67 hours in the trenches

[calhobs 110]

"The epic snowstorm that hit the Northeast last week was matched with an epic effort from first responders, including a group of firefighters in Neptune, New Jersey, population about 5,100.

The Hamilton Fire Company crew that worked the night after Christmas were all volunteers, said iReporter Bhak Tanta-Nanta, a firefighter who filmed a 67-hour shift that spanned three days."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/01/man-chronicles-firefighters-67-hour-shift-digging-out-n-j-township/?hpt=C1

[helicopper 1,050]

I'm not so sure that this is an example of what to aspire to or how to operate in an emergency. Fatigue is comparable to intoxication in that it impairs your judgment, reaction time, and cognitive processes. Sending physically exhausted personnel into a structure fire or even allowing them to operate apparatus is a sign of either poor management or desperately inadequate resources (personnel).

These guys should have been required to get some rest.

Another example of the need to plan better for these types of incidents.

[Guest jcnyc]

They are volunteers they don't have the requirements like paid employees. They are there for free, so how can you turn them away?

[FiftyOnePride 100]

They are volunteers they don't have the requirements like paid employees. They are there for free, so how can you turn them away?

Because not only do they volunteer to perform, they volunteer to do so at a certain level that is safe and professional. Anything besides that could pose to be a danger to the public and themselves. Not saying this is the case here (They may have rested), but there are other instances where simply volunteering to do something does not quite cut it (ie. physical competency for interior fire suppression and other physically demanding tasks).

[helicopper 1,050]

They are volunteers they don't have the requirements like paid employees. They are there for free, so how can you turn them away?

This isn't a pay issue. It's a physiology issue.

How do you turn them away? Very easy. The CHIEF tells them to go off shift and get some rest and uses some other workers (again no distinction between paid/volunteer). If there aren't enough workers, prioritize the tasks, reassign other resources, call in mutual aid or other assistance.

It's called management and firematic officers (paid and volunteer) do it all the time.

There's a reason why there are work-rest requirements in virtually every industry.

[Dmcke 1]

In the ten minutes they showed you can tell me that they didn't sleep or rest? They showed 10 minutes over 67 hours. Maybe if you watched all 67 hours you could possibly say that.

[helicopper 1,050]

In the ten minutes they showed you can tell me that they didn't sleep or rest? They showed 10 minutes over 67 hours. Maybe if you watched all 67 hours you could possibly say that.

The article says they got about six hours of sleep over three days. That's what I'm basing my statement on.

[Guest jcnyc]

Helicopper, you live in a town with volunteers why don't you come and join? You can see how few people turn out for an emergency, then you can decide if we can send people home. I think it is amazing that this little town is lucky they have such dedicated people. I bet the people of that town have no clue how lucky they are! And my friends out in California work 48+ so I don't think fatigue is the issue, although I hated it when we could sneak in 39 hour tours, after 24 I just want to go home and to sleep!

[FD828 77]

The members dedication is NOT in question. However their safety is. As well as the safety of their fellow volunteers and the citizens they are so dedicated to serve. What would the discussion be if during the 66th hour of service they crashed and killed a family of 5 because they fell asleep? Our safety and well being is and always should be our #1 priority followed closely by the public's safety and well-being.

If there are not enough volunteers to respond, then mutual aid should be used.

[Just a guy 493]

I applaud these guys for their dedication to their fellow residents but I have to agree with helicopper. This is a safety issue, not only safety for the firemen but also for the residents they serve.

[Guest jcnyc]

I was in New Orleans for Katrina, we worked every day. You have down time and your body tells you when to sleep, if you can with mosquitos the size of birds. I don't think these guys were tooling around Jersey at 50mph in the snow. If you havent been awake for more than 24 hours and still been able to function then you shouldn't be any public safety job.

