BLS fly cars

[calhobs 110]

was wondering what everyone thinks of it, is it useful,does it wrok and do you have one? Think only one has from what i heard its in Sleepy Hollow

[x648eng119 2]

Somers has one - 80U4. For a big area like Somers, it can work real well, because sometimes it can take a crew member 20 minutes to get to the ambulance depending on traffic, weather, etc. And they may have to pass the scene. If the EMT can go right to the scene and initiate care, it's a win/win situation. I am not sure on how Sleepy Hollow works thiers, or how well it pays off for them.

[Pudge3311 5]

They are a good idea for a big are like Somers however I think they defeat the purpose. They should be used more to get people to the ambulance. If you get to the scene, you still have to wait for someone else to get the ambulance. Yes, you would be iniating care sooner, but if your still waiting for someone else to go and get the ambulance, wouldnt it be better to get the ambulance there so that you can transport?

[x648eng119 2]

They are a good idea for a big are like Somers however I think they defeat the purpose.  They should be used more to get people to the ambulance.  If you get to the scene, you still have to wait for someone else to get the ambulance.  Yes, you would be iniating care sooner, but if your still waiting for someone else to go and get the ambulance, wouldnt it be better to get the ambulance there so that you can transport?

But you've worked in Somers - you know how long it can take them to get a full crew to the ambulance at times. Why not send the EMT to the scene to start care - remember the golden hour - and then the driver picks up the ambulance and brings it to the scene - that's the whole idea behind it. (Aside from buffy members getting to use red lights and sirens)

[Pudge3311 5]

How bout using 80U4 as the taxicab, pick up the members, go through all the traffic, and now youve got yourself an ambulance in half the time?

[x648eng119 2]

You're selling to the wrong crowd - I was just informing you how it works. Plus - Red Lights and sirens don't save THAT much time.

[Guest NYTruckie]

LVAC has two 6703, and 6708's van now has red lights and lvac magnetic signage on the doors. Also NYS certification stickers

[Pudge3311 5]

I know im selling to the wrong crowd. That was the point of the post, starting patient care 5 minutes sooner but still waiting 15 minutes for an ambulance to arrive to transport is silly. Go and staff the ambulance, and then when you arrive, you can start pt care, package, and transport while continuing your assesment. Your really not helping the patient any if you cant transport them anyplace.

[Guest NYTruckie]

So a patient should wait another 5 minutes for o2? How would you feel if you were watching a family member gasping for air for an extra 5 minutes?

[PFDR45 0]

So the patient has O2, and the EMT/Medic depending on the flycar personel have done all they can do , what do we tell the patients family when they ask why we are not going anywhere? Or what if no crew is available/or no bus is available and now you must wait for mutual aid Time is ticking!

[Guest chief865]

No sale on going to the ambulance first. If the options there to start some sort of medical care, then I would choose that option. In my department, EMT's have the option of going straight to the scene if its in between them and the FD. I would rather get patient care started and wait then to have the patient wait while a crew assembles to get the ambulance. Its not all about administering O2. How about the person choking? Bleeding that can be controlled? Most importantly, CPR? If you can get an EMT to the scene to perform CPR and get a rare save, then its worth it. There are more benefits to starting medical treatment sooner than waiting and have the ambulance arrive with a full crew.

[Guest x2371]

I also believe Chappaqua Vac has one Dont know the # nut see it driving around. It's a new ford explorer.

[Pudge3311 5]

chief865,

Does the EMT who goes straight to the scene have any equipment with them? Im guessing no, what organization is going to equip every EMT with a first in bag and O2? Thats going to cost a fortune. If they dont have the equipment then what good are they? In this day and age of BSI, even CPR should not be iniatied without the proper equipment. So now you have someone on scene who is trained, but technically should not be doing anything because of those BSI precautions.

[gpdexplorer 46]

Maybe SHAC7301 can comment on this. I believe that SHAC has 2. A Chevy Surburban and a Ford Crown Vic. I dont know what is in the Crown Vic, but I believe that the suburban has O2, a folding backboard, and i dont know what else. I believe that the "on-duty" EMT gets to use them. Again, I believe SHAC7301 can better comment on this.

[x648eng119 2]

In order for it to be a certified BLS fy car, it has to be Part 800 Compliant, so there goes your concerns about equiptment

[ems-buff 81]

In the town of mamaroneck we have a BLS fly car but it's only for night and its only for the officers of MEMS and LVAC . i have a Pic of it here on emt bravo but i didn't take it

http://www.emtbravo.com/EMSVehicles/TMAD.html

[x648eng119 2]

I notice it doesn't have NYS certfication stickers on it, so it doesn't have to be Part 800, but correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure there is enough equiptment on board to treat most patients.

