Priorities in Emergency Services - What is Actually Important?

[JohnnyOV 2]

I am going to get on my very young and gung-ho soapbox right now and speak my mind. Feel free to let the flame war ensue since I'll be opening Pandora's Box right now.

Currently we have numerous, very active threads going on in the main board and that is fantastic. I am happy to be part of a very active discussion board that allows for open discussion on any topic we so choose totalk about. There is always a new post or discussion or someone chiming in on something that provides a new direction, or insight on the topic.

What does bother's me though, is the priorities that I feel many people have, as to what is actually important to the fire service, and it reflects on the types of threads posted and the activity of each thread. Currently we have threads about types of colors on chiefs cars, blue lights, other secondary/tertiary discussions as to who should have what. I have no problem with these threads as they enlighten others as to certain laws and other regulatory information.

What does bother me though is when you have a member post a topic about resources in the county and what department has special teams, only one person answers… Why? Do we really care so little about preplanning and foresight before an incident that we would much rather discuss the correct angle of chevrons over running an incident efficiently and smoothly? I know I personally was really looking forward to seeing what departments have around the county, so in case my department ever needs assistance to something we cannot ourselves handle butsomeone else can, they can be called upon.

We also have the "Tactical considerations" forum, which is a fantastic idea, but it rarely gets used, and when it does, only 2-5 people chime in with an answer. If you're wrong with an answer, who cares? It's only online training and you'll learn from your mistake. It's better done here, then out at an actual incident.

Sure I like to "buff out" every now and then as much as the next guy and get ideas from apparatus photos, but I think proactively talking and learning from other people about pre planning actual operations, or what an IC would have done differently at a fire is much more important then who won what at who's parade. There is such a vast wealth of knowledge on this board, it puzzles me that no one wants to actually release information for whatever reason they so choose.

Not a day goes by where I do not learn something new about the fireservice, and this board has definitely supplied me and numerous other people with a plethora of information. I can only hope that more people talk about the operational and tactical side of the fire service, as to me this is what truly matters and where departments stand out. The general population does not care about your roto-ray, or your undercover chief's car. They want their fire put out quickly and efficiently and their family member cut out of their car without any more harm being done. Sure things look cool, but to me, what is far, far more important is providing a homeowner or taxpaying company relief when we show up because operationally, we look like an organized, well oiled army doing everything in our power to help them out.

I'm not sure if I'm totally off base here and singling myself out, and this is no way a shot at anyone in particular but this is just an observation I have been making over the last few months and felt like it was time to share my opinion.

edit: transfered from M.Word and the format was screwed up

Edited February 23, 2011 by JohnnyOV

[PEMO3 523]

You said exactly what I was feeling. And by the way thank you for posting the info on Yorktown FD's Special OPS Team.

Edited February 23, 2011 by PEMO3

[wraftery 1,275]

Me too, JohnnyOV

[bad box 371]

I am going to get on my very young and gung-ho soapbox right now and speak my mind. Feel free to let the flame war ensue since I'll be opening Pandora's Box right now.

Currently we have numerous, very active threads going on in the main board and that is fantastic. I am happy to be part of a very active discussion board that allows for open discussion on any topic we so choose totalk about. There is always a new post or discussion or someone chiming in on something that provides a new direction, or insight on the topic.

What does bother's me though, is the priorities that I feel many people have, as to what is actually important to the fire service, and it reflects on the types of threads posted and the activity of each thread. Currently we have threads about types of colors on chiefs cars, blue lights, other secondary/tertiary discussions as to who should have what. I have no problem with these threads as they enlighten others as to certain laws and other regulatory information.

What does bother me though is when you have a member post a topic about resources in the county and what department has special teams, only one person answers… Why? Do we really care so little about preplanning and foresight before an incident that we would much rather discuss the correct angle of chevrons over running an incident efficiently and smoothly? I know I personally was really looking forward to seeing what departments have around the county, so in case my department ever needs assistance to something we cannot ourselves handle butsomeone else can, they can be called upon.

We also have the "Tactical considerations" forum, which is a fantastic idea, but it rarely gets used, and when it does, only 2-5 people chime in with an answer. If you're wrong with an answer, who cares? It's only online training and you'll learn from your mistake. It's better done here, then out at an actual incident.

