When Is An Emergency Services SUV Deemed Unfit?

[x635 4,066]

Reading about today's fire of a Greenburgh PD EMS flycar, it didn't suprise me that it had 130,000 miles, as Greenburgh tends to keep their vehicles for quite a while. This vehicle used to be the ALS flycar for the 6 villages in the Town Of Greenburgh, so it racked up a lot of mileage.

Which makes me wonder. When is a converted OEM stock SUV (Chevy Tahoe, Ford Expedition, etc) deemed done in emergency services? No matter how great the maintainence, at what mileage do these cars become unsafe and be unfit for use? I mean, even for a civilian vehicle, that would be a lot of mileage. With the torture an EMS flycar goes through, including operating in all weather conditions and responding code 3 on a variety of roadways 24/7, at what point does the structure of the vehicle "give up".

Is there a point where there should be a standard? Even if it's a "reserve" vehicle.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

From what I have seen, they get used until its more expensive to repair the unit as opposed to the entire value. Some of the WEMS fly cars barely work yet they are on the road 24/7 doing their thing. So long as it stops and goes it good.

[sympathomedic 383]

I believe that an old NYS law prevented a new owner of an ambulance from re-registering it as an ambulance after it was 10 years of age. The original owner could run it forever, and a person who bought it at less than 10 years of age could re-register it forever. But after 10 years, it could not be sold to a new owner for use as an ambulance in NYS. A small attempts to limit fleet ages. Now I have heard that law was removed, and it was for ambulances only, not non-transporting units.

As the previous poster said, it is a law of economics. OR, if a vehicle failure leads to loss of life- the defibrillator that was going to save my client burned up on I-287- it becomes a rule of liability.

Bill

[PEMO3 523]

Personally I believe placing a standard, be it 5 years, 10 years, 50,000 miles or 100,000 miles is not truly effective or practical. Whenever you paint with such a broad brush you do not have clear, concise and effective legislation. Best example is the law that sympathomedic quotes. While a 10 year old bus may not be the best or first choice for an emergency service as a "new" first line vehicle it might very well suffice as a interfacility transport vehicle for non-emergent/non-critical patients. A 3 to 4 year old bus run 24 /7 in a high volume high mileage environment with over 100K in mileage may not be fit for a coffee run nevertheless being registered as an ambulance. I think standards aside, maintenance, mileage, and conditions of operation need to be made on a case by case basis with standards as a guide not a steadfast rule.

[Task Force 7 65]

What is a EMS flycar?

[ny10570 745]

A practical and effective standard based on mileage or age is impossible. Compare a 5 year old anything in NYC vs its suburban counterpart at 10 years. Too many factors in road condition, highway vs stop and go, miles, and running hours to set a real standard. This is where civil court plays a roll. If you allow your fleet to become so run down as to be unreliable you will get cleaned out when that vehicle failure results in patient injury or death.

[Alpinerunner 61]

I disagree that there is an age or mileage at which a vehicle is unsafe or unreliable. If you do proper inspections and preventative maintentance, and check the chassis for rust, a vehicle can be safe and reliable indefinitely. The issue, of course, becomes economics.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I disagree that there is an age or mileage at which a vehicle is unsafe or unreliable. If you do proper inspections and preventative maintentance, and check the chassis for rust, a vehicle can be safe and reliable indefinitely. The issue, of course, becomes economics.

Then why are new safety standards developped? If a model t was safe, why produce anything safer?

[Alpinerunner 61]

Then why are new safety standards developped? If a model t was safe, why produce anything safer?

That could become a factor if said maintenance is kept up very well and the vehicle lasts a significant amount of years.

But we aren't talking about keeping up with safety innovations, we're talking about reliability.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Each vehicle will vary greatly depending on usage, even within large departments. It should be left up to trained mechanics who can determine when a vehicle has begun to deteriorate to the point it is no longer safe or cost effective to continue to repair. With all the current economic problems my fear is things will get run till the wheels come off, and then the wheels get put back on.

Edited March 4, 2011 by grumpyff

[joetnymedic 43]

Here's an oldie but Goodie. I'm sure WAS967 will agree that this vehicle was totally "safe" ::::::eye roll:::::::

[x635 4,066]

With all the current economic problems my fear is things will get run till the wheels come off, and then the wheels get put back on.

I've had that problem....twice. Once in the middle of a major bridge while I was in the back with a vent patient in an ambulance. Another while I was brining a flycar back to the station after advising my supervisor that I was taking it out of service because it didn't feel right. I was told it was the 4x4 which the mechanic said couldn't be fixed until it broke and to keep it in service. However, I felt differently, and on my way back, wheel started violently shaking (please do not name agencies), so I pulled into a parking lot, only to see my tire rolling fast down toward a plate glass storefront. Luckily, it was intercepted by a nearby worker. It did body damage to the vehicle. The lugs just completly sheared off. I could only imagine what would have happened has I been on a highway. And even luckier, this was all captured on the dash cam, both the wheel falling off and my reaction.....lol

BOTH were in vehicles that had well over 100,000 miles on them. Both were attributed to metal fatigue, something which is hard to detect.

[Alpinerunner 61]

I believe a wheel fell off a GEMS ambulance in the past week en route to 95, and they run new ambulances! You can't prevent everything.