Metro North M8s enter revenue service

[rfdu39 89]

An eight car train of M8s entered revenue service today on the New Haven Line. It did serval trips on the New Haven Line.

[okcomputer 12]

I'm a monthly commuter and I don't mean to cone off as rude but it is PATHETIC in regards to how long it has taken MTA MNR to get these trains operational, and it's pathetic that this past winter we the commuter had to deal with a raise in fares, and less trains. In the opinion of this commuter the upper echelon should be let go and have to commute during peak hours on the trains and should have to pay the on board fare everyday.

Also one train? Shows exactly how many layers of retardation are within the MTA.

[rfdu39 89]

It took so long because the first test train had to complete 4,000 problem free test miles and any problem set the clock back to 0. The one train is the one that cleared the 4,000 test miles. There will be another train in service in a few weeks.

Edited March 2, 2011 by rfdu39

[firedude 985]

It's about time!

[cas2383 22]

I Take this line daily into the city and it is still too little WAY too late.

[grumpyff 1,159]

I'm a monthly commuter and I don't mean to cone off as rude but it is PATHETIC in regards to how long it has taken MTA MNR to get these trains operational, and it's pathetic that this past winter we the commuter had to deal with a raise in fares, and less trains. In the opinion of this commuter the upper echelon should be let go and have to commute during peak hours on the trains and should have to pay the on board fare everyday.

Also one train? Shows exactly how many layers of retardation are within the MTA.

Your anger is directed in the wrong location. It is the State of Connecticut's fault. Metro North owns 50% of the cars and wanted to replace them years ago. The state dragged its feet until it was too late. MTA Metro North did the best they could with the cards dealt to them.

Only The first train did the 4000 mile acceptance test, now the rest only have to do 1000 miles of trouble free testing. Better to wait the get stuck between stations because something new and untested failed.

Edited March 2, 2011 by grumpyff

[dadbo46 50]

Your anger is directed in the wrong location. It is the State of Connecticut's fault. Metro North owns 50% of the cars and wanted to replace them years ago. The state dragged its feet until it was too late. MTA Metro North did the best they could with the cards dealt to them.

Only The first train did the 4000 mile acceptance test, now the rest only have to do 1000 miles of trouble free testing. Better to wait the get stuck between stations because something new and untested failed.

Absolutely.

[TRUCK6018 50]

I agree with all the other replies. Very little of the issues with the M8 delays (or the chronic breakdowns of the aging M4 and M6's) are directly related to Metro North. This is mostly the result of Connecticut DOT waiting too long to purchase the new cars. Once the cars started testing there were numerous flaws that had to be worked out. In my opinion Metro North did the best they could given a bad situation.

Now that the new fleet is slowly coming into revenue service it should be interesting if Connecticut is going to raise their fares as stated last summer. The New York fares have been raised about three times since Connecticut's have been raised. It is my speculation that when Connecticut's do get raised it's going to be steep.

[okcomputer 12]

Your anger is directed in the wrong location. It is the State of Connecticut's fault. Metro North owns 50% of the cars and wanted to replace them years ago. The state dragged its feet until it was too late. MTA Metro North did the best they could with the cards dealt to them.

Only The first train did the 4000 mile acceptance test, now the rest only have to do 1000 miles of trouble free testing. Better to wait the get stuck between stations because something new and untested failed.

I know the backstory with Connecticut. But I really don't feel or believe Metro North did the best they could. But they have raised the fares.

It's a corrupt company in general IMHO. For many reasons.

[M' Ave 1,466]

I know the backstory with Connecticut. But I really don't feel or believe Metro North did the best they could. But they have raised the fares.

It's a corrupt company in general IMHO. For many reasons.

Metro-North has done a text book job of bringing the M-8 online. They spent a great deal of time planning and researching a new design. Once the first sets arrived, they began an aggressive daily testing routine. As per the contract, they cars had to withstand 4,000 problem free miles before acceptance. When there is any failure of any kind, the clock resets to zero. There are always issues in the beginning that need to be ironed out. Those first cars were running all hours of the night to rack up the miles and put them through their paces. Corrections have been made and now they have been accepted. They have entered revenue service as fast as MNRR could have possibly gotten them there.

