt? I don't know what if any formula is use (I know fire & EMS ones and I would think PD's are normally larger because they patrol vs. respond from the staation).

Based on the 1/2 way point between NRPD & WPPD I worked out a precinct radius of 3.75 miles. Based on that a single police dept in Westchester would need about 12 precincts. Nassau County has 8 (plus some local PDs) and they cover an area that is 25% smaller (433 vs. 287 sq miles). So I figure my quick #'s are not far off.

Lets see that a reduction of about 60% from the current number of stations. Cutting the cost of maintenance, insurance, staffing, replacement, etc. can we reduce our taxes, while improving capabilities, i would think so. Someone with a backround in police deployment will be better suited to do this than I, but with just a few minutes work, I think I have shown it is possible.

Precincts also have to take population into consideration; they're not strictly geographically based. Bigger geographical precinct, smaller population and vice versa.

[islander 27]

It makes sense for us working folk, but consider some points: Do the cities get included? With the exception of Rye and Peekskill, the cities have their own civil service commissions that hired and govern a couple hundred cops. Logistically and legislatively that would seem to complicate matters. For instance, Nassau County's cities have their own PD's.

Also, would the more affluent areas be able to opt out? Studies have been done and it has been offered that my town absorb a smaller affluent village, but it's been so far rejected because of the smaller village's "community identity" and "name recognition". At 3am when some a-hole is breaking into your house, does it really matter what it says on the side of the patrol car? But I digress.

It's a good idea in concept, but seeing how things work in this county I would be surprised to see a single county PD become a reality. At least until we're all long retired anyway.

[bfxfd 8]

It makes sense for us working folk, but consider some points: Do the cities get included? With the exception of Rye and Peekskill, the cities have their own civil service commissions that hired and govern a couple hundred cops. Logistically and legislatively that would seem to complicate matters. For instance, Nassau County's cities have their own PD's.

Also, would the more affluent areas be able to opt out? Studies have been done and it has been offered that my town absorb a smaller affluent village, but it's been so far rejected because of the smaller village's "community identity" and "name recognition". At 3am when some a-hole is breaking into your house, does it really matter what it says on the side of the patrol car? But I digress.

It's a good idea in concept, but seeing how things work in this county I would be surprised to see a single county PD become a reality. At least until we're all long retired anyway.

That is true. There are definetley some affluent areas that would have none of it. The people who live there are willing to pay a premium for police officers they know personally. In my opinion, I think that knowing who is going to come help deal with the ahole in your house is what the people who are paying for the police want. I know that when there was talk of merger in my village there was very little support from the people. They felt that there were other ways to save money. I beleive that most people are not bothered by paying thier local taxes which in most places in Westchester are small when compared to school taxes. Also, maybe we should look towards increasing local services and cutting spending in places where it is not needed. For example in the town of Greenburgh is there a real need for the town to duplicate the police resources of the villages. Is there really a need for a town government, is there really a need for a county governemnt the size of westchesters. granted there are certain services that are provided that we need but there is definetley room to save.

[SECTMB 612]

Down here in sunny and warm Palm Beach County, FL.(which, I believe, is the largest County East of the Mississippi, 1,800 Sq. miles, 750K residents) and throughout the State, with the exception of the larger cities, all police and fire are provided on a county wide basis. This past year several older independent police and fire departments have been absorbed into the County for the cost and other performance benefits that the single larger agency can provide.

On the police side, there are typically substations in the larger towns, like mine, and they are commanded by a Captain.

On the fire side, there are 46 fire stations. The standard fire station with 1 Engine, 1 Rescue (Paramedic Ambulance). Other stations house additional equipment such as Brush Trucks, Tenders (Tankers), Ladders, etc.

Both the Sheriffs office and the Fire Department have Helicopters stationed at PBIA in West Palm Beach. The FD operates two "Trauma Hawk" medical helicopters.

That's the good stuff. On the flip side, there are the County Commissioners who have their hands in everything, regulation wise, and sometimes its like a "Porky's" movie. We regularly send our Commissioners to jail for self serving deal making.

