Specing out New Turnout Gear

[38ff 250]

When it comes to buying new turnout gear for a small rural dept in the Hudson Valley, what do you suggest?

Call volume is 200- 250 calls per year. The usual occasional structure fire, car fires, brush fires, MVA's and the like are the norm. (Yes, I know you shouldnt wear bunker pants to a brush fire, but most small departments dont have enough brush fires to justify the big expense of wildland gear for a small handful of calls.)

Any particular features that work great as advertised or dont work at all, or "it sounded like a good idea, but no one ever uses that XYZ for it's intended purpose"?

I have already seen how sewing names either directly on to a coat or a panel on the coat doesnt work great when the member leaves the service and the coat gets passed on to a new guy, or more frequently, outgrows their gear.. A snapped on name panel is the way to go for that.

Any suggestions?

Edited January 13, 2011 by 38ff

[FireMedic049 597]

When it comes to buying new turnout gear for a small rural dept in the Hudson Valley, what do you suggest?

Call volume is 200- 250 calls per year. The usual occasional structure fire, car fires, brush fires, MVA's and the like are the norm. (Yes, I know you shouldnt wear bunker pants to a brush fire, but most small departments dont have enough brush fires to justify the big expense of wildland gear for a small handful of calls.)

Any particular features that work great as advertised or dont work at all, or "it sounded like a good idea, but no one ever uses that XYZ for it's intended purpose"?

I have already seen how sewing names either directly on to a coat or a panel on the coat doesnt work great when the member leaves the service and the coat gets passed on to a new guy, or more frequently, outgrows their gear.. A snapped on name panel is the way to go for that.

Any suggestions?

Considering that you likely have very few structural fires each year, you likely don't have a true need for the "high end" fabrics which tend to be a little pricey, but certainly worth the money for departments with high fire duty. I would suggest using the outer shell fabric known as "Advance". It's a blend of Nomex and Kevlar. Overall, it performs better than the regular Nomex III fabric, but isn't significantly more expensive like PBI or Millenia.

If you are looking at Globe/Cairns gear, I'd suggest their new Silicone based padded knee option.

You can also get the name panels attached with velcro.

Edited January 13, 2011 by FireMedic049

[38ff 250]

Thats the sort of info that is very helpful! Keep it coming!

[goon16 155]

you can call anyone of manufacturers and tell them your specs and what your looking for and they will work with you and design the gear accordingly

[firefighter36 52]

38ff, sent you a PM.

[38ff 250]

Meetings with sales guys are great sources for info, but they dont tell you stuff like you can find out by asking others who have no dog in the fight, like on here!

Edited January 13, 2011 by 38ff

[Danger 160]

How about just don't use anything made by Globe

[Guest jcnyc]

Dont fall for the Morning Pride BS. I actually like Globe more than MP. But the gear manufacturers all have perks. FDNY Spec anything is not always the needed norm like so many depts buy. I think a better idea would be to ask the member buying it for what they would like, as far as configurations and options. Bigger guys vs. Smaller guys. I am what you would call thin in the fire service, I like my pockets, and they are loaded! But you put bigger pockets on an already bigger guy and it doubles the width of them. Definitely buy rip stop in any of the material you purchase, and really get members to clean the gear they have after it gets dirty. The dirt really degrades the material quickly from the friction of the actual dirt.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Run volume makes no difference. The personal protection of every member relies heavily on their gear. One flashover can kill you, regardless of the number count at your FD. LODD's and injuries happen in low run volume FD's. In fact, one could argue that those FD's with lower volume may find themselves in trouble due to a lack of actual fireground experience. PPE is not the place to save money. Buy the best you possibly can, members, members' families and those you protect are counting on you to return to quarters unharmed.

[38ff 250]

I agree that skimping on turnout gear is a big no go. However, you can buy $800 on set of NFPA approved gear, or you can spend over $5000 on a set NFPA approved gear.. I imagine most depts buy the $1500-2000 range a set of turn out gear.

JCNYC.. What do you say dont use Globe? Do you have specific examples of failures, bad workmaship, or????

Asking members what they need and like is an excellent idea.

Morning Pride FDNY specs... I really dont care what FDNY uses.. They do things and operate differently than other depts. What may work for them may not work for someone else. I dont buy into those kinds of arguments. Should a dept buy new hose, fitings and nozzles with FDNY threads just because FDNY uses it? I know my dept and all others arround run National Standard threads.. It works better for us and our mutual aid depts than what FDNY uses.

Edited January 13, 2011 by 38ff

[Guest jcnyc]

I said I liked my globe more than my morning pride. It is a lot lighter and comfortable.

[FireMedic049 597]

Dont fall for the Morning Pride BS.

Out of curiosity, what would that BS be?

[38ff 250]

I took it as "FDNY uses it, so it must be the best. No reason to look elsewhere.."

