Appalled at a local restaurant's comments about 9/11 and the Freedom Tower

[JohnnyOV 2]

Last night, guys from the local FD and FD's around the county/city, went out to Finnegans Bar and Grill in Yorktown to play a game of Trivia. For those who don't know, the restaurant patrons form teams and answer questions that the bar tender has come up with for a chance to win a some prizes.

Last night, a question in the "Daily news" category was "What was the number of Police that NYC will deploy to the Freedom tower when it is finally constructed? A) 250 500 or c)700"

As soon as the question was asked, the bar tender, under his breath, but loud enough for us to hear stated "Either way, its going to make a pretty big airport." That got our attention, but rather then making a scene, we let it slide.

As soon as the answers were given out about 10 minutes later for that round, the bar tender over the mic states "The correct answer is C)700. Can't wait for our taxes to go up over this and not one of those cops will be stopping a plane.'

At that note, we closed our tabs, some guys gave the bartender a little piece of our mind and we all left. This afternoon, one the guys went back to talk to the manager, and she basically blew him off, and was completely rude about the whole situation, siding with her bartender.

Take what you want from it, but I just felt the need to share this disturbing news with guys who may have been there for 9/11 and might frequent this place... I know they have lost my buisness for good.

Edit: As an FYI: Finnegans in Yorktown is in no way related to the Finnegans in Thornwood and Armonk.The owner of the Thornwood and Armonk Finnegans is a member of Thornwood FD and is struggingly mightly to stay in business.

Edited January 20, 2011 by JohnnyOV

[joetnymedic 43]

So someone should call the manager back, state again what happened and let her know that until something is done, the word will be out to boycott the place. Then place a call to the journal news and news 12, hell you dont even have to give your name, tell them what happened and that there will be a boycott and sit back and watch what the pub does then. The media loves dirt so let them do the dirty work. Just my two cents

joe

btw if anyone wants to know how to go about this let me know as I will be more than willing to help even if it means driving to Westchester to stand with you guys. Also this post needs to be circulated around so that all the brothers and sisters see it.

Edited January 20, 2011 by joetnymedic

[PEMO3 523]

Sad part is that this bartender is not as up on the news as he makes himself out to be. The PD presences at the new Freedom Tower was reported to be NYPD resources not PAPD resources so the "airport" comment could not have been further off base. As far as his manager is concerned, whatever happened to customer service and the customer is always right. Guess not at this bar. I say B-O-Y-C-O-T-T-!-! Finnegan's Bar and Grill - either way it will make a nice parking lot.

[JohnnyOV 2]

The PD presences at the new Freedom Tower was reported to be NYPD resources not PAPD resources so the "airport" comment could not have been further off base.

His sick joke was referring to the planes crashing into the Towers... not the policing agency

either way it will make a nice parking lot.

Definitely not looking to go that route... I'm more interested in getting an apology from the owner and the bartender to all the people there last night (many of whom stood by us, and were in complete agreement with us) and keeping this peaceful. It would have been nice to get an apology today and that would ended all of this.

Edited January 20, 2011 by JohnnyOV

[joetnymedic 43]

i think an apology is due to more than just you guys and frankly the bartender should be looking for employment elsewhere

[wraftery 1,275]

The bartender and owner have a right to their opinion and to express it freely(1st Amendment)

We have a right to not patronize the place and to spread the word about them. If done correctly, that bartender won't need a mic to talk to the customers any more.

You can get them to change their business practices but did you change their mind about cops/ff? Probably not.

I'd find another bar to hang out in,

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Now what do we have here? Is it a bartender with an ax to grind.......maybe he got a speeding ticket.....maybe a dui....maybe he listens to too much talk radio....maybe he reads the post......maybe he knows guys from his generation who became cops or firemen who are now retired while he's gotta keep standing behind that bar......maybe his "retirement plan and benefits" from the bar in question doesn't quite stack up with "his buddies" who were cops or firemen.....maybe his wife ran off with a sanitation worker.....ah who cares.....there are two things that you can always find just a little further down the road; one's another saloon....but jeez....I forget what the other thing is.....

