New Rochelle 2/14/2011 Church Fire Discussion

[LTNRFD 266]

Can a New Rochelle Brother explain the alarm order....The I.A. states 2nd alarm on arrival, and 5th alarm with fire showing through the roof. Was this a progressive alarm increase, or were all NRFD units committed upon the 2nd, and as M.A. Companies began arriving in the city, were they special called to the scene; did this constitute technically a 3rd and 4th alarm? As NRFD spare units activated were they treated as an alarm increase?

Just curious.

Looks like a tough night, the fire commanders and firefighters had their hands full from the beginning; keep in mind NRFD rolls with only two firefighters and an officer, or three firefighters (or has that changed) and from the company officers, chauffers, firefighters to 2302 to 2301 I'm sure their full professional experience was called into play in making some very important choices to prevent this fire from becoming a conflagration in the 2-3 exposures. Is it true there was a water company issue on the other side of the city? And you guys managed to get big water on a big fire, let's here it for straight tip streams...ALL of Westchester should take a look....

Congratulations to the FD's involved, with an apparent lack of serious injuries....sorry to the Church members, I'm sure there are many broken faith-tested souls out there today. May they find Peace with the Lord after this test.

In re: to the 5th alarm. 2301 notified 60-control that he was declaring a 5th alarm due to the apparatus that was on the scene. There was no additional apparatus dispatched at that time. It doesn't sound like there was a 1-2-3-4-5 alarm progression of dispatched apparatus. There was a second alarm called on arrival. Very soon after the second alarm a request for 1 and 1 to the scene with a TL requested for the truck.

re: water. Around 4:30 AM there was a report of water entering houses on the top end of Webster Ave. Just south of the Twin Lakes. I believe this is one of the major water main entry areas into N.R. Covering companies dispatched to that location found a large water main break in the middle of the road. Later there was a second water main break located on Webster south of the original break.

[ChiefGGG 4]

Good questions. Re the water problem. I stopped by the scene today and found out that there were two major water leaks in the nortwest section of the city. They both were in a 24 inch main, Both located on Webster Ave. One was near the Rosedale Nursery and the other near the the Hutchinson River Pkwy Wester Ave. northbound exit. Webster Ave was closed at both locations. I also heard that the NRFD asked for increased water capacity and pressure at the incident. This might have caused undue stress on those sections of pipe. Boy just what u don't need in a incident like that. Great job by all.

Edited February 14, 2011 by ChiefGGG

[Guest semperfire]

Well being the officer of Ladder 12. Reason you didn't see the stick up is because we just bedded it on order to reposition. Fire was beating down on the rig and we were in the collapse zone.

[helicopper 1,050]

Just to clarify, the IA is a synopsis of the job not in any way a chronological accounting as you sometimes see.

I'm glad the subject of the water main break(s) came up. Can someone from NR advise if that caused any issues on the fireground?

It was a long night for the NRFD and I'm glad nobody was hurt battling this.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Just to clarify, the IA is a synopsis of the job not in any way a chronological accounting as you sometimes see.

Roger that, I wasn't going down that road Brother, just curious to see what may have been transmitted along the way. Bottom line is they got who they needed to the scene....

[wraftery 1,275]

Videos and pics show that even early-on in this job, apparatus was positioned outside the Possible Collapse Zone. Red danger tape idicated the Zone (Yellow tape is for civilians, red tape is an exclusion area for us).

One pic shows a FF with a transit monitoring the plumb of the church wall.

We can all take a lesson from NRFD. Good work,bruthas!

[JBE 328]

In that video - am I hearing correctly that a woman keeps saying "this is a sign?" LOL

THE APOCALYPSE IS AT HAND!!!!!

Seriously, Churches go either one of two ways. Either you get in and knock it down quick, or it's surround and drown. Looks like they had the chips stacked against em before they went out the door.

[Remember585 815]

I'm not at work so I can't look this up and verify it, but here's what I recall from memory... (NRFD guys please feel free to correct me)

Initial was probably the usual 3 & 2: E21, E22, E24, TL11, L12, 2302

10-75 would be E23, 30A1, 2301

2nd Alarm would be E25, L13, MSU3 with a backfill of 1 & 1 to Station 1 (Pelham & Pelham Manor) and 1 & 1 to Station 3 (Greenville & White Plains)

3rd Alarm would be another 1 & 1 with an additional backfill (Fairview & Hartsdale)

4th Alarm would be another 1 & 1?