[ems-buff 81]

the car is part 800 they just didn't have the stickers for it and yes when it is use it can teat allot of PT'S

[Guest alsfirefighter]

If its being utilized as an emergency vehicle as part of that agency code then it needs to comply with Part 800.26 "Emergency Ambulance Service Vehicle Equipment Requirements" for service vehicles other then an ambulance. From my experiences from dealing with multiple officers from several agencies they were advised if they are running lights in their POV's that they should comply with that part of the standard by DOH.

As far as the argument is concerned. It is 6 one way, half dozen the other. We all know there are times where starting care quickly makes a difference, generally in true emergencies. Then we know there are conditions that getting the person to the hospital in a reasonable amount of time is what needed for more definitive care in addition to ALS intervention.

The bottom line answer to both, and this in not a dig at anyone or to start an arguement PAID EMS and in my opinion a tiered fire/ems response, Fire BLSFR with Fire based EMS. No waiting for either. Again, not a dig, but a fact of life. Why do we get pissed for waiting for the furniture delivery guy all day, or the cable guy, or impatient while waiting in line at the bank, taco bell or wherever you like to eat, but its ok to wait at all for an ambulance or fire truck to show up? Because we do it and enjoy doing it for free?

Would you want to wait for a cop as long as we wait for ambulances in some municipalities, if you were getting held at gunpoint or some other major crime? So why do people except it when it comes to their medical well being or life?

[WAS967 97]

Think only one has from what i heard its in Sleepy Hollow

Here is a list of ones that I know of.

Mohegan has U40 and U50 both of which are not just BLS flycars, but Fire Flycars.

Peekskill VAC has 7505 which is usually used for the line officer on call.

Cortlandt VAC had 8804? which is the captain's car.

Somers has 80U4 which was mentioned.

Heritage Hills' Security vehicles are all BLS response vehicles with full BLS gear AND AEDs.

Lewisboro has THREE BLS flycars now. 6703 is the Captain's car. Two of the Lieutenants also have thier vehicles equipped with RL&S and full sets of gear to speed response. Also to answer someone else's statement: LVAC supplies a majority of thier crew chiefs with full BLS gear INCLUDING AEDs.

Harrison VAC's "chief" has a first response vehicle.

Sleepy Hollow VAC's captain (Tod Spota, a member of this board) has a BLS flycar provided by the town. (Perhaps he can provide some information on how it operates).

Chappaqua VAC has 502 which is a flycar provided to the on duty crew chief.

Most of the FDs that provide ambulance service usually have BLS gear on the chief's cars. (Bedford, Armonk, etc).

All the above (besides possibly the FD chief's) are NYS-DOH certified BLS first response vehicles.

[SHAC7301 0]

Sleepy Hollow has two flycars...2003 Tahoe and a 1999 Ford Crown Vic.

Both are compliance with Part 800.21 regs governing EASVs (waiting for DOH decals for Crown Vic)

Tahoe is the Crew Chief's vehicle...it is first due to all medical aids...defib, reeves, folding backboards, jumpkits, O2, MCI gear, etc..Official tags, state cert. and county # (7310)

Crown Vic is the Captain's Car (yeah..I know..I am spoiled)..just received it this winter from the village and its equipment is virtually the same as the Tahoe (Part 800)...official tags, state cert. and county # (7311)

A lot of work went into the acquisition of these vehicles and there are strict standards in place for their use. We had to demonstrate our ability to roll the ambulances consistantly and expeditiously for the Village (we are not incorporated...we are a department under the mayor like fire and police) to even consider them. They are not cheap to purchase, outfit and operate..the Tahoe was new and the Crown Vic was handed down from the Villlage Administrator..

They work for us...medical care is initiated more quickly than ever before...response times for the ambulances have decreased, not increased. This we attribute to other factors such as manpower levels, duty crews and alot of people who won't leave the darn ambulance building!!!!

Four wheel drive is a godsend during the winter and on the off-road calls.

They also give the Crew Chief and Captain the ability to coordinate a response via the various radios (low/VHF/UHF).

They also have helped with recruitment and retention and have "motivated" people to become EMTs and Corps officers.

EASVs or BLS Flycars will not work for everyone or every agency, but they do work for us. The bottom line, as you all have mentioned, is our ability to roll the ambulances in our respective units 24X7 and cover the calls.

[Guest NYTruckie]

Pudge 3311 asks

chief865,

Does the EMT who goes straight to the scene have any equipment with them?  Im guessing no, what organization is going to equip every EMT with a first in bag and O2?  Thats going to cost a fortune.  If they dont have the equipment then what good are they?  In this day and age of BSI, even CPR should not be iniatied without the proper equipment.  So now you have someone on scene who is trained, but technically should not be doing anything because of those BSI precautions.

Lewisboro gives all the EMT's first in bag's and o2 for their cars. The crew chiefs also have aed's in their