New DOH policy statement on blood draws

[ckroll 101]

From 11-01:

"Please note that VTL §1194 is permissive. This means that an AEMT (Intermediate, Critical Care and Paramedic), is authorized to legally obtain a blood sample at the request of a police officer for the purpose of alcohol/drug screening, but the AEMT is not mandated to perform the procedure.

When the AEMT is acting pursuant to a request by a police officer relying on VTL §1194, the AEMT is acting independent of physician or medical control oversight. A patient/care-provider relationship between the AEMT and the person from whom the blood sample is to be taken does not exist. Consequently, it is important for AEMTs intending to act pursuant to VTL §1194 to prepare for such law enforcement requests. This policy is intended to assist AEMTs and EMS agencies in planning with respect to this law, but should not be considered complete and exclusive guidance." [emphasis mine]

Actually, it offers no guidance whatsoever. AEMTs will not be under any medical supervision, which I must assume means that they will not be operating under agency protection and I cannot imagine that personal insurance or good samaritan law will offer any protection.

I am alarmed at the possibilities for this to go wrong, not to mention the ethical quicksand of engaging in activity that can only serve to harm the patient. Topic for discussion, anyone? I am preparing for the request by planning to answer "No."

[INIT915 1,119]

If memory serves me right, we've already had an entire thread/discussion on this? I don't think anything has changed since, so not sure what could be added to the debate.

[ckroll 101]

If memory serves me right, we've already had an entire thread/discussion on this? I don't think anything has changed since, so not sure what could be added to the debate.

My apologies, I missed it. Could you direct me to the thread as I can't find it. Thanks

[ny10570 745]

This came up, and SEMAC has spent a lot of time discussing this in their meetings. In short, the state legislature has circumvented the state and regional boards and legislated an addition to our scope of practice. So any paramedic with a current card is legally allowed to do this. That paramedic is also allowed to refuse to perform the blood draw and cannot be compelled to do any more than what their agency requires. This will also require the patients expressed consent to perform the blood draw. If the patient is not agreeable to the draw or is otherwise unable to communicate that they want you to draw the blood you are not to draw the blood.

If you would like any more info on the this from SEMAC it is all right here in the minutes. By the way they are transcripts of the meetings, painfully long and boring. Good luck.

[helicopper 1,050]

My apologies, I missed it. Could you direct me to the thread as I can't find it. Thanks

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php/topic/33560-police-say-syringes-will-help-stop-drunk-driving/page__p__192166__hl__%2Bdwi+%2Bblood+%2Bdraw__fromsearch__1#entry192166

This is one thread and I'm pretty sure that there have been others as well.

[helicopper 1,050]

The policy statement also states:

Although VTL §1194 authorizes the AEMT to function independent of the physician medical director, medical control, and the local EMS system, AEMTs, EMS agencies, medical directors, legal advisors, and police agencies should cooperatively work together to facilitate VTL §1194 blood draws at the local level. This policy is intended only as a guide to assist AEMTs, EMS and police agencies in planning for the police requests. It is not intended to be all inclusive and complete guidance. Agencies should proactively work together to address VTL §1194 issues unique to the local circumstances.

It is attached in it's entirety.

11-01.pdf

[antiquefirelt 994]

I know our State has similar rules allowing medics to do LE draws. our depratment took a stance that we'll not allow on duty personnel to conduct blood draws for anything but medical reasons. Our basic premise is that we do not want of personnel viewed as agent of LE, as out in the street we deal with criminals frequently, and for the most part they still see us a there to help. Upsetting that image does not bode well for walking into an apartment with no PD presence where someone you've helped convict is there. Not that we don't want to keep criminals off the streets, but it becomes a safety issue. We're the good guys to everyone right now, and with no sidearms, I'd prefer to keep it that way.