Airbag Dangers And Tactics

[PFDRes47cue 653]

After some side discussion the the cutting batteries at MVA's thread, I figured it would be beneficial to start another thread on airbags.

It has been noted that airbags and other electronics can stay active for up to 30 minutes after a battery has been disconnected. Perhaps, remove the air bag fuse. This will most likely be in the fuse box in the footwell of either the driver or front passenger compartment. This should instantly disable the airbag.

Do any departments require or practice the technique of cutting out deployed airbags? This is often a good idea and I have doe this on numerous occasions. I do not know how often or if it is possible at all, but cutting out the airbag will eliminate the risk of re deployment or further deployment.

I have also heard that car manufactures are no longer required to label airbag locations. Meaning no more SRS or Airbag stickers or embroideries. I guess, when in doubt, assume there is an airbag there!

Does anyone have experience using the airbag restraints such as the Secunet Airbag Safety Cover? Do they work? Easy to set up?

Interesting articles in regards to the changing world of airbags.

Advances in Airbag Technology

Ford's New Airbags w/ Video

Airbag Jump Belt

Edited February 1, 2011 by PFDRes47cue

[OoO 24]

The airbag restraints were discussed here recently, consensus seemed to be that they are ineffective and a bad idea.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

The airbag restraints were discussed here recently, consensus seemed to be that they are ineffective and a bad idea.

Thanks, I tried to search for the thread, but I could not find it.

[JohnnyOV 2]

While still dealing with Air bags, but switching tactics to aircraft rescue, a lot of small single / twin engine private aircraft are either installing while on the assembly line, or aftermarket, airbags that are attached to the seat belt. 80% of new private aircraft are being shipped with these systems in place (and that is just from this one company) and they are becoming ever more popular with retrofitting existing aircraft. The NTSB recently released a study recommending to installing them on all private aircraft, both new and existing.

AMsafe is one of the leading companies designing aircraft airbags for both private and commercial use.

http://www.amsafe.com/products/detail.php?id=68&type=categories - General (private) Aviation restraints

http://www.amsafe.com/products/detail.php?id=4&type=categories - Commercial restraints

http://www.amsafe.com/products/document.php?id=159&pid=68&type=business - Video of deployment

http://www.amsafe.com/images/documents/airbag_facts_ga_campaign_final_2009.swf - FAQ's

I've been trying to ascertain if each individual airbag is equipped with a sensor, or if it is one sensor for the entire plane. Either way, I'm going to send the company an email asking how to disable the device if it doesn't deploy on impact.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Do any departments require or practice the technique of cutting out deployed airbags? This is often a good idea and I have doe this on numerous occasions. I do not know how often or if it is possible at all, but cutting out the airbag will eliminate the risk of re deployment or further deployment.

Not a good idea. The issue with cutting out bags, is that the inflation gas will then blow directly onto the patient and potentially personnel.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Not a good idea. The issue with cutting out bags, is that the inflation gas will then blow directly onto the patient and potentially personnel.

That is a great point. I was not aware that there was enough gas left over to re-deploy and airbag. Or any gas at all for that matter. After removing the airbag fuse you can remove the deployed airbag with little to no risk I would imagine.

It seems that no matter how safe you are, you are never 100% in the clear in terms of safety. Airbags are dangerous things to emergency personnel.

[antiquefirelt 994]

That is a great point. I was not aware that there was enough gas left over to re-deploy and airbag. Or any gas at all for that matter. After removing the airbag fuse you can remove the deployed airbag with little to no risk I would imagine.

It seems that no matter how safe you are, you are never 100% in the clear in terms of safety. Airbags are dangerous things to emergency personnel.

Many vehicles now feature a two stage airbag system. The two stages differ in the deployment volume depending on the seat position, weight of the seated occupant and probably other factors. This means that a bag may discharge more than once in many cars. It is likely very hard for us as responders to know the extent of an airbag deployment, thus we must treat them all with extreme caution.

BTW- I'm not familiar with any vehicles that have a labelled air bag fuse or other disconnect? Do you know of any particular vehicles that feature this or perhaps a common assumption?

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Many vehicles now feature a two stage airbag system. The two stages differ in the deployment volume depending on the seat position, weight of the seated occupant and probably other factors. This means that a bag may discharge more than once in many cars. It is likely very hard for us as responders to know the extent of an airbag deployment, thus we must treat them all with extreme caution.

