FDNY goin' to work...VIDEO

[efdcapt115 1,511]

2/2/11..Box 812: Bn 37, S252, E277, E233, L112, L176...555 Wilson Avenue..The Borough of Fire...

youtube credit: ellokito100

If you look close you can see the hose team's long stretch, emphasizing the importance of the MPO AND the Control Man! lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFVnxpcA7DI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5aOttiSuUw&feature=player_embedded

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Texbook, The Best !

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Texbook, The Best !

It's nice for the trucks to not have to maneuver because of overhead wires, no?

Message to Con Edison in Westchester, pull your lines underground!!!!

[thebreeze 194]

This is not text book, the engine is facing the wrong way, forcing the men to stretch around the rig, the truck and engine are nosed into one another, if the engine chauffeur had a bad hydrant he is now screwed and either has to back stretch 3 1/2" by hand to another hydrant or be supplied, and as far as the few guys you see RUNNING, slow down, act like you've done this before, can't help anyone if you break your back slipping on ice. Aside from that, good aerial placement, and this really isn't a long stretch at all, 5 lengths maybe 6 for good luck. Every stretch is harder without that fifth man though, 2nd due engine comes into play huge here, especially with the hassle of stretching around the rig.

[Alpinerunner 61]

This is not text book, the engine is facing the wrong way, forcing the men to stretch around the rig, the truck and engine are nosed into one another, if the engine chauffeur had a bad hydrant he is now screwed and either has to back stretch 3 1/2" by hand to another hydrant or be supplied, and as far as the few guys you see RUNNING, slow down, act like you've done this before, can't help anyone if you break your back slipping on ice. Aside from that, good aerial placement, and this really isn't a long stretch at all, 5 lengths maybe 6 for good luck. Every stretch is harder without that fifth man though, 2nd due engine comes into play huge here, especially with the hassle of stretching around the rig.

What is the alternative in terms of engine placement? 3 pt turn? I can't see the detail of the lay from my phone, but isn't there a discharge on the officer's side if that was a concern?

Also, what is the point of laying on the horn once the trucks pull up? Is it to help alert the residents that there is a fire?

[thebreeze 194]

What is the alternative in terms of engine placement? 3 pt turn? I can't see the detail of the lay from my phone, but isn't there a discharge on the officer's side if that was a concern?

Also, what is the point of laying on the horn once the trucks pull up? Is it to help alert the residents that there is a fire?

The engine was there prior to the trucks arrival, since the preferable method for stretching is straight off the back towards the fire building the engine chauffeur should pull past the building, someone once said "hydrants before the building don't exist", meaning the chauffeur should notice them but only consider them as a last option, often times the chauffeur sees the fire, gets tunnel vision and thinks he has to take the first hydrant he sees. It's always preferable to pull up to the building with the back step even with the door to the building, then once the men begin the stretch the chauffeur can fly to the next hydrant.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

The engine was there prior to the trucks arrival, since the preferable method for stretching is straight off the back towards the fire building the engine chauffeur should pull past the building, someone once said "hydrants before the building don't exist", meaning the chauffeur should notice them but only consider them as a last option, often times the chauffeur sees the fire, gets tunnel vision and thinks he has to take the first hydrant he sees. It's always preferable to pull up to the building with the back step even with the door to the building, then once the men begin the stretch the chauffeur can fly to the next hydrant.

You can see everything thats going on in the street from this video ??? your good, will you be my Chief !

[thebreeze 194]

Everything I said can be seen clearly in this video, the engine is parked with the men out of the rig prior to the trucks arrival, as far as hydrants, its NYC, you won't be searching too long for another one if you do the right thing and don't get locked into your tunnel vision, what else can't be seen from the video?

[Alpinerunner 61]

The engine was there prior to the trucks arrival, since the preferable method for stretching is straight off the back towards the fire building the engine chauffeur should pull past the building, someone once said "hydrants before the building don't exist", meaning the chauffeur should notice them but only consider them as a last option, often times the chauffeur sees the fire, gets tunnel vision and thinks he has to take the first hydrant he sees. It's always preferable to pull up to the building with the back step even with the door to the building, then once the men begin the stretch the chauffeur can fly to the next hydrant.

So it's SOP for FDNY to reverse lay? i.e. pull upto the fire building, pull 3"(?) out of the back in front of the door, and lay in to the hydrant, and make a short hydrant connection?

Second question, the high-rise packs on the side of the engine, that gets hooked up to the end of the lay and goes into the building? Or does the supply hose go to the fire floor? (assuming there is no standpipe).

Not criticizing, just curious because most of us work with crosslays.

[thebreeze 194]

So it's SOP for FDNY to reverse lay? i.e. pull upto the fire building, pull 3"(?) out of the back in front of the door, and lay in to the hydrant, and make a short hydrant connection?

Second question, the high-rise packs on the side of the engine, that gets hooked up to the end of the lay and goes into the building? Or does the supply hose go to the fire floor? (assuming there is no standpipe).

Not criticizing, just curious because most of us work with crosslays.

