NYPD rescues two West Point cadets

[dadbo46 50]

Two cadets from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point who had gotten lost and disoriented on a training mission were rescued from Storm King Mountain in Orange County by a New York City police helicopter unit that braved darkness, high winds and sub-zero temperatures to bring them down.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110220/NEWS01/102200383/NYPD-rescues-two-West-Point-cadets

Edited February 21, 2011 by xfirefighter484x
Fixed Hyperlink

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

Two cadets from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point who had gotten lost and disoriented on a training mission were rescued from Storm King Mountain in Orange County by a New York City police helicopter unit that braved darkness, high winds and sub-zero temperatures to bring them down.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110220/NEWS01/102200383/NYPD-rescues-two-West-Point-cadets

Great grab by our brothers in blue. When no one else would answer the call, these guys got the job done!

Question for anyone who is in the know, besides NYPD and the USCG do any other choppers have hoist capabilities in our area?

[JScott128 41]

Great grab by our brothers in blue. When no one else would answer the call, these guys got the job done!

Question for anyone who is in the know, besides NYPD and the USCG do any other choppers have hoist capabilities in our area?

Approximately 2007, NJSP added a hoist to one of their S-76's. I remember listening to a pursuit and bailout in the Meadowlands near Giant stadium where the suspect and the cops had to get hoisted out, but NJSP didn't have the capability and NYPD was called. Wasn't long after that when NJSP got a hoist. Since they've had the hoist, you will see news releases every once in a while about NJSP using it to rescue lost hikers. NJSP is replacing their helicopters, hopefully the new ones have the capability.

Scott

[Tanker 10eng 140]

Great job NYPD...

having worked above Camp Smith and across from West Point, where do all the Military helicopters come from ?? While working in Cold Spring, Army helo's were always around, so where were they for this need ? Where are they based out of....

[38ff 250]

For Cadet Summer Training, the NYNG supports West Point/Camp Smith (where the Air Assualt School is run) from Aviation Units outside of Albany doing their 2 weeks of AT. I had a buddy who I went to school with who was a Company Commmander of one of the lift units who had no trouble getting pilots to support that mission. There are no birds based out of Camp Smith.

At Stewart Air Base, there is a small Aviation Unit that is organic to West Point, where they have a handful of birds based. Last I heard, they were one of the very few Army units left flying UH-1's.

[PEMO3 523]

The NYPD aviation unit deserves a big pat on the back for this job. They go where others dare not go and fly when others will not fly. Aside from the USCG they are the only unit that I have seen put up in conditions like last night. Interestingly enough they will tell you they are just doing their job.

[v85 212]

What about State Police Lifeguard helicopters, are they set up for rescue as well? I heard they were, but I'm not sure

[FDNY 10-75 640]

What about State Police Lifeguard helicopters, are they set up for rescue as well? I heard they were, but I'm not sure

They are up here (Albany area) at least...

[xfirefighter484x 234]

They are up here (Albany area) at least...

We have at least one NYSP Lifeguard Unit down here out of Stewart Air Base (LG 17 or 18), and, whenever we require a helicopter rescue (aside from standard medivac function) in our area, it requires 2 choppers, one to remove victims, the other for all other associated functions. One chopper is set up as the 'rescue' chopper, for removal of the victim, the other is set up to package and txp the victim.

[Guest Choking Victim]

Wow, the NYPD will go anywhere, anytime. For decades those men have set their fears aside in order to get the job done. Well played!

Where was the Westchester County bird? That thing is fairly new, has a hoist and is a heck of a lot closer than NYPD.

[NWFDMedic 58]

We have at least one NYSP Lifeguard Unit down here out of Stewart Air Base (LG 17 or 18), and, whenever we require a helicopter rescue (aside from standard medivac function) in our area, it requires 2 choppers, one to remove victims, the other for all other associated functions. One chopper is set up as the 'rescue' chopper, for removal of the victim, the other is set up to package and txp the victim.

To clarify Nate's post, it is not that one NYSP helicopter is solely rescue and the other medevac. The ships have to be rigged for the mission that it is intended. Our newest flight medics were actually doing hoist training just last week.

[NJMedic 96]

Great grab by our brothers in blue. When no one else would answer the call, these guys got the job done!