[JAD622 40]

Then place a call to the journal news and news 12, The media loves dirt so let them do the dirty work. Just my two cents

I doubt you would get the results you seek from either of these media outlets. The Emergency Services have no friends in the Journal News and News 12 these days. Unfortunately, this type of outlook towards the emergency services is becoming more prominent largely due to the media's assault on us these days. The Politicians have launched an aggressive attack on us via the media throughout this Country and it has begun to sway public opinion of us in a BIG way.

[joetnymedic 43]

Then like i said put the word out that this place is appearently anti public safety and everyone stop going there. Screw it, hit them in the pocketbook where it counts. If everyone sticks together then things can happen. Not to sound screwed up but go to our brothers bar in thornwood, I'm sure he'd appreiciate the business. All I know is I would sure let it be known not to patronize this place.

Another poster wrote the guy has his first amendment rights well you know what, when it comes down to a big slap in the face to not only public safety but to anyone involved in 9/11 then you know what the guy should have kept his trap shut. Not to wish bad things upon him but I wonder if he'd have a different attitude if he needed the help. As for News 12 and the Journal News, you get enough guys together that will either talk or stage a good old fashion picket by the place and I'll put my a** on the line and say I'd bet they'd show up. Fact is it would have to be organized. After I retired due to my Hep C and my PTSD, I worked the desk at News 12 Norwalk, I also currently program all their radios for them so that's one base covered. Plus while this place may be in Westchester, I'm sure those in the city would love to know about this incident. Maybe I'm just bitter as the OP said all that was needed was an apology to them. Fact is like I said in a previous post, while they were there and heard the insult, it was more than them that were insulted. Just my 2 cents and my first amendment rights being used here.

[x635 4,066]

I think Finnegans is the only real bar or "pub" in Yorktown, if I'm not mistaken? Obviously, it was a fun place to go. Has anyone contacted the OWNER of this establishment to let him/her know about his bartender's and manager's comments and inaction?

It's called the Freedom Tower, I assume, to represent the freedoms an American citizen is privledged to have. One of those is free spech. However, free speech comes with responsibilty and consequences.

A good bartender knows his clientele, and obviously this one didn't. I say go in there, in mass, order drinks and food from him, keep him really busy, and have everyone tell him his tip is going to a 9/11 charity. Maybe that will send the strongest message to him.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I say go in there, in mass, order drinks and food from him, keep him really busy, and have everyone tell him his tip is going to a 9/11 charity. Maybe that will send the strongest message to him.

Sinisterly genius.

[joetnymedic 43]

You know Seth that might just be another good idea and ask the manager to come over when it's done. I'd come up and have a few non-alcohol based drinks with the fellas for that. Seeing as I'd be really screwed up if I drank anything with it. But yeah why not. Rob, can you put something together?

Joe

Edited January 21, 2011 by joetnymedic

[Medic5274 45]

You know Seth that might just be another good idea and ask the manager to come over when it's done. I'd come up and have a few non-alcohol based drinks with the fellas for that. Seeing as I'd be really screwed up if I drank anything with it. But yeah why not. Rob, can you put something together?

Joe

What exactly was said that is so offensive to Police Fire, EMS and other emergency service personnel? As a responder who was present that day when both towers came down and who lost a lot of friends I take great care in issues evolving around 9/11. I think he picked a poor topic to include in his game but I am not offended by it.

To me this sounds like a very poor attempt at humor by this bartender. I don't think there was any intentional malice towards public safety personnel. Regardless of how many police are stationed at this new precinct they will not be able to stop another plane from crashing into the Freedom Tower. Using the tower as an airport. I believe that is what his reference to an airport is all about. As for the costs, he is right, there are going to be tremendous costs associated with this staffing level which will be borne by the taxpayers. With a family member involved with NY City budget issues I know that staffing this site will require reducing police manpower levels in every precinct in the City because they don't have the money to increase manpower by hiring large numbers of new police officers. The federal government will pay a portion of the security costs but they will never come close to the actual costs that NY City and it's taxpayers will be assuming for years to come. This knowledge in no way diminishes the need for security or the costs of protecting our Freedom and should not be construed as supporting budget issues when making security decisions.