The only person to blame is the previous governor of Connecticut. His short sighted administration delayed funding repeatedly. Ct. is responsible for 70% of the New Haven lines costs, including fleet purchase costs. The M-8 design was finalized almost 5 years ago and funding was the only delay.

Metro-North can't pay for them without gov't funding.

Metro-North can't put them inservice without the appropriate testing

Metro-North can't make Kawasaki build them faster, nor can it make the ships, trucks and trains get them here any faster.

You'll note that when NY was solely responsible for the replacement of the M-1 and M-3 with the M-7, we didn't wait this long.

Your anger is completely misplaced. There is only one group responsible for the delay and that is the Conn. Dept. of Transportation operating under the previous Governor's administration. Thankfully Gov. Rell took office and saw funding delivered.

As for MNRR being a corrupt organization...well, no one doubts an interstate agency's high level of bureaucracy, but you should travel back in time 25 years and see what the railroad looked like then. MNRR under MTA has transformed a hodge-podge of railroads and equipment, with dilapidated infrastructure and rolling stock into one of the smoothest running commuter operations in the United States.

Your comment certainly negates your knowledge of any "back-story".

Edited March 3, 2011 by M' Ave

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Any idea how these new cars will be distributed? When will the Harlem line see some? Hudson line?

I cant wait to ride in one for myself. It is about time something is being done! Better late than never.

[grumpyff 1,159]

They will mostly stay on the New Haven line. Occasionally you may see them in Croton or even Brewster, but that is rare.

[SOUSGT 357]

Any idea how these new cars will be distributed? When will the Harlem line see some? Hudson line?

I cant wait to ride in one for myself. It is about time something is being done! Better late than never.

The new cars were designed for the New Haven line. The other lines as well as the LIRR have already received new cars. What makes the M8s different is they have third rail and panagraph electrical systems. The cars designed for the Hudson and Harlem lines can not run on the New Haven line between Mt Vernon and New Haven as they switch over to overhead wires in Pelham.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

They will mostly stay on the New Haven line. Occasionally you may see them in Croton or even Brewster, but that is rare.

The new cars were designed for the New Haven line. The other lines as well as the LIRR have already received new cars. What makes the M8s different is they have third rail and panagraph electrical systems. The cars designed for the Hudson and Harlem lines can not run on the New Haven line between Mt Vernon and New Haven as they switch over to overhead wires in Pelham.

Thanks for the information.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Any idea how these new cars will be distributed? When will the Harlem line see some? Hudson line?

I cant wait to ride in one for myself. It is about time something is being done! Better late than never.

The answer is, never. They'll never run in regular Harlem or Hudson line service. The only time they'll operate on the Hudson line will be for Yankee Clipper trains from 153rd St., when traveling to the Highbridge Yard, to Kawasaki for warranty work or RARELY to the Harmon shops in Croton on Hudson. The vast majority of maintenance will be performed at the yards in New Haven, Ct.

In the future these cars might see service East of New Haven, on the Shoreline East. They are capable, in practice, of running over the Hell Gate Bridge into Penn, but this is not slated for any time in the near future.

The Harlem and Hudson lines have the M-7. The M-8 was paid for, in large part, but Connecticut and they want their trains running in their state. The M-8 is very unique in it's ability to operate on two types of electrical collection methods and utilize multiple voltages, including switching from A/C to D/C power. Their dual-mode abilities make them CONSIDERABLY more expensive than the single mode M-7.

There is no shortage of equipment on the two NY lines and there is a serious shortage on the New Haven Line. The capabilities of the M-8 serve no purpose on the Harlem and Hudson, there for you will not see them in revenue service on those lines.

Edited March 3, 2011 by M' Ave

[ny10570 745]

Here's a good blog post detailing the recent delays of the M8s from Jim Cameron, the MetroNorth Ct commuter council chairman.

[TRUCK6018 50]

Here's a good blog post detailing the recent delays of the M8s from Jim Cameron, the MetroNorth Ct commuter council chairman.