SOP is for the engine to stop with the back of the rig parallel to the entrance to the fire building, the men then stretch 1 3/4" or 2 1/2" into the building depending on the size and nature of the fire. The chauffeur then drives to the hydrant and connects or if this is not possible (because a truck blocked him out) he can be supplied or stretch 3 1/2" back to a previous hydrant. FDNY uses dead lays, nothing is preconnected, it is up to the control man to determine how much hose is needed, pull it, break the line, give it to the chauffeur and provide the chauffeur with the details of the stretch. The high rise packs are for use in high rise buildings with standpipe systems. These standpipe systems are supplied by either a gravity tank on the roof or a main fed pump, all of these systems can also be supplemented by an engine streching 3 1/2" hose to the siamese connection.

[M' Ave 1,466]

You can see everything thats going on in the street from this video ??? your good, will you be my Chief !

He's correct, in so far as trying not to take a hydrant before the fire building. However, this is more of a preferential move rather than rule of law. It's one more step, having to stretch around the rig and towards the fire building. However, this building was pretty close to the corner and it looks like the next hydrant was across the perpendicular cross street. You're better off stretching around the rig than trying to stretch a line across a two way street and an intersection.

If this were a building or area that guys responded to a lot, the chauffeur might know to respond up the block from the other direction. However, we so many streets and hydrants, it's unlikely that you'll have the luxury of that knowledge. Who know's, might be a detailed ECC from another borough, or maybe that was typically that engines 2nd due area.

All in all, it does look like the job went well in a pretty text book fashion. Those dopes running looked a little silly, but the engine was bringing the line in in a steady professional manner. This was a bread and butter kinda fire. It was already vented, you didn't have to go hunting for the seat and the door couldn't have taken too long to force. The roof was laddered within a minute of the trucks arrival. There was water on the fire and the main body of fire was knocked down in under 3 minutes. I'm sure that there were 2 roof-men on the roof and at least one O/V had gotten up there. With a top floor fire in a building like this, the second due truck woulda sent a couple of guys to start checking the top floors of the adjoining buildings.

[grumpyff 1,159]

The guys running look to be from the truck.I've seen that in a couple of other FDNY videos on youtube.. Probably trying to get upstairs and begin the search and venting. Here is another good video from 2008, with Engine 54 showing the stretch off the rear of the engine. See a few truckies running , but the engine guys move swiftly, but with a purpose. Begins a little slow, first Engine on scene about 1:30 into the video. Video credit to Dustinmharris

Edited February 5, 2011 by grumpyff

[Portsmouth OH Fire Buff 8]

Quick Question, why were they laying on the air horns?

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Quick Question, why were they laying on the air horns?

I read the L.C.O. had bubble gum stuck on the bottom of his boot...

[FirefighterJr 2]

Looks like Squad 252 was first due.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Looks like Squad 252 was first due.

Good eye there guy. I made the rundown change. Thanks.

[mfc2257 464]

They're not on the horns on purpose. Just the officer stepping on the switch as he is busy preparing to go to work.

[Posa 103 2]

The airhorn could be anything....probably a car sitting on a hydrant or in the way of a rig trying to get in position. As for the engine....I give the benefit of the doubt to the ECC,,,,,maybe he knows the block and the hydrants in the area, or the "ideal" hydrant was out of service or taking it would block out the truck....alot of variables he had to consider. Not always as easy as it looks.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Quick Question, why were they laying on the air horns?

If you watch as the video progresses, you'll see an engine arriving on the left hand side of the screen, on the other side of the intersection. I'm going to bet that was where the air horn was coming from. Probably had the fight his way into the intersection and push a car (figuratively) off the hydrant.

EFD, you are partially correct! It was Squad 252.....but they're just an engine anyway!

Edited February 5, 2011 by M' Ave

[osufire90 18]

The guys running look to be from the truck.I've seen that in a couple of other FDNY videos on youtube.. Probably trying to get upstairs and begin the search and venting. Here is another good video from 2008, with Engine 54 showing the stretch off the rear of the engine. See a few truckies running , but the engine guys move swiftly, but with a purpose. Begins a little slow, first Engine on scene about 1:30 into the video. Video credit to Dustinmharris

This is a good video. Any idea if the TL is a 75 or a 95 ft. I know FDNY operates mostly 75 footers, but I understand that there are a few 95 footers floating around.

[FirefighterJr 2]

This is a good video. Any idea if the TL is a 75 or a 95 ft. I know FDNY operates mostly 75 footers, but I understand that there are a few 95 footers floating around.

Looks like 21 Truck, so that would be a 75 footer.

[M' Ave 1,466]

This is a good video. Any idea if the TL is a 75 or a 95 ft. I know FDNY operates mostly 75 footers, but I understand that there are a few 95 footers floating around.

Edited February 5, 2011 by M' Ave

[JBE 328]

95 footers in the city are, (Off the top of my head) 9,12,14,44,51,58,107(presently operating 75 foot spare, 95 footer was wrecked in 09),117,119,121,152,161,163,172.