I am all in favor of rebuilding at the sight and building even bigger to show our country's resolve against those who attacked us. They will not put us down and we will come back stronger and better. But the reality is the terrorist have the same attitude and will view this tower as their number one target. Terrorism expert around the world have deemed this site as a target and fully expect another attack. It might not be tommorrow or ten years from tommorrow but there will be another attack. Look at the resolve of the terrorist after the 1993 attack (which I was also at). They were beaten but not detered and came back 8 years later when we let our gaurd down and became complacent.

I think people need to step back and take a look at what really happened here. This was a piss poor attempt at humor. 9/11 is such a raw emotional issue for so many that it is often considered a personal attack by public safety personnel when someone mentions something other than remembrance and honor for those lost on that day. The bartender made a mistake. It is normal human behavior to become defensive when confronted like he and his boss were. To think that they don't respect the feelings of police or firefighters because they didn't immediately give an apology is some how tied to 9/11 goes a little far.

To my eleven buddies that never came home, you are with me every day.

[ajsbear 11]

You want to let the bartender know how pissed you were. Get a large group, go down there and have a party, build up a big tab and make him work hard then stiff him on his tip. Don't not give him a tip but give him .01, that's right, one cent. That will get your message across.

[IzzyEng4 427]

One thing is for sure, no way, no heck wahoo we have our "On The Road" get together it this Finnegann's.

But to help a brother out, maybe we should go to the Armonk or Thornwood establishments! And suggestions?

[joetnymedic 43]

5274, I too lost a friend and co-worker there who was with FDNY and worked for Danbury Ambulance in CT. I also went down the following day and spent quite a bit of time on site. You're right even almost 10 years later it is still raw and it will be for a long time, as I said in my post I am very bitter about what happened. Can we stop another plane from leveling the new sight? Hopefully we can, if we've learned something. But even if it were to happen again and this time the plane was brought down before reaching it's target, it still is going to have to come down somewhere. The original post said the bartender made his first comment under his breath, to me that's an indication he knew he was doing wrong. Is the cost going to be enormous? Yes it is, but being in the business, you know you can't put a pricetag on a life let alone thousands. Its sad that so many died senselessly that day not just responders who were just doing their jobs and giving themselves as they did so many times before. Maybe that's part of the reason it strikes a nerve. I personally don't think anything no matter how secure is going to be totally safe. I worked with someone who was working the tower during the first attempt at taking the towers out (WAS967 I'm sure you remember who that is) We got called to the city to transport a Captain who made it that day but had his back broken. We took him home upstate. I remember coming into the city and my partner the guy who was in the previous attack going you know this just doesn't look right and I couldn't do anything but agree with him. The FDNY Captain talked to me a bit on the ride home as I teched his call. I could do nothing but look up to him for what he did or tried to do that day. I can't do anything but look up to all of those responders who gave everything that day and didn't go home. I can't do anything but look up to all that worked the site after looking first for survivors then remains for some type of closure not only for themselves but for the families of all involved. Maybe it was an error in judgement by the bartender. But can you see where I'm coming from? It doesn't make it any easier to swallow when someone makes remarks like that because for many, myself included, things are still very raw. It just strikes a cord. The other thing that bothers me is that for awhile after the towers fell john q. Public came to realize just how important people in public safety are. Now almost ten years later, things are back to the same ole grind. Do I want people walking up to me saying thank you for what I did in EMS, no that would be very selfish. But it's like they forgot that people, yourself included put your asses on the line every day for others and it's taken for granted like nobody even cares. I'm retired so it doesn't affect me anymore, but I know many still in the business and while I realize they do this because its in their blood and its in their nature to give and to give of themselves, it would be nice for the occassional person to realize just what it is they do and how important they are. This next part is just me - because of what's wrong with my liver from getting Hep C and the amount of damage I have, I wind up in the hospital a few times a year. Sometimes being the thick headed person I am, I wait until I have no choice but to go and sometimes I get taken in by a rig. You know what like I said maybe it's me but I make it a point to say thank you every time as I've been on the other side of the fence. I hope what I said makes some sense as to how and what I feel and why I still feel comments like those made by the bartender get me going. But thats just me. Maybe there are others who feel the same way, maybe not. Stay safe out there my friend and thank you for giving so freely of yourself everyday.