5th Alarm would be another 1 & 1?

I believe NRFD had 2301, 2302, 2303, E18, E21, E22, E23, E24, E25, TL11, L12, L13, L14, R4, U91, MSU3 on scene.

Greenville E150, Town of Mamaroneck E36, Larchmont TL7, White Plains TL6 on location.

Pelham Manor E1, Pelham L2, Fairview E174, Hartsdale L46 covering several other runs.

Eastchester normally is involved early on, but last I knew TL17 is OOS. Again, if I am wrong, let me know.

I think Larchmont's TL7 was special called to the scene, which IMHO is a smart move. If you're going to prolonged master streams, Towers are much safer than straight sticks. (From what I recall in training with Lt. Mike Wilbur, FDNY)

It sucks that a historic building, especially a church, had to burn down like this. At least all of the brothers there went home safe at the end of the shift.

Good job NRFD.

[PEMO3 523]

On a side note, with so many units operating on the scene was the WCDES Field Comm requested,dispatched or used for this job?

[rfdu39 89]

Around 10 am Engine 174 was at Station 3 on North Ave.

[helicopper 1,050]

On a side note, with so many units operating on the scene was the WCDES Field Comm requested,dispatched or used for this job?

No need, there was already a coffee maker on-scene and D&D up the street opened at 0500.

[hudson144 150]

Just out of curiosity, what was done in terms of rehab? Any rehab units assigned to the job?

I got called around 4 A.M. but advised them I was low on Mustard and Ketchup! Couldn't take it in. lol

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Eastchester normally is involved early on, but last I knew TL17 is OOS. Again, if I am wrong, let me know.

Good job NRFD.

John, I believe you are correct about this. I've heard that EFD Station 5 is closed down for repairs to the apparatus floor. The units are supposedly located in temporary housing, and at that location the ALF/LTI TL-17 does not fit in the temporary quarters; so they have the 100 ft. spare Seagrave straight stick in service up there. I also heard as a result of this, Greenville L-4 is on auto-response to the Garth Rd. area....

[FFBlaser 24]

Quick Questioon?

How often do you guys train master stream operations?

After seeing the pictures and reading about the conditions on scene I am curious as to how often you guys train with those type of devices, we have several places of worship within our first due and in our MA district and I have been considering stepping up the amount of training we do with master streams...

If anyone can elaborate.

[PEMO3 523]

No need, there was already a coffee maker on-scene and D&D up the street opened at 0500.

Chris, only reason I asked was I heard D&D was of no use. Already full of cops.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I got called around 4 A.M. but advised them I was low on Mustard and Ketchup! Couldn't take it in. lol

Make sure you restock before the next big one!

[791075 34]

Quick Questioon?

How often do you guys train master stream operations?

After seeing the pictures and reading about the conditions on scene I am curious as to how often you guys train with those type of devices, we have several places of worship within our first due and in our MA district and I have been considering stepping up the amount of training we do with master streams...

If anyone can elaborate.

In general most of the co's train on master streams during the summer and fall at least a few times and sometimes with other companys and/or stations. Edited February 15, 2011 by 791075

[Bnechis 3,961]

Just out of curiosity, what was done in terms of rehab? Any rehab units assigned to the job?

Coffee, Hot Cocco, water gatoraid & donuts brought to the scene. New Rock opened up around 6am for rest rooms. EMS on standby...what more do you need.

I'm glad the subject of the water main break(s) came up. Can someone from NR advise if that caused any issues on the fireground?

We did not notice any issue from that. Bigger issue is Water comoany testified this fall infront of the Public Service Commission that they were reducing bressure with a new pump system, but volume would increase and we would have all the water we could eever need. Their pumps were at 100% and we needed more. At 100% they started to fail water mains. Most of the system is past its life expectancy and they have not done any major replacements in 40 years.

I believe NRFD had 2301, 2302, 2303, E18, E21, E22, E23, E24, E25, TL11, L12, L13, L14, R4, U91, MSU3 on scene.