[bad box 371]

This is not text book, the engine is facing the wrong way, forcing the men to stretch around the rig, the truck and engine are nosed into one another, if the engine chauffeur had a bad hydrant he is now screwed and either has to back stretch 3 1/2" by hand to another hydrant or be supplied, and as far as the few guys you see RUNNING, slow down, act like you've done this before, can't help anyone if you break your back slipping on ice. Aside from that, good aerial placement, and this really isn't a long stretch at all, 5 lengths maybe 6 for good luck. Every stretch is harder without that fifth man though, 2nd due engine comes into play huge here, especially with the hassle of stretching around the rig.

Wow! Considering the fact that 252 had water out the windows and the fire knocked down within a couple of minutes of arrival, it appears that your criticism is fairly harsh and uncalled for. It appears that 252 took the hydrant that was closest to the fire building, I don't see another hydrant on the block had they passed up the one that they hooked up to. I didn't see any truckies running, it did appear that a couple of firefighters were jogging toward 252's rig (probably firefighters from the 2nd due engine coming to assist with stretching the first line). I agree that reckless running at a fire scene could cause a slip / fall incident, but there does need to be an accelerated (albeit controlled) level of movement by responding personnel due to the rapidity of fire growth coupled with the dangers of smoke, heat and toxic gases on exposed victims as well as firefighters who are operating in the fire area as well as above it.

To the Firefighters who operated at this incident, a job well done.

[Steve 78]

My opinion, Good engine placement. MVO left the front of the building open for the placement of truck companies.

Also very quick knock down of the fire. The fire was being knocked down before the roofman reached the roof. That is pretty good.

[ny10570 745]

Aside from the running knock, thebreeze wasn't trashing anyone's operations. It was not a text book fire. The engine had to stop before the building, was boxed in, and a couple of guys were moving with more haste than everyone else. It appears that the conditions present did not allow for a text book operation. They rarely do, and he was accurate in pointing that out. This is good discussion, but people get all in a tizzy over critiquing people. It should be pointed out that ideally the engine would pull past the building, because now there's room to discuss why an engine might not, what they need to do instead, and how that changes things for other responding units. Or we can just say good job, fire went out, and move on to the next video.

Edited February 6, 2011 by ny10570

[Mac8146 61]

Considering there is a few feet of snow around most NYC sidewalks and many hydrants are buried in snow I find it hard to believe the monday morning quarterbacking going on here. There are times when stopping before building to get hydrant is a good move, this street was wide enough to allow 2 aerial ladders to get the front of the fire building and place there ladders, unless you know the area the next hydrant may have been around a corner either left or right which places hose in street and that could lead to problems and delays in stretching due to engine being around corner. With the 5th man in squad this stretch was a simple text book operation probably 5 lengths of 1 3/4 and fire is done. The videos are about a minute or so long not sure if they run continous or if there is a little time lapse but in the 2 videos you see engine on hydrant line stretched, ladders in place, members going about the routine of FDNY ops and then water out fire apt windows all in a few minutes, simply put another job well done by the brothers.

[M' Ave 1,466]

The guys running look to be from the truck.I've seen that in a couple of other FDNY videos on youtube.. Probably trying to get upstairs and begin the search and venting. Here is another good video from 2008, with Engine 54 showing the stretch off the rear of the engine. See a few truckies running , but the engine guys move swiftly, but with a purpose. Begins a little slow, first Engine on scene about 1:30 into the video. Video credit to Dustinmharris

There is one thing that grabbed me about this video. It demonstrates something that is talked about a lot. Tower Ladders are F'IN SLOW! Something to note and consider when there is one assigned. They're a little more complicated to set-up and move a lot slower once in operation. With a rear-mount, both out-riggers are down and the stick can be put to the roof in well under a minutes. The TL, for all it's pluses, is slow!

[turk132 9]

There is one thing that grabbed me about this video. It demonstrates something that is talked about a lot. Tower Ladders are F'IN SLOW! Something to note and consider when there is one assigned. They're a little more complicated to set-up and move a lot slower once in operation. With a rear-mount, both out-riggers are down and the stick can be put to the roof in well under a minutes. The TL, for all it's pluses, is slow!

The old Mack 75' single axle TL's went up pretty quick.

[bad box 371]

Aside from the running knock, thebreeze wasn't trashing anyone's operations. It was not a text book fire. The engine had to stop before the building, was boxed in, and a couple of guys were moving with more haste than everyone else. It appears that the conditions present did not allow for a text book operation. They rarely do, and he was accurate in pointing that out. This is good discussion, but people get all in a tizzy over critiquing people. It should be pointed out that ideally the engine would pull past the building, because now there's room to discuss why an engine might not, what they need to do instead, and how that changes things for other responding units. Or we can just say good job, fire went out, and move on to the next video.

It doesn't appear to me that 252 stopped before the building because they "were boxed in" but rather because the hydrant they hooked up to was the last one on the block and because they needed to keep the front of the building open for the truck. It appears to me that The Brothers did what they are trained to do ... they were confronted by a situation, they sized it up, they overcame the obstacles that were presented to them and got the job done ... Quickly.