Long Island Fire Department Under Fire

[JetPhoto 626]

A story on tonights NY news 4 discussing how the Elmont FD uses the confederate flag as part of their department patch's.

Apparently some of the firefighters feel it racist and decided to go to the news with the story.

Just what the fire service needs more bad press.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

So change the patch if the membership is against it. Make a motion at the meeting to change the department patch, and bid out for new patches. You can get 200 patches for probably less than 3 dollars a patch.

[Alpinerunner 61]

So change the patch if the membership is against it. Make a motion at the meeting to change the department patch, and bid out for new patches. You can get 200 patches for probably less than 3 dollars a patch.

A CHANGE IN THE FIRE SERVICE?!?!?!

[FirNaTine 370]

Did they give a reason why the flag is part of their patch?

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I do not believe the image in question is from the department patch. Rather an air-brushed company logo on one rig. It depicts a skull with a helmet on with the number 3 on the shield. The skull has a stars and bars bandanna around it's neck. The logo states "Buckle Up" underneath it.

The department patch features crossed American and New York State flags. I'm sure the Elmont, N.Y. forefathers who fought in the Civil War, would vote to remove a symbol of the Confederacy from their fire apparatus, were their voices able to be heard.

[jfmuller 23]

The department patch features crossed American and New York State flags. I'm sure the Elmont, N.Y. forefathers who fought in the Civil War, would vote to remove a symbol of the Confederacy from their fire apparatus, were their voices able to be heard.

It appears in the patch as well, company patch not department.

My linkhttp://www.nassaufdrant.com/patch-gallery/p2007_sectionid/9/p2007_imageid/255

http://firecritic.com/2011/01/the-elmont-fd-in-long-island-is-under-scrutiny-for-using-the-stars-and-bars/

In a world where PC police go to far, such as removing the Indian mascots from schools that are named after Indians, I feel the confederate symbol is racially charged, and has no place on their patch or the apparatus. If the apparatus image was changed to red, white, and blue and not reminiscent of the stars and bars, I would be fine with that. I wouldn't however accept them disrespecting the American flag as bunker pants either.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Greetings all. I have been member on this site for a long time, and at the moment I am also an assistant Chief with the Elmont FD. I will not get into specifics at this point, but just wanted to say a few things.

First, the Elmont FD is in no way racist, nor is the company in question trying to incite a racist point of view. Like it or not the nickname "rebels" and the use of the confederate flag has been a somewhat popular choice of fire companies for decades. Im sure you all know of a company somewhere called the "rebels". Hell just google "fire Dept. maltese cross rebel flag sticker" and you will see a dozen designs for your helmet and other applications from many fire service stores.

Second, the company was organized in 1924, and at the time was the only company on the East End of the district, away from the other then 3 existing companies in the West all a few blocks from each other. Back in the day the competition between fire companies was probably more fierce then it is today. The other companies did not want them to be located at that end of the district and "beat" them to the fires in that part of town. They got the nickname of the rebels because they went against the grain from day 1. The nickname rebels was born for being "different" not being racist.

This all said, the flag does bring about some strong feelings from many folks, and in the end we exsist to serve the public not offend them. I will leave it at that for now.

Be safe all.

Edited January 22, 2011 by spin_the_wheel

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Heres the link to News 4 NY article about the department/flag.

L.I. Fire Dept. Logos Seem to Bear Confederate Flag

Resemblance ignites controversy in primarily black community

FULL ARTICLE: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/LI-Fire-Dept-Uses-Confederate-Flag-Logo-114340964.html

Good luck Chief, seems you have a public relations nightmare on your hands...

Edited January 21, 2011 by x635
To conform to copyright restrictions

[FFLieu 70]

I viewed the video and I have to say that this one is a real stretch. Everyone is jumping to conclusions about what "looks like" and "seems to be" a Confederate Flag. Are they the same people who insinuated that the late Joe Camel "appeared to be" phallic in design? I'm currently down South and I see lots of Confederate Flags, it's just part of the culture. There is no Confederate Flag depicted here. Just another non-story that was picked up for no good reason.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Now I'm not supporting it or condoning its use, but I would like everyone to just read the wiki and following links on the history of the flags of the Confederacy and the whole controversy of them.

http://www.usflag.org/history/confederatestarsandbars.html

http://arebelflag.net/

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate1.html

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~class/am483_97/projects/sarratt/intro.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

From the wiki, which you will read halfway down:

A rectangular variant of the battle flag used by some Confederate Army Units, now called "The Confederate Flag" or "The Confederate Battle Flag", despite its never having historically represented the CSA as a nation, has become a widely recognized symbol of the South. It is also called the "rebel", or "Dixie" flag, and is often incorrectly referred to as the "Stars and Bars" (the actual "Stars and Bars" is the First National Flag, which used an entirely different design).