Could it be? An article by Cameron that isn't bashing Metro North? Or is it he just usually doesn't have anything useful to say?

Edited March 3, 2011 by TRUCK6018

[ny10570 745]

I've only read his blog, but he is passionate about mass transit and overall fairly complimentary towards metro north. His consistent gripe seems to be with their capital improvement choices which I tend to agree with (east side access being a big one). In his position as the commuter council chairman his job is to slam and criticize the agency. No different than the strap hangers group in the city.

[tjd1012 5]

They will mostly stay on the New Haven line. Occasionally you may see them in Croton or even Brewster, but that is rare.

you will only see them in croton for wheel true,new haven does not yet have the capabilities to true the wheels on an m8. I highly doubt you will ever see one in Brewster

Edited March 3, 2011 by tjd1012

[tjd1012 5]

Metro-North has done a text book job of bringing the M-8 online. They spent a great deal of time planning and researching a new design. Once the first sets arrived, they began an aggressive daily testing routine. As per the contract, they cars had to withstand 4,000 problem free miles before acceptance. When there is any failure of any kind, the clock resets to zero. There are always issues in the beginning that need to be ironed out. Those first cars were running all hours of the night to rack up the miles and put them through their paces. Corrections have been made and now they have been accepted. They have entered revenue service as fast as MNRR could have possibly gotten them there.

The only person to blame is the previous governor of Connecticut. His short sighted administration delayed funding repeatedly. Ct. is responsible for 70% of the New Haven lines costs, including fleet purchase costs. The M-8 design was finalized almost 5 years ago and funding was the only delay.

Metro-North can't pay for them without gov't funding.

Metro-North can't put them inservice without the appropriate testing

Metro-North can't make Kawasaki build them faster, nor can it make the ships, trucks and trains get them here any faster.

You'll note that when NY was solely responsible for the replacement of the M-1 and M-3 with the M-7, we didn't wait this long.

Your anger is completely misplaced. There is only one group responsible for the delay and that is the Conn. Dept. of Transportation operating under the previous Governor's administration. Thankfully Gov. Rell took office and saw funding delivered.

As for MNRR being a corrupt organization...well, no one doubts an interstate agency's high level of bureaucracy, but you should travel back in time 25 years and see what the railroad looked like then. MNRR under MTA has transformed a hodge-podge of railroads and equipment, with dilapidated infrastructure and rolling stock into one of the smoothest running commuter operations in the United States.

Your comment certainly negates your knowledge of any "back-story".

No M3's were ever replaced only the M1's.

[mikeinet 37]

In the future these cars might see service East of New Haven, on the Shoreline East. They are capable, in practice, of running over the Hell Gate Bridge into Penn, but this is not slated for any time in the near future.

I thought I read that they can actually run all the way up to boston?

What's special about the hell gate bridge that requires specalized equipment?

[Alpinerunner 61]

I'm definitely looking forward to these trains. I hope they ride smoother than the current NH line trains. I used to ride the Harlem line in from Katonah, and there is a dramatic difference in smoothness between the NH line and Harlem line. I'm not sure if it's the track or the trains, but the NH line is like riding a logging truck compared to the Harlem line

[Alpinerunner 61]

Hopefully the M8s ride smoother than the current trains on the NH line. I'm not sure if it's the trains or the track, but I used to ride the Harlem line in from Katonah, and compared to that, the NH line rides like a logging truck

[Alpinerunner 61]

Hopefully the M8s ride smoother than the current trains on the NH line. I'm not sure if it's the trains or the track, but I used to ride the Harlem line in from Katonah, and compared to that, the NH line rides like a logging truck

EDIT: Sorry for the repeat posts. Board was giving me this error when I tried to submit. I continue to get this problem:

An error occured with the SQL server:

mySQL query error: SELECT COUNT(*) as topicviews FROM ibf_topic_views WHERE views_tid=40876

This is not a problem with IP.Board but rather with your SQL server. Please contact your host and copy the message shown above.