BTW- I'm not familiar with any vehicles that have a labelled air bag fuse or other disconnect? Do you know of any particular vehicles that feature this or perhaps a common assumption?

Nissans have them in the fuse box. This is either under the hood or in the passenger or drivers compartment. I believe most cars have these fuses. Often times, if the airbag light comes on and stays on it means the fuse is blown. Or in a worst case, the air bag is "dead." check your owners manual to double check but there should be an airbag fuse on most if not all vehicles. Not 100% sure though...

[JM15 386]

I dont see pulling fuses as being that practical... wouldn't you have to go through the fuse diagrams and figure out which one it is?

[Guest kasher]

With regards to the air bag restraints, I just cant get past the idea that it's possibly one more projectile if the bag does deploy unexpectedly and the restraint fails.

[ny10570 745]

I don't see pulling fuses as being in any way practical and have never heard it mentioned in any lecture or training session. I'm at work, so I pulled my truck's diagram, and its a regular 10 Amp fuse. No special markings or anything to indicate it being the airbag fuse. Took me 5 minutes and a flashlight to look it up and find it in an undamaged F250 without a pinned drivers legs in the way (by the way, impossible to get to the fuses with the driver's legs there. Big ol' piece of plastic panel in the way). The only thing thats works in every car most of the time is kill the ignition, strip the plastic, and know the usual suspects. Pillars, door trim, dash, seats, seatbelts, and steering wheel. As cars get lighter and more efficient they're flimsier. Luckily airbags are cheaper than structural integrity.

In the multi stage systems I've seen none leave more than 30% of their capacity behind. While thats still quite a shot, it would be into an already deployed bag with the vents already opened. I was told, and haven;t heard otherwise that once the partial charge goes off, thats it. There is no secondary trigger. They are allegedly designed to be non-functional after deploying. Since I don't hear about many of those random airbag deployments these days I'm going to put some faith in their engineering.

[fyrlt17 13]

1) Make sure the vehicle is in park

2) Make sure the ignition is off (look for smart key systems) remove smart key at least 25' from vehicle.

3) Chock the tires (Front and back)

These are the first steps in vehicle stabilization and de-energizing the capacitors on the occupant restraint systems

Once you have the vehicle stabilized you can access the battery, disconnect the negative side first and depending on the severity of the accident disconnect or cut all the wires attached to the battery negative and positive.

Remember it’s an accident; try to find the fuse box in a vehicle that’s been crashed.

The only time I can see cutting the airbags out would be for a disentanglement which usually means the victim is dead.

Don’t forget the seatbelt pretensioner

[ac316scu 31]

In all of my automotive education I've been told that the best way to disable the airbag system is to remove both the positive and negative wires from the battery and connect them together for 10 min, this allows the capacitors to drain. Pulling the fuse wont do anything.

[fyrlt17 13]

"Modern vehicles have state-of-the-art electronic electrical systems nowadays with semiconductor diodes integrated into the entire system.

Semiconductors are made from material somewhere between the ranges of conductors and nonconductors. Semiconductors, basically, are designed to do one of three things:

(1) stop the flow of electrons, (2) start the flow of electrons, or (3) control the amount of electron flow. A diode is, in effect, a one-way valve. It will conduct current in one direction and remain non conductive in the reverse direction. When current flows through the diode, it is said to be "forward biased." When current flow is blocked by the diode, it is "reverse biased." Touching battery cables together as the story goes is the reverse manner. Current will NOT flow. You will NOT drain the airbag capacitors."

from Ron Moore University of Extrication

http://www.firehouse.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-19555.html

[ny10570 745]

as fyrlt17 pointed out, capacitors will not drain back into the system. That defeats their purpose. If the positive to negative connection worked, simply leaving the ignition on after disconnecting the battery would drain those capacitors. You just have to allow them the time to naturally lose their charge. I pulled the service manuals on a couple cars I owned and the longest wait after battery disconnect was 5 minutes and one was only 90 seconds. A BMW service advisory stated all cars before 94 required 30 minutes and all cars after required 1 minute. So it seems they're becoming safer for us, but there are still many out there that would be a problem.