Question for anyone who is in the know, besides NYPD and the USCG do any other choppers have hoist capabilities in our area?

New Jersey State Polie, but not all aircraft., 106th Rescue Wing on Long Island

Edited February 21, 2011 by NJMedic

[ckroll 101]

Why did this happen? OK, obviously because the cadet's ropes did not reach the ground. Anyone competent to rappel knows not to rappel down farther than one can free climb back up with ascenders. If I had gotten myself in that position with my high angle rescue team, I swear they would have left me there.

Much faster, cheaper, and infinitely safer would have been to lower the cadets 2 pairs of ascenders or have one rescuer rappel down, give them a 10 minute lesson and assist them ascending back up. Or drop them a rope that reached a point of safety and switch over? Unless there is more to the story than has been printed [and that's never happened] it appears that vast expense and unreasonable risk were assumed for a situation that had faster, easier, safer solutions.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Hard to see video of the rescue, but the audio is pretty good:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/02/20/2011-02-20_west_point_cadets_saved_in_daring_rescue.html

[Guest Choking Victim]

Why did this happen? OK, obviously because the cadet's ropes did not reach the ground. Anyone competent to rappel knows not to rappel down farther than one can free climb back up with ascenders. If I had gotten myself in that position with my high angle rescue team, I swear they would have left me there.

Much faster, cheaper, and infinitely safer would have been to lower the cadets 2 pairs of ascenders or have one rescuer rappel down, give them a 10 minute lesson and assist them ascending back up. Or drop them a rope that reached a point of safety and switch over? Unless there is more to the story than has been printed [and that's never happened] it appears that vast expense and unreasonable risk were assumed for a situation that had faster, easier, safer solutions.

Did you happen to actually read any of the news articles? Rescuers were "unable" to reach the two due to the harshness of the terrain, the severe weather and time of night. On top of that they didn't have their exact location. It was triangulated via their cell but it wasn't pinpoint.

Furthermore, I'd like to see you or anyone else attempt to ascend a rope using ascenders after being exposed to sub freezing temps and high winds for close to 8 hours. Hypothermia?

[ckroll 101]

Did you happen to actually read any of the news articles? Rescuers were "unable" to reach the two due to the harshness of the terrain, the severe weather and time of night. On top of that they didn't have their exact location. It was triangulated via their cell but it wasn't pinpoint.

Furthermore, I'd like to see you or anyone else attempt to ascend a rope using ascenders after being exposed to sub freezing temps and high winds for close to 8 hours. Hypothermia?

Yes, I read a news article. Severe weather and time of night were two of the reasons that any option other than helicopter made sense to me. If they rappelled down, look for a rope tied to a tree and see if there's weight on it. I'd look there.

Yes, I can ascend in sub freezing temperatures, it's not rocket science. These are West Point cadets, no? I wouldn't expect a weekend hiker to do it, but ability to function after 8 hours in harsh conditions seems reasonable for a warrior in training.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Yes, I read a news article. Severe weather and time of night were two of the reasons that any option other than helicopter made sense to me. If they rappelled down, look for a rope tied to a tree and see if there's weight on it. I'd look there.

Yes, I can ascend in sub freezing temperatures, it's not rocket science. These are West Point cadets, no? I wouldn't expect a weekend hiker to do it, but ability to function after 8 hours in harsh conditions seems reasonable for a warrior in training.

Why are you being so harsh in your judgments? The incident happened, the "warriors in training" needed help, and they got it from Brothers-in-Arms, the NYPD aviation unit.

Why not just be thankful that it was a successful rescue, and everybody is okay?

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

Yes, I read a news article. Severe weather and time of night were two of the reasons that any option other than helicopter made sense to me. If they rappelled down, look for a rope tied to a tree and see if there's weight on it. I'd look there.

Yes, I can ascend in sub freezing temperatures, it's not rocket science. These are West Point cadets, no? I wouldn't expect a weekend hiker to do it, but ability to function after 8 hours in harsh conditions seems reasonable for a warrior in training.

So what you're basically saying is that these 2 cadets should have self rescued after being exposed to severe hypothermia for an extended period of time?

If you really have any high angle experience you'd know just how physically taxing rope ascension is. With the onset of hypothermia you lose much of your strength, manual dexterity and your mental capacity begins to diminish. You're the ONLY person I know that can operate after prolonged exposure to such conditions.