Add 2302-1 (covering city), 2302-3, 2302-4, 2303, 2305, 2306, 2309 and 23010

On a side note, with so many units operating on the scene was the WCDES Field Comm requested,dispatched or used for this job?

Unless it could bring more water it was not needed

No need, there was already a coffee maker on-scene and D&D up the street opened at 0500.

Both D&D plus Twin Donut are 24 hour.

I got called around 4 A.M. but advised them I was low on Mustard and Ketchup! Couldn't take it in. lol

We could have used you anyway.

[Bnechis 3,961]

How often do you guys train master stream operations?

In general most of the co's train on master streams during the summer and fall at least a few times and sometimes with other companys and/or stations.

Generally we use them in training more for the pump operator and the reduced clean up of not stretching lots of lines.

[stvrap79 8]

Another decent video of the fire.. Just try to ignore the commentary lol

[x635 4,066]

Looks like another great job by NRFD!

If anyone has a great shot of NRFD at work at this fire and would like to submit it to be considered for the "Featured Photo" on http://www.emtbravo.com , please email it to me at:

seth@emtbravo.com

Thanks!

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Looks like another great job by NRFD!

If anyone has a great shot of NRFD at work at this fire and would like to submit it to be considered for the "Featured Photo" on http://www.emtbravo.com , please email it to me at:

seth@emtbravo.com

Thanks!

Can you embed the video onto the dot.com homepage?

[sfrd18 360]

Wow, that was some fire! Awesome work NRFD!

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Coffee, Hot Cocco, water gatoraid & donuts brought to the scene. New Rock opened up around 6am for rest rooms. EMS on standby...what more do you need.

CO monitoring, heated enclosed environment (tent), who knows...

[SteveOFD 176]

I found some awesome video from a link at Firehouse.com.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Awesome video! Amazing job by NRFD and all the other departments that worked the fire.

[Bnechis 3,961]

CO monitoring, heated enclosed environment (tent), who knows...

NR EMS has the ability to do CO Monitoring and if a member needs medical evaluation it is available, but we dont consider CO monitoring needed for every FIREFIGHTER going thru "rehab".

If it was cold we will make arraingments for warming (in a building or we have heated tents.) It was available and not one member was interested in it.

[bad box 371]

And you guys managed to get big water on a big fire, let's here it for straight tip streams...ALL of Westchester should take a look....

Congratulations to the FD's involved, with an apparent lack of serious injuries....sorry to the Church members, I'm sure there are many broken faith-tested souls out there today. May they find Peace with the Lord after this test.

I agree 'efdcapt'. Fog tips are fine for haz mat decon, automobile fires, brush & trash fires. BUT, when you need to get big water via master streams to the seat of the fire, or you're making a push down a hallway ... the smooth bore is the only way to go. BTW, tower ladder master streams are extremely effective when operated up into the top floor windows from below. This method will expose and extinguish fire in attic's and cocklofts while not driving fire laterally throughout the open cockloft area.

Edited February 16, 2011 by bad box

[PEMO3 523]

NR EMS has the ability to do CO Monitoring and if a member needs medical evaluation it is available, but we dont consider CO monitoring needed for every FIREFIGHTER going thru "rehab".

If it was cold we will make arraingments for warming (in a building or we have heated tents.) It was available and not one member was interested in it.

Bnechis, I could be wrong but my read on PFDRes47cue's post was if there was CO monitoring for the air quality inside heated enclosed environment or tents not the CO monitoring of firefighters operating on site.

[x129K 1,393]

Bnechis, I could be wrong but my read on PFDRes47cue's post was if there was CO monitoring for the air quality inside heated enclosed environment or tents not the CO monitoring of firefighters operating on site.

NO I am sure he meant CO monitoring of the members...every one wants to get there paws on a peice of the job...

While I can see the merits of rehab...we HAVE to draw a line...

No wonder firefighter savoid it at all costs....onceyou get there, you are stripped of you pack,coat, etc...people use equipment they usually dont know how to use, and then you are STUCK there because "they say so"...even though they read your blood pressure wrong! There is a reason they call it EMS Prison.

Save the money for water and Gatorade...hand me one while I change my bottle, then get out of the way and let the firemen DO THEIR JOBS.