[Danger 160]

Things have come full circle, it used to be "Let's buy it because FDNY uses it," now it's "We won't buy it because FDNY uses it." Globe has the lion's share of the market around here. I've had two sets of Globe and I've had two sets of Morning Pride. The MP is leaps and bounds better than the G-Extreme. I'd compare it to wearing a Neil Armstrong spacesuit vs a sweatshirt and sweatpants. The Morning Pride feels like it fits, the Globe feels like I'm wearing one of those fat guy suits.

[grumpyff 1,159]

If possible see if you can get a salesperson/distributor bring several sets to your firehouse for the members to try on. As you can see there are different opinions. I also have worn Globe G-Extreme and Morning Pride. The G-Extreme feels thicker, especially in the crotch area of the pants. It felt like I was wearing a diaper. Then again others feel Morning Pride is too thin. Get a consensus of he officer's staff/senior members, and see what fits your budget as well.

[38ff 250]

Alot of how the gear feels is directly related to what it made of. Outer shell, moisture barrier, and thermal shell. There are hundreds of possiblities you can use from the 3 to put a set of gear together.

What works for FDNY may or may not work for another dept. But to use the sales tactic that "FDNY uses it so it must work for you too" I dont buy at all. It may, or it may not, but without evaluation, it's hard to say either way.

Edited January 13, 2011 by 38ff

[cman473 56]

When it comes to buying new turnout gear for a small rural dept in the Hudson Valley, what do you suggest?

Call volume is 200- 250 calls per year. The usual occasional structure fire, car fires, brush fires, MVA's and the like are the norm. (Yes, I know you shouldnt wear bunker pants to a brush fire, but most small departments dont have enough brush fires to justify the big expense of wildland gear for a small handful of calls.)

Any particular features that work great as advertised or dont work at all, or "it sounded like a good idea, but no one ever uses that XYZ for it's intended purpose"?

I have already seen how sewing names either directly on to a coat or a panel on the coat doesnt work great when the member leaves the service and the coat gets passed on to a new guy, or more frequently, outgrows their gear.. A snapped on name panel is the way to go for that.

Any suggestions?

The best advice I can give you is build your gear to YOUR needs. Don't let some pushy sales person come in and tell you that you "Need" PBI because its the best outer shell material. Yes, the test show that the PBI's are among the best for heat loss and heat protection...but remember it is ONLY an outer shell. PBI that Morning Pride uses is the SAME PBI that Cairns, Globe, Sperian ETC Uses. Just Because something has a PBI Outer shell does not mean it is going to be ergonomically correct for your body movements or shape. You want to find the best "fitting" gear prior to deciding on where you want your name or what padded knees you think you want.

Do not purchase gear because your neighbors use it. They may a certain brand for some irrelevant reasons to the actual performance of the the gear therefore not having a fair review of view on particular turn out gear. They may have purchased the gear for such reasons as they are close to a particular sales person or my favorite line, "What they got for free" In my opinion if your choice came down because of what you were "given", then you do not deserve to be in the position on making the decision on peoples safety equipment only because the free pair of gloves of received does not make that the best gear for you. At that point you might as well been put in a burlap sack and some salad bowls. If a vendor chooses to give you something free after you have done your research and you placed an order then fine.

Call Volume is very important, types of calls are just as important though. You could do 1000 calls a year, most of them being EMS and MVA's and very few fires, then PBI is not for you. Stick to the Nomex/Kevlar blends such as Advance, Advance Ultra or Crusaders out shells. Be sure to research your thermal liners and moisture barriers as well and make them part of the comfort process.

I have worn Globe GX7, Xtreme, Cairns Agis and Sperian Ultramotion and Sperian Vectra through out the years. I have found that believe it or not the Sperian has been the best fitting gear I have worn and I am not saying this because I sell the line but because I wore it BEFORE I sold the line.

Remember to keep your safety in mind, your current gear issues in mind and what you would like to see in the future of your choices. Just because some thing "Looks" Cool does not mean it is or in fact that it will even work for you. Add your personal touch and TELL your sales person what YOU want and not what he would like to see.

I hope this helps. Be safe and Good Luck!

[antiquefirelt 994]

Remember NFPA spec is just a minimum standard to follow. An $800 set of NFPA complaint gear is likely fairly close to the bare minimum anyone would suggest, and far from the protection most of would want for ourselves, brothers, sisters and loved ones.

My FD has TO gear spec that we bid out or do RFP's to multiple vendors every few years and buy gear as needed. Since I've been here, we've had MP (most hated it, but it was pre-spec and Nomex w/ neoprene and bulky liners), Bristol (seams ripped out easy, but felt great on), Quest (great wearing, but a "pricing issue" occurred)and the latest has been Globe G-Extreme. Thus far, most everyone says the Globe is the best of what they've had, but we do have each set custom fitted by a company that is nearby the Globe factory so fit issues are always corrected quickly. In all it is slightly bulkier than my Quest(kept the old 9 yoa set for a spare). We've had a few "trial" sets in as well, but none made the cut for the larger purchases.