What do you do at a working job with people trapped? Do you shout instuctions to them from the street on how they should get off the fire floor because you're afraid you'll get burned?

Gotta love the Internetz lol

[EJS1810 7]

Getting back on topic, How did they secure the victims? I am assuming a "horse collar" would slip over their heads and under their arms. Ho do they secure it so the vic dosent slip out?

[ckroll 101]

Why are you being so harsh in your judgments? The incident happened, the "warriors in training" needed help, and they got it from Brothers-in-Arms, the NYPD aviation unit.

Why not just be thankful that it was a successful rescue, and everybody is okay?

I am thankful everyone is OK. 'Just' being thankful isn't sufficient for those of us in emergency services. If the helicopter was in fact operating 20 feet from a rock face in high wind and dark, it was nothing short of a miracle that the rescue was successful. When we ask brothers and sisters in arms to risk their lives, we should do so knowing that all other options have been exhausted.

It sounds like it was a spectacular rescue. The question is was it a necessary rescue?

[helicopper 1,050]

Wow, the NYPD will go anywhere, anytime. For decades those men have set their fears aside in order to get the job done. Well played!

Where was the Westchester County bird? That thing is fairly new, has a hoist and is a heck of a lot closer than NYPD.

The Westchester County helicopter was requested for illumination but declined the mission because of wind conditions. The Bell 407 is a great helicopter but with the wind (40+ knots) coming over a ridgeline it was not a good environment for a light helicopter like that to attempt a rescue. State Police helicopters (based less than 5 miles away at Stewart) are also hoist equipped and they have three different airframes to choose from, Bell 407 (not a good choice), Bell 430 (twin engine medium duty aircraft), and a Huey (which may or may not be hoist equipped).

The NYPD Air-Sea Rescue aircraft will go virtually anywhere because of their agreement with the US Coast Guard and capabilities of their personnel an aircraft.

To clarify Nate's post, it is not that one NYSP helicopter is solely rescue and the other medevac. The ships have to be rigged for the mission that it is intended. Our newest flight medics were actually doing hoist training just last week.

I'm not sure what you mean by "rigged for the mission intended" but the NYSP aircraft do have hoist capabilities. It is interesting that they were just doing hoist training last week but didn't complete this mission. There must have been some reason for that which we're not aware of.

Getting back on topic, How did they secure the victims? I am assuming a "horse collar" would slip over their heads and under their arms. Ho do they secure it so the vic dosent slip out?

According to the NYPD, they used a horse collar for the two cadets and the ESU member that was lowered to them wears a hoist/rappel harness. The collar cinches around the victim so it is very difficult to slip out. It sounds like the State Police were there and provided illumination for the NYPD.

The weather at Stewart Airport just a few miles north of the incident had sustained winds of 15-25 knots with gusts to 35-45 knots so it was absolutely an incredible feat to hover at the mountain where winds are notoriously faster and more turbulent. Kudos to the NYPD, this was a rescue that not alot of other agencies could have successfully pulled off.

Why this was done and a ground rescue was not performed - the NYPD rescued these recruits after midnight, more than six hours after they became trapped on the cliff and after other measures failed or were deemed too risky to attempt. Conditions were bad and the use of a helicopter was determined to be the best option to expeditiously resolve the incident.

The NYPD doesn't just "do" these types of rescues. They (management, pilot and crew, ESU members) measure the potential risk, the availability of other options, and the capabilities of crew and equipment. After that risk assessment the hoist rescue was chosen as the option of choice. WIth that said, I'm satisfied that it was the best option given the circumstances.

Finally, where does it say that these cadets were rappelling or were attached to ropes? It says they were "separated from their squad" during a training exercise. There's no mention of ropes at all.

[helicopper 1,050]

New Jersey State Polie, but not all aircraft., 106th Rescue Wing on Long Island

The New York National Guard unit's are not 24/7 operations.

[helicopper 1,050]

I am thankful everyone is OK. 'Just' being thankful isn't sufficient for those of us in emergency services. If the helicopter was in fact operating 20 feet from a rock face in high wind and dark, it was nothing short of a miracle that the rescue was successful. When we ask brothers and sisters in arms to risk their lives, we should do so knowing that all other options have been exhausted.