Joe

PS- Izzy I'm all for a get together in Thornwood or wherever.

[JM15 386]

The point is that whether or not he has the right to say whatever he wants it is a business establishment and customer service should always be priority number one. By the bartender and the manager refusing to appologize they didnt put the customers feelings first. Obviously these patrons were offended and upset and they expressed their concerns and were ignored. As a customer you have the right not to go there and you should exercise that right. There are other bars in Yorktown... Personally I like Murphys better anyway

[Guest alsfirefighter]

First..everyone is entitled to their opinion and in all honesty...I wouldn't have paid any mind to what they said. Their are plenty of other people who feel that tower should not be built because of the security concern and how it will be another huge target and that history may repeat itself. I often wonder and waffle on how safe it is to build it. Maybe the bartender feels the same and didn't orate it the same as I just did. And the tax comment...give me a break seriously. Everyone is crying about taxes...and again maybe not the best spoken but sounds like to me the bartender is against the construction. Don't build it..no risk to those in it or around it. Don't build it...less tax monies needed to pay for the amount of security needed for one building and resources that might be better served in other parts of the city.

Bottom line is...thicken up the skin..not everyone is going to say things you like. By all means don't return...manager blew you off..maybe it was the way you approached it or handle yourself.

And for all of you with the throw a party or meet up with a bunch of you and order up and the stiff the tip. Most places auto add a tip with a certain amount of people....so yet again...think ahead instead of responding with emotion. I lost some colleagues and a friend on 9/11. Nothing that bartender said makes me feel he/she disrespected them or anything. Ignorance doesn't wipe away ignorance. think about that one.

[x635 4,066]

And for all of you with the throw a party or meet up with a bunch of you and order up and the stiff the tip. Most places auto add a tip with a certain amount of people....so yet again...think ahead instead of responding with emotion.

I did think ahead. If you go in there individually, they can't charge a automatic tip if you come in individually.

I think that if there were enough people inside the bar affected by 9/11 and offended by the comments, which I understand there were, that lends some credibility to the issue. the least the bartender could do was immediately apologize and offer a free appetizer or something, regardless of his opinion. The manager could have been sympathetic about it. It's a business, and customers were offended.

I don't think this is a 9/11 issue, this is a customer service issue. It's trivia night, which is often fun at bars. Some poke fun at some current events, but there's certain boundaries.

As for the Freedom Tower not being built that some brought up and possibly what the bartender was eluding to, that's just ridiculous. We're not going to rebuild and recover after a terrorist attack because we are afraid of another one? NYC will lose billions, and Lower Manhattan will suffer even more economically because we are afraid? Didn't we start a war where thousands more were killed and cost us and future generations billions upon billions of our own tax money so this supposedly won't happen again? What is the Homeland Security Department for? But that's a whole 'nother topic.

I live in a city where last March an American citizen disgruntled with the IRS flew his small plane into a moderate sized office building to get revenge with the IRS. Thankfully, out of the hundred or so people in the building, everyone got out unijured except for one gentleman and of course the pilot. The buidling was salvegable, and is already rebuilt.

The shooting of the US Congresswomen in Tuscon. These type of incidents proves anything can happen anywhere in this country from any type of people, and the best we can do is live our lives and be prepared for anything.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Last night the owner officially apologized on behalf of his bar tenders and the manager who discussed the incident with one of the guys the next day. We were slated to go there and try and set a meeting up with him about this, but this thread made its way back to him before we had the opportunity, so he contacted us about it. Either way, the issue is resolved from a personal stand point.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

First..everyone is entitled to their opinion and in all honesty...I wouldn't have paid any mind to what they said. Their are plenty of other people who feel that tower should not be built because of the security concern and how it will be another huge target and that history may repeat itself. I often wonder and waffle on how safe it is to build it. Maybe the bartender feels the same and didn't orate it the same as I just did. And the tax comment...give me a break seriously. Everyone is crying about taxes...and again maybe not the best spoken but sounds like to me the bartender is against the construction. Don't build it..no risk to those in it or around it. Don't build it...less tax monies needed to pay for the amount of security needed for one building and resources that might be better served in other parts of the city.