Sure I like to "buff out" every now and then as much as the next guy and get ideas from apparatus photos, but I think proactively talking and learning from other people about pre planning actual operations, or what an IC would have done differently at a fire is much more important then who won what at who's parade. There is such a vast wealth of knowledge on this board, it puzzles me that no one wants to actually release information for whatever reason they so choose.

Not a day goes by where I do not learn something new about the fireservice, and this board has definitely supplied me and numerous other people with a plethora of information. I can only hope that more people talk about the operational and tactical side of the fire service, as to me this is what truly matters and where departments stand out. The general population does not care about your roto-ray, or your undercover chief's car. They want their fire put out quickly and efficiently and their family member cut out of their car without any more harm being done. Sure things look cool, but to me, what is far, far more important is providing a homeowner or taxpaying company relief when we show up because operationally, we look like an organized, well oiled army doing everything in our power to help them out.

I'm not sure if I'm totally off base here and singling myself out, and this is no way a shot at anyone in particular but this is just an observation I have been making over the last few months and felt like it was time to share my opinion.

edit: transfered from M.Word and the format was screwed up

For someone who professes to be, "Young and gung-ho" ... your post shows you to be wise beyond your years. 'Buff stuff' is fine, unfortunately our main function as firefighters is to protect lives and property. This is an awesome task that requires constant training on new issues and techniques as well as continued practice on the skills (bread & butter) that we already should possess. As I was told by a senior man (old-timer) as a brand new Probationary Fireman (that was our job title back then) just out of the fire academy, "Hey kid, this is a dangerous job where we all must rely upon each other for survival. The people who call us for help need us to always be 'on top of our game'. The minute that you think that you have it all figured out and have nothing left to learn, you'll have to make an important decision: either retire or 'get back into the job' and study. Nobody on this job will ever know everything, those who think they do will get them self or somebody else killed." In closing 'JohnnyOV', you sound like you have the right attitude to be a success in this profession. If I wasn't retired, you would be the kind of Firefighter that I would want to have working with me when everything goes to s**t in seconds. Keep your head where it's at, don't be swayed by lazy, negative types!

[Alpinerunner 61]

The only thing I can think of is it's easier to comment on mindless things on the internet than real scenarios and tactics. In the case of the Westchester Co special resources, that is a localized region, and anyone outside that area wouldn't have any input on it. Additionally, I think it's hard to discuss specific tactics or discussing how a job would have gone better on the internet, when essentially no one on the board was there. I check VES all the time (dedicated to tactics and tools) and they only update every couple weeks. I'm not saying we can't do better, I'm just saying that I think it's hard to do routinely do over the internet.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Alpinerunner

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I am going to get on my very young and gung-ho soapbox right now and speak my mind. Feel free to let the flame war ensue since I'll be opening Pandora's Box right now.

Currently we have numerous, very active threads going on in the main board and that is fantastic. I am happy to be part of a very active discussion board that allows for open discussion on any topic we so choose totalk about. There is always a new post or discussion or someone chiming in on something that provides a new direction, or insight on the topic.

What does bother's me though, is the priorities that I feel many people have, as to what is actually important to the fire service, and it reflects on the types of threads posted and the activity of each thread. Currently we have threads about types of colors on chiefs cars, blue lights, other secondary/tertiary discussions as to who should have what. I have no problem with these threads as they enlighten others as to certain laws and other regulatory information.

What does bother me though is when you have a member post a topic about resources in the county and what department has special teams, only one person answers… Why? Do we really care so little about preplanning and foresight before an incident that we would much rather discuss the correct angle of chevrons over running an incident efficiently and smoothly? I know I personally was really looking forward to seeing what departments have around the county, so in case my department ever needs assistance to something we cannot ourselves handle butsomeone else can, they can be called upon.

We also have the "Tactical considerations" forum, which is a fantastic idea, but it rarely gets used, and when it does, only 2-5 people chime in with an answer. If you're wrong with an answer, who cares? It's only online training and you'll learn from your mistake. It's better done here, then out at an actual incident.

Sure I like to "buff out" every now and then as much as the next guy and get ideas from apparatus photos, but I think proactively talking and learning from other people about pre planning actual operations, or what an IC would have done differently at a fire is much more important then who won what at who's parade. There is such a vast wealth of knowledge on this board, it puzzles me that no one wants to actually release information for whatever reason they so choose.