Also the flag being depicted is called the "Confederate Rebel Flag" this is not the "Stars and Bars" flag which actually symbolized the C.S.A. This is a mere historical look of it.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

In case anyone was wondering about this story, the District removed the logo. The Chiefs office has had some very good dialogue with certain members of the community, we were even invited (the FD) to lead the pledge of allegiance during the Black History Month community awards ceremony this month, which we did.

Another Dept. has contacted us, they to have a company known as the "Rebels". After seeing what we went through they are removing anything that could be deemed offensive from their rig/quarters.

So some good has come from this incident.

Some lessons learned...be prepared for anything, think before you speak to the media especially if you are confronted without warning, never use the term "no comment" and have a Public Information Officer ready to release a statement as soon as possible.

Be safe all!

[JM15 386]

Thanks for the update.. Great news that you were able to work it out with the community that you serve!!

[CBX4627 114]

Like someone else said, just curious as to why some members felt the need to run to the media about this???? Guess they never heard of handling things "In house"?

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I think that, yes it does bring out strong feelings in some and could be controversial but I also feel it is a part of the fire departments history. If the department or company is against it, vote and change it then frame a badge to show the history of the company/department. This really is not aa huge deal and I think it could have been handled with a lot less commotion.

I think I remember seeing something in Katonah's HQ while taking a training course there. If I remember correctly, it was a framed flag with a swastika on it. This is a piece of history , should it be taken down? I don't think people should necessarily take offense to it...it is a part of history, a bad part of history but history nonetheless.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I don't think people should necessarily take offense to it...it is a part of history, a bad part of history but history nonetheless.

Therein lies the issue with "offensive": you cannot tell people how or what to feel, if they're offended, it's up to them to decide the recourse. I don't agree with our becoming so overly sensitive, but on the other hand, there's a lot of history of people ignoring what should be as simple as knowing right from wrong, thus we're where we are today.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Therein lies the issue with "offensive": you cannot tell people how or what to feel, if they're offended, it's up to them to decide the recourse. I don't agree with our becoming so overly sensitive, but on the other hand, there's a lot of history of people ignoring what should be as simple as knowing right from wrong, thus we're where we are today.

This is true. Good point!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I think that, yes it does bring out strong feelings in some and could be controversial but I also feel it is a part of the fire departments history. If the department or company is against it, vote and change it then frame a badge to show the history of the company/department. This really is not aa huge deal and I think it could have been handled with a lot less commotion.

I think I remember seeing something in Katonah's HQ while taking a training course there. If I remember correctly, it was a framed flag with a swastika on it. This is a piece of history , should it be taken down? I don't think people should necessarily take offense to it...it is a part of history, a bad part of history but history nonetheless.

I am curious where you saw this in KFDs HQ. I have been in their house for their parade, training, stand-by and for fun dozens of times and I can not recall what you are talking about at all.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I am curious where you saw this in KFDs HQ. I have been in their house for their parade, training, stand-by and for fun dozens of times and I can not recall what you are talking about at all.

I am not 100% positive it was in fact KFD's HQ, but for some reason it rings bell. I remember seeing it several years ago. Perhaps in the room with the poker table...I really am not sure. I've been in too many FD's in the past 5 years too remember each one. Also, I am not speaking negatively of KFD!! I think they do a great job and are a great group of people. Just trying to contributing a controversial item from memory.

[IFCO3080 26]

I am not 100% positive it was in fact KFD's HQ, but for some reason it rings bell. I remember seeing it several years ago. Perhaps in the room with the poker table...I really am not sure. I've been in too many FD's in the past 5 years too remember each one. Also, I am not speaking negatively of KFD!! I think they do a great job and are a great group of people. Just trying to contributing a controversial item from memory.

On Katonah's original flag for the fire department from 1874 it has an indian symbol that looks very close to a swastika. It is NOT a swastika it is just an indian symbol due to the high population of native americans in the area during their time. And it it in their pool room with the poker table also. This information was given to me from a Katonah member.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

On Katonah's original flag for the fire department from 1874 it has an indian symbol that looks very close to a swastika. It is NOT a swastika it is just an indian symbol due to the high population of native americans in the area during their time. And it it in their pool room with the poker table also. This information was given to me from a Katonah member.

That is correct. I spoke with a KFD member who explained it. Thanks.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

On Katonah's original flag for the fire department from 1874 it has an indian symbol that looks very close to a swastika. It is NOT a swastika it is just an indian symbol due to the high population of native americans in the area during their time. And it it in their pool room with the poker table also. This information was given to me from a Katonah member.

That is correct. I spoke with a KFD member who explained it. Thanks.