Bottom line is...thicken up the skin..not everyone is going to say things you like. By all means don't return...manager blew you off..maybe it was the way you approached it or handle yourself.

And for all of you with the throw a party or meet up with a bunch of you and order up and the stiff the tip. Most places auto add a tip with a certain amount of people....so yet again...think ahead instead of responding with emotion. I lost some colleagues and a friend on 9/11. Nothing that bartender said makes me feel he/she disrespected them or anything. Ignorance doesn't wipe away ignorance. think about that one.

Just as you say Instructor...no one actually cares about what we do except us. I am glad the issue was resolved but I think this was a whole lot of hullabaloo for what some idiot thinks.

I dont remember who has it as their signature but one of the members here has a quote saying dont fight with idiots, they just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience, well this argument was certainly dragged down much further then it needed to/

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Really, so the owner reached out and apologized because he heard about the discussion here? That's very interesting.

EMTBravo.......grassroots efforts getting it done....I like it.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Just as you say Instructor...no one actually cares about what we do except us. I am glad the issue was resolved but I think this was a whole lot of hullabaloo for what some idiot thinks.

I dont remember who has it as their signature but one of the members here has a quote saying dont fight with idiots, they just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience, well this argument was certainly dragged down much further then it needed to/

I'll combine a whole bunch of quoted posts into one, and just use yours to go off of...

This wasn't us taking a personal attack via the bartender who had it out for cops and firemen who died that day. Yes, 343 firemen died that day, along with 23 NYPD officers, 37 PAPD officers 15 EMTs, and 3 court officers, It is not just about preserving their memory though, it is about the 79 passangers and 11 crew members on AA flight 11, 51 passangers and 9 crew members on UA flight 175, 53 passengers and 6 crew members on AA flight 77, the 33 passengers and 7 crew members on UA flight 93. Its about the 2185 lost in the towers and the 125 in the pentagon.

I was not involved in emergency services when the attack happened, and regardless of whether or not I was now, I would have reacted the exact same. To me and the rest of the guys there, it wasn't about the cop comment, or the rag on taxes, or using the tower as an airport. It was an individual attempting to making fun of a tragedy that occurred in our country that took thousands of lives, ruined thousands more, and continues to ruin even more every day, especially the year of its 10th anniversary. All we wanted to do was stick up for the thousands of individuals who can no longer stick up for themselves, and we feel as if we've accomplished that. Should the "jokes" have ever happened, hey its their bar and they can say what they want, but now to know that the employees have be reprimanded for their actions by the owner, and they truly feel sorry for what was said, we feel like some good has come out of this.

Edited January 25, 2011 by JohnnyOV

[JFLYNN 681]

Last night, guys from the local FD and FD's around the county/city, went out to Finnegans Bar and Grill in Yorktown to play a game of Trivia. For those who don't know, the restaurant patrons form teams and answer questions that the bar tender has come up with for a chance to win a some prizes.

Last night, a question in the "Daily news" category was "What was the number of Police that NYC will deploy to the Freedom tower when it is finally constructed? A) 250 500 or c)700"

As soon as the question was asked, the bar tender, under his breath, but loud enough for us to hear stated "Either way, its going to make a pretty big airport." That got our attention, but rather then making a scene, we let it slide.

As soon as the answers were given out about 10 minutes later for that round, the bar tender over the mic states "The correct answer is C)700. Can't wait for our taxes to go up over this and not one of those cops will be stopping a plane.'

At that note, we closed our tabs, some guys gave the bartender a little piece of our mind and we all left. This afternoon, one the guys went back to talk to the manager, and she basically blew him off, and was completely rude about the whole situation, siding with her bartender.

Take what you want from it, but I just felt the need to share this disturbing news with guys who may have been there for 9/11 and might frequent this place... I know they have lost my buisness for good.