Not a day goes by where I do not learn something new about the fireservice, and this board has definitely supplied me and numerous other people with a plethora of information. I can only hope that more people talk about the operational and tactical side of the fire service, as to me this is what truly matters and where departments stand out. The general population does not care about your roto-ray, or your undercover chief's car. They want their fire put out quickly and efficiently and their family member cut out of their car without any more harm being done. Sure things look cool, but to me, what is far, far more important is providing a homeowner or taxpaying company relief when we show up because operationally, we look like an organized, well oiled army doing everything in our power to help them out.

I'm not sure if I'm totally off base here and singling myself out, and this is no way a shot at anyone in particular but this is just an observation I have been making over the last few months and felt like it was time to share my opinion.

edit: transfered from M.Word and the format was screwed up

AMEN! Good post.

[791075 34]

Well said bro. The recent incident "discussions" posted are what I was hoping to get out of this website.

[JohnnyOV 2]

You said exactly what I was feeling. And by the way thank you for posting the info on Yorktown FD's Special OPS Team.

Not a problem brother. Guys in my department love utilizing our skills and putting them to work at scenes. If putting our name out there, and telling people who we are and what we can accomplish gets us called because of that thread, I'm all for it.

[helicopper 1,050]

Great post, JohnnyOV!

With regard to the scenario based threads in the tactical considerations forum, ANYONE can pose a scenario and ask how it would be handled. Some have snapped photos of buildings in their area that they "what if" driving by. Others have posted photos or videos to set the stage and finally others have just described a scenario to start a discussion.

THIS is what this site was created for. Feel free to post your own scenario or how would you handle that questions anytime!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Good post brother. I guess sometimes it may come down to go with what you know.

[abaduck 123]

You may be young but you seem to have your head screwed on better than quite a few older folks. Well said.

Mike

[FFPCogs 863]

Johnny,

Good post and as much as I personally agree with it we must remember that this site is for all types of emergency service related discussions ...even those seemingly unimportant to us. I tend to involve myself with the tactical discussions, those that deal with career/volunteer interaction...or lack thereof, or topics that are locally specific to CT. And that's what works for me. Others have different interests and this forum is their's too. They are free to express and share those interests here...just as we are free to disregard those which do not interest us.

I will say that I personally would love to see more in terms of tactical discussions but one of my pet peeves with those topics is that they usually degenerate along one of two lines. First is what I consider nitpicking. This is where members here feel they must critique the inconsequential aspects of a contributors video or photo posting. It never ceases to amaze me when the topic at hand is something like "what would you do if...." or "you pull up on this, now what" and we end up in a discussion on the color of an FDs turnout gear or some such nonsense completely unrelated to the tactical or strategic discussion. The other 'problem" I see is that many threads here ultimately become a career vs volunteer debate...many times brought about by those very same inconsequential detours mentioned above. Be this at it may this site and others like it are great resources and they serve us all well best when we take what we want (or need) and leave the rest.

If there's one thing I've learned in my time in the fire service it's that not everyone thinks as I do...(no matter how "right" I am)...but more importantly nor do they have to. This forum is an open one and as such all opinions and interests are welcome just as they should be.

Cogs

Edited March 28, 2011 by FFPCogs

[ffmc36 1]

This makes me think of 2 sayings:

1. “I’m trying to be more a part of the community, than part of the scene”. Coined by someone within the industry I work. I think this is exactly what JohnnyOV was saying; put more effort into adding value to the fire service community (sharing info in-order to teach and learn from), and a little less effort talking about the not so important buff-stuff.

2. “Function before fashion”. Told to me as a kid in regards to sports, but can definitely relate here. Don’t concern yourself with what kind of blue light you have on your car, and that you have the “coolest” gear; looking like a salty-experienced firefighter doesn’t make you one.

I’ve been coming here for over a year, and only as of late really trying to make an effort to contribute. Since I haven’t been in the fire service as long as most, I have hesitated to respond to posts even if I think I know the answer. I never hesitate like this at meetings or drills at my dept because I want to learn as much as I can (would much rather say or do something wrong at a drill then on the fireground ), and should be doing the same here.