It sounds like it was a spectacular rescue. The question is was it a necessary rescue?

It was not a "miracle". It is a testimony to the training of the NYPD crews and the deployment of the right equipment to do the job.

We train to operate in the dark, we train to operate in confined areas, we train to operate in adverse conditions and the NYPD does all that and MORE.

As I said in my earlier post, this rescue was performed after a risk assessment determined it was feasible and that other options were not immediately available.

Considering that the cadets were admitted for the treatment of hypothermia, I'd say it was necessary. Besides, the US Army, the State Police, the NYPD, and others determined that it was necessary at the time so that's good enough for me.

[PEMO3 523]

Chris, I think this is where they are getting the info on ropes and rappelling from:

"The two freshman cadets who had gone to practice rappelling on Storm King Mountain got stuck on a tiny ledge about 6 p.m. on Saturday, West Point officials said."

In a print article in the NY Post it stated that they tied themselves to shrubs to prevent being blown off the rock face. Either way accidents happen and everything turned out for the best.

[ny10570 745]

Roll, I like your thought process, but you're missing some key facts. These are warriors in training. However these cadets have not been through extreme exposure training like that of the SEALs, at least not yet they were Freshman. They were dressed lightly as this was supposed to an afternoon of physical exertion. They were stuck exposed to the elements for at least 7 1/2 hours. None of the articles mention when their day started, but the FD got on scene at 6:30 and aviation was there at 2am. The two were smart enough to tie off on a ledge so they weren't just hanging there, but they were exposed to freezing temps and high winds for hours. An experienced soldier would have a hard time functioning at that point. An 18 y/o just out of H.S. would absolutely be hypothermic, have zero dexterity and be unable to follow simple commands.

To me this eliminates climbing back up with them unless its truly a last resort. Going down, definitely more viable, but how far are we talking? If none of my ropes can make it top to bottom I do not want to be engineering an anchor on an 18" ledge that I'm sharing with two hypothermic and potentially AMS cadets. If aviation feels they can perform the grab, have at it. If not, then we can resort to climbing.

Here's the NY Times article with interviews from the flight crew.

Edited February 21, 2011 by ny10570

[helicopper 1,050]

Chris, I think this is where they are getting the info on ropes and rappelling from:

"The two freshman cadets who had gone to practice rappelling on Storm King Mountain got stuck on a tiny ledge about 6 p.m. on Saturday, West Point officials said."

In a print article in the NY Post it stated that they tied themselves to shrubs to prevent being blown off the rock face. Either way accidents happen and everything turned out for the best.

Thanks, I read most of the stories but missed the Post.

[JetPhoto 626]

This incident started about 17:30, West Point attempted to locate and rescue the cadets about 19:00 they requested the Cornwall FD with their rope rescue team to assist. At about 19:30 Cornwall requested the availability of 2 choppers 1 for a hoist mission and one for transport and recon. Both declined due to strong winds (still about 30 MPH gust at ground level) This area also funnels winds through the mountains so I can't imagine it being easy to fly in. Around midnight all rope rescue teams in Orange County were placed on standby and again a check of helicopters was made. The teams were then requested to respond to West Point to assist I know Port Jervis responded and another department from western O.C. responded.

This was the second rescue in this area in a week. The last one was about a mile or 2 from this one.

[v85 212]

It is interesting that they were just doing hoist training last week but didn't complete this mission. There must have been some reason for that which we're not aware of.

I heard that SP declined to fly due to weather. I was not aware they were even providing illumination.

Edited February 21, 2011 by v85

[ny10570 745]

Like Chris said, different airframes have different capabilities. While the pilot may have declined hovering his bird 20 ft from a cliff face in high wind gusts, it does not necessarily mean they're unable to fly. Just unable to fly that particular mission.

[bad box 371]

Wow, the NYPD will go anywhere, anytime. For decades those men have set their fears aside in order to get the job done. Well played!

Where was the Westchester County bird? That thing is fairly new, has a hoist and is a heck of a lot closer than NYPD.

That same evening, there was a fifth alarm in Brooklyn. The 'Air Recon Chief' was unable to respond because the NYPD stated they were not flying due to the weather. I'm curious why they were able to fly up to Orange County if they couldn't fly in Brooklyn (where they are based)?