Mods please delete.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Alpinerunner

[M' Ave 1,466]

No M3's were ever replaced only the M1's.

Are you certain? I'm not, but I thought that the total number of M-7s exceeded the number of M-1s retired. The retired 0 M-3s?

[M' Ave 1,466]

I thought I read that they can actually run all the way up to boston?

What's special about the hell gate bridge that requires specalized equipment?

Amtrak owns and operates the line East of New Haven and also the Hell Gate line from New Rochelle through the Sunnyside Yards. They use different voltages and the M-8 can't handle all of them. Metro-North operates, I'm told, at 12.5 kv 60hz. Amtrak, from New Rochelle South, operates at 12.5 kv 25hz. East of New Haven has been upgraded to allow the M-8 to operate normally, although a run to Boston is about as likely as the Mets winning the World Series this year.

As for Hell Gate, the 3rd rail would have to be extended across the bridge from the LIRR lines into Penn and almost all the way to New Rochelle. This presents another challenge, however, as the LIRR uses an over-running 3rd rail and MNRR uses and under running 3rd rail. There is, supposedly, a 3rd rail shoe for the M8 that will adjust position to run on either system.

**Sourced from MNRR employee. I'm just a buff!

Edited March 3, 2011 by M' Ave

[tjd1012 5]

Are you certain? I'm not, but I thought that the total number of M-7s exceeded the number of M-1s retired. The retired 0 M-3s?

I am certain

[IzzyEng4 427]

One of the major problems with the new car why it took so long was because thy were causing interference with Metro-North's signaling system along the tracks. They wanted to make sure that the problem was rectified before any service.

Here is the wiki info"

Technical Problems

Testing for the M-8 has revealed numerous technical problems delaying the fleet from revenue service.[13] The most notable issue was in December 2010 when it was discovered an electromagnetic pulse from the cars affected the signal system. Due to this problem testing was temporarily suspended but has since resumed.

Quite honestly I rather Metro North go through the trains thoroughly and make sure they are working properly before being placed into service. I rather sat through the delays than worried about getting into an accident with a non-100% operating train system.

I know this for a fact because of a person who I know works in the NH shops and worked on getting the trains.

[okcomputer 12]

Text book job? I will still disagree with that. Yes the former Governor of CT is at fault, there is no doubt about it.

However the rate raising on both the MNR (note: none of the mnr ct stops had their fares raised) and the subway and bus lines don't add up.

It is a shame that there are no longer any train construction companies in the US, or closer than Japan.

7+ years with numerous fare increases is too long of a time for new trains especially when the need for the to be replaced should have come up in the early 1990's.

Just out of curiosity where did you find out all that info? I'd be interested in reading it.

/rant

I will say that the MTA PD K-9 Officers have been doing an outstanding job. I work right next to GCT and those officers are diligent and I hope they receive the credit they deserve.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Text book job? I will still disagree with that. Yes the former Governor of CT is at fault, there is no doubt about it.

However the rate raising on both the MNR (note: none of the mnr ct stops had their fares raised) and the subway and bus lines don't add up.

It is a shame that there are no longer any train construction companies in the US, or closer than Japan.

7+ years with numerous fare increases is too long of a time for new trains especially when the need for the to be replaced should have come up in the early 1990's.

Just out of curiosity where did you find out all that info? I'd be interested in reading it.

/rant

I will say that the MTA PD K-9 Officers have been doing an outstanding job. I work right next to GCT and those officers are diligent and I hope they receive the credit they deserve.

You disagree, but you explain no portion of your position. WHY do you disagree? Do you have some facts to contest mine?

The M-8 is being built in Nebraska, only the first few sets where built in Japan.

As for the fare increases, well, no one likes them. However, your fare still covers only about 40% of operational costs. Every gov't and quasi gov't agency could use a little waste control, no question about it. However, the MTA is far from a corrupt organization.

I also have to agree with the feelings about capitol plans. How about that direct connection to West of Hudson Service?! There are a great deal of projects that I'd like to see completed before East Side Access.

For more info, visit www.Railroad.net

It's an excellent source.