[helicopper 1,050]

It makes sense for us working folk, but consider some points: Do the cities get included? With the exception of Rye and Peekskill, the cities have their own civil service commissions that hired and govern a couple hundred cops. Logistically and legislatively that would seem to complicate matters. For instance, Nassau County's cities have their own PD's.

Also, would the more affluent areas be able to opt out? Studies have been done and it has been offered that my town absorb a smaller affluent village, but it's been so far rejected because of the smaller village's "community identity" and "name recognition". At 3am when some a-hole is breaking into your house, does it really matter what it says on the side of the patrol car? But I digress.

It's a good idea in concept, but seeing how things work in this county I would be surprised to see a single county PD become a reality. At least until we're all long retired anyway.

The four big cities (Yonkers, Mount Vernon, New Rochelle and White Plains) are all busy enough to stay on their own.

While I certainly am an advocate of the County PD approach to regionalization, there are also other ways to achieve savings and streamline operations. All the villages within towns that have their own PD's could be absorbed into the Town PD, that would reduce the number of jobs by about a third. Greenburgh would become the second or third largest PD in the County if the six village PD's consolidated with them.

Opt out? Jurisdictions have to opt in and seek out this type of inter-municipal agreement so the "more affluent" as you put it can choose to continue to pay absurdly high taxes if they want to while the smarter ones do what's best and reduce taxes.

Many didn't think we'd see this one happen during our careers so it is quite likely that there will be more consolidation/regionalization in the next several years.

[helicopper 1,050]

That is true. There are definetley some affluent areas that would have none of it. The people who live there are willing to pay a premium for police officers they know personally. In my opinion, I think that knowing who is going to come help deal with the ahole in your house is what the people who are paying for the police want. I know that when there was talk of merger in my village there was very little support from the people. They felt that there were other ways to save money. I beleive that most people are not bothered by paying thier local taxes which in most places in Westchester are small when compared to school taxes. Also, maybe we should look towards increasing local services and cutting spending in places where it is not needed. For example in the town of Greenburgh is there a real need for the town to duplicate the police resources of the villages. Is there really a need for a town government, is there really a need for a county governemnt the size of westchesters. granted there are certain services that are provided that we need but there is definetley room to save.

I am willing to bet that most of the people in the community's you describe have absolutely no idea who the cops are so it isn't knowing them personally that appeals to them. It's the notion that they somehow can exert control over them because of the local politics.

We're looking at different sides of the same coin. You seem to be advocating doing away with the County or Town levels of service while I'm advocating the reverse, do away with the smaller levels and regionalize.

You can't just do away with a town PD and have a village cover it because the village has no authority outside its borders. Sure, special legislation could be passed but it is cleaner and simpler for the larger to absorb several smaller than the reverse.

If we do away with County government we eliminate one entity but still have 42 local ones. If we consolidate local governments we could wind up with a county, 10-15 towns and 6 citiies - half the number of governments. The state has difficulty dealing with the 57 counties and NYC, how on earth could they deal with 1500 local jurisdictions? Does this mean we need a health department in every town/city/village? How about transportation, social services, motor vehicles, clerk, and all the other services that are often provided by the county on behalf of or in lieu of the state?

You're right on the mark about schools and I support their consolidation as well but we'll never see that happen unless there's a revolution.

[ptwatson 82]

Opt out? Jurisdictions have to opt in and seek out this type of inter-municipal agreement so the "more affluent" as you put it can choose to continue to pay absurdly high taxes if they want to while the smarter ones do what's best and reduce taxes.

For example Bronxville. It's quite affluent but it's only ONE square mile. Why on earth do they need their own police force? In my opinion it's a status thing. But hey it's Bronxville we are talking about. Some of the resident's are clueless. I can recall being on a scene a few times with Eastchester F.D. (EFD covers the entire town) and the resident wondering where the Bronxville F.D. was.. lol

[islander 27]

You can't just do away with a town PD and have a village cover it because the village has no authority outside its borders. Sure, special legislation could be passed but it is cleaner and simpler for the larger to absorb several smaller than the reverse.

If you're in the air over today's bank robbery in a certain small affluent village maybe you could broadcast this in a loop over a loudspeaker. They seem to think differently.