You were appalled??? Really?? I would suggest you QTIP, as it's just not worth it over an offhand remark that some guy made, and who knows what he really meant?

And if you still insist on having hurt feelings, brother, might I suggest you at least be "pissed off" or some other feeling more befitting our fine profession...leave being "appaled" to the country club set...

Actually, come to think of it...you didn't tell him or the bar manager you were 'appalled"..did you? If so, maybe that is why they couldn't take you seriously? ...Just sayin'...

[efdcapt115 1,511]

You were appalled??? Really?? I would suggest you QTIP, as it's just not worth it over an offhand remark that some guy made, and who knows what he really meant?

And if you still insist on having hurt feelings, brother, might I suggest you at least be "pissed off" or some other feeling more befitting our fine profession...leave being "appaled" to the country club set...

Actually, come to think of it...you didn't tell him or the bar manager you were 'appalled"..did you? If so, maybe that is why they couldn't take you seriously? ...Just sayin'...

That's funny!

Edit: JohnnyOV, this is a perfect situation for you to take the "way of the kitchen", not take the chief's comments personal, and now that the issue is settled, just see the humor in what was said and how he said it.....we always have to laugh at ourselves....

Edited January 26, 2011 by efdcapt115

[JohnnyOV 2]

You were appalled??? Really?? I would suggest you QTIP, as it's just not worth it over an offhand remark that some guy made, and who knows what he really meant?

And if you still insist on having hurt feelings, brother, might I suggest you at least be "pissed off" or some other feeling more befitting our fine profession...leave being "appaled" to the country club set...

Actually, come to think of it...you didn't tell him or the bar manager you were 'appalled"..did you? If so, maybe that is why they couldn't take you seriously? ...Just sayin'...

Good god, how presumptuous of me. I'll be sure to leave my haughty grammar for the new England tea party I'll be at this weekend

[joetnymedic 43]

good

[gpeifer 89]

Then like i said put the word out that this place is appearently anti public safety and everyone stop going there. Screw it, hit them in the pocketbook where it counts. If everyone sticks together then things can happen. Not to sound screwed up but go to our brothers bar in thornwood, I'm sure he'd appreiciate the business. All I know is I would sure let it be known not to patronize this place.

Another poster wrote the guy has his first amendment rights well you know what, when it comes down to a big slap in the face to not only public safety but to anyone involved in 9/11 then you know what the guy should have kept his trap shut. Not to wish bad things upon him but I wonder if he'd have a different attitude if he needed the help. As for News 12 and the Journal News, you get enough guys together that will either talk or stage a good old fashion picket by the place and I'll put my a** on the line and say I'd bet they'd show up. Fact is it would have to be organized. After I retired due to my Hep C and my PTSD, I worked the desk at News 12 Norwalk, I also currently program all their radios for them so that's one base covered. Plus while this place may be in Westchester, I'm sure those in the city would love to know about this incident. Maybe I'm just bitter as the OP said all that was needed was an apology to them. Fact is like I said in a previous post, while they were there and heard the insult, it was more than them that were insulted. Just my 2 cents and my first amendment rights being used here.

I don't know if staging a public assault on an establishment that serves alcohol is the best representation of police and firefighters right now. Was what he said in very poor taste, absolutely, but it is his constitutional right, the same constitution that we refer to to protect our rights.

The Journal News and News12 will twist this story to make us look bad.. I can see the headline now "Police and Firefighters Boycotting Local Water Hole, Where Will They Get Drunk Now".

Go elsewhere....there are dozens of other great places to hang out.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Last night the owner officially apologized on behalf of his bar tenders and the manager who discussed the incident with one of the guys the next day. We were slated to go there and try and set a meeting up with him about this, but this thread made its way back to him before we had the opportunity, so he contacted us about it. Either way, the issue is resolved from a personal stand point.

Great to hear. The biggest right we have is the right to spend money and choose where we do business. That is the most power the individual citizen holds.

[JFLYNN 681]

Good god, how presumptuous of me. I'll be sure to leave my haughty grammar for the new England tea party I'll be at this weekend

What does "haughty" mean?

Haha just kidding....thanks for qtiping...the world needs more of that.