Should A VAC Line Officer Have Medical Training?

[MoFire390 118]

I mean, we are just volunteers! No one can hold us accountable. We're only trying to do out best.

To quote the great Sean Connery "Your best? Losers always complain about trying your best. Winners go home and "have a nice dinner" with the prom queen"

really!!! no one can hold us accountable??? i beg to differ with you. because if u mess up on the street and kill someone for something neglagent. guess whos being held accountable??? you are. not ur officer for not training you but u for not fallowing ur protocals or medical direction.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I mean, we are just volunteers! No one can hold us accountable. We're only trying to do out best.

To quote the great Sean Connery "Your best? Losers always complain about trying your best. Winners go home and "have a nice dinner" with the prom queen"

really!!! no one can hold us accountable??? i beg to differ with you. because if u mess up on the street and kill someone for something neglagent. guess whos being held accountable??? you are. not ur officer for not training you but u for not fallowing ur protocals or medical direction.

I had assumed he was being sarcastic...I hope I was right lol

[Guest nyff123]

Why are we even talking about this? How could one expected to be a line officer with no training. A VAC line officer's priorities include supervising their EMTs. How could you supervise them if you don't have any medical training.

This is a terrible topic, lets use some common sense please.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Note to all: Dont get me wrong. EMTs are responsible for their own skills and training as well.

Yes they are, but the agency has a responsibility to supervise and "failure to supervise" will attach liability to the agency.

[MoFire390 118]

Yes they are, but the agency has a responsibility to supervise and "failure to supervise" will attach liability to the agency.

indeed capt. but remember your medical director can also pull u from riding as an EMT if he/she sees you unfit and dangerous to those u are trying to help

[Bnechis 3,961]

indeed capt. but remember your medical director can also pull u from riding as an EMT if he/she sees you unfit and dangerous to those u are trying to help

Very true. However it is very rare to see them pull someone, particularly at the BLS level.

[MoFire390 118]

just look at the DOH site. tells u who and how come their cards got pulled

[16fire5 693]

Is there any written policy or law saying that an EMS operational line officer has to be an EMT or a fire chief has to be a FF?

Or is this just tradition?

If your not an EMT you really have no ability to supervise patient care since the highest level of care is in charge. This is why all FDNY EMS promotions to Lieutenant are now Paramedics. EMS Lt.'s that were EMTs were technically out ranked by the paramedics. So yeah NYS is pretty clear who is in charge of pt. care.

For the fire side the OSHA Fire Brigade Standard which is the most fundamental regulation for all fire departments states

" Fire brigade leaders and training instructors shall be provided with training and education which is more comprehensive than that provided to the general membership of the fire brigade."

[Bnechis 3,961]

Is there any written policy or law saying that an EMS operational line officer has to be an EMT or a fire chief has to be a FF?

Or is this just tradition?

Career FD's have state mandates for basic and officer training and chiefs are civil service positions that have prerequisits for advancment.

[ny10570 745]

Is there any written policy or law saying that an EMS operational line officer has to be an EMT or a fire chief has to be a FF?

Or is this just tradition?

Fire officers up to COD are all civil service positions promoted from below. COD while not civil service is still an appointment from below. Even if there's nothing written in the job description, the hiring pool is all firefighters. EMS requires officers to maintain their certification as a condition of employment. Medic officers can let their REMAC go and become EMT bosses but Medic is currently required for Lt and will likely become a requirement for other positions.

Edited July 1, 2011 by ny10570

[NWFDMedic 58]

In the volunteer service, it truly would depend on the job description. If you have a lieutenant position strictly for ambulance maintenance and you're lucky enough to have a driver who is a diesel mechanic who volunteers his time, I don't have a problem with having him as an officer. However, I think I would change the name of the position from the traditional "Lieutenant" to something specific to the job duty (maybe Logistics Officer) and put it in a specific spot in the VAC chain of command. In a large scale incident, you wouldn't want this guy as the IC or Triage Officer, however, he may be the person designated to track vehicle uses, threats to vehicle in-service times, establishment of on-scene "quick" services as needed, etc. It would be more of a command staff position rather than a rank in a traditional chain of command.