[helicopper 1,050]

Helicopper, you live in a town with volunteers why don't you come and join? You can see how few people turn out for an emergency, then you can decide if we can send people home. I think it is amazing that this little town is lucky they have such dedicated people. I bet the people of that town have no clue how lucky they are! And my friends out in California work 48+ so I don't think fatigue is the issue, although I hated it when we could sneak in 39 hour tours, after 24 I just want to go home and to sleep!

It never ceases to amaze me that A) people take discussions like this so personally and/or make it personal and suggest that the only way to be entitled to an opinion is to be inside the service/industry/etc.

Almost everyone has an opinion on politics but virtually nobody has ever run for or held office and I bet some don't even bother to vote. Yet there's no issue debating/discussing politics is there? What gives the emergency services, especially the fire service, the exclusive rights to opinions on the provision of their services? Absolutely nothing. Everyone has an opinion, everyone's entitled to an opinion and since most people fund our services through taxes, they have an absolute right to ask questions, offer opinions, and seek information.

I have volunteered; I've been a volunteer officer and board member. I know first-hand how dismal the response is to most calls in most places but I fail to see why you would suggest I'm not entitled to an opinion because I'm not currently a volunteer. As I said above, this isn't personal.

Back to the topic at hand... You're right. The people in that town are lucky. They're lucky that fatigue didn't cost them a house, an injury, or a life. It shouldn't be based on luck, it should be based on sound management and well-informed decisions. Studies consistently demonstrate that fatigue can cause the same level of impairment that alcohol does. Yet because of a snow storm, a very common phenomenon in the Northeast, we have people working 67 hours straight with (according to their information) only six hours of sleep during that time. My point is that this should not be heralded as "model volunteerism" but rather as a sign we can and must do things better next time so nobody has to work 67 hours straight.

Your examples of 24 and 48 hour shifts are fine except for the fact that they're all allowed to sleep during that time. And, if fatigue becomes a factor, the member can get rotated out of fireground operations for rehab. If you're going to tell me that they're all so busy all the time that they don't sleep for 24 or 48 hours I'm going to respond by saying they're impaired at the end of that time and they shouldn't be operating apparatus or entering IDLH environments. They probably shouldn't even be allowed to drive home without resting first so we don't read about them crashing during their long commute home.

[helicopper 1,050]

I was in New Orleans for Katrina, we worked every day. You have down time and your body tells you when to sleep, if you can with mosquitos the size of birds. I don't think these guys were tooling around Jersey at 50mph in the snow. If you havent been awake for more than 24 hours and still been able to function then you shouldn't be any public safety job.

Able to function, yes. Able to function as well as when not exhausted, no. There are definite reductions in fine motor function and cognitive abilities the same as there are with alcohol impairment. Do you want the guy beside you or behind you to be impaired as you go down that hallway?

[Just a guy 493]

I was in New Orleans for Katrina, we worked every day. You have down time and your body tells you when to sleep, if you can with mosquitos the size of birds. I don't think these guys were tooling around Jersey at 50mph in the snow. If you havent been awake for more than 24 hours and still been able to function then you shouldn't be any public safety job.

theres a world of difference between being up for 24 hours and being up for 67 hours with a few hours sleep.

[Guest jcnyc]

You guys are completely missing the point. Not even worth trying to change your mind, just be aware Chris that where you live you won't have an issue of someone coming to help your family, they may show up on no sleep but it will be done. It is amazing how many people just see this trite part of this piece of journalism. I wonder if they were given bathroom breaks and if they were near an eye shower cause one of them could have been sprayed with battery acid cause of the corrosion from the salt. And when I go to work, sleep is few and far between, that is why doing a 39 or 48 is horrible, except you may have a few days to recoup.

[mreis95 77]

No one said they have to stop for every single car that was stuck and kill themselves getting these dopes who drove out that night out of the snow banks. I can see stopping and helping those ambulances but not joe shmoe.

[mreis95 77]

It never ceases to amaze me that A) people take discussions like this so personally and/or make it personal and suggest that the only way to be entitled to an opinion is to be inside the service/industry/etc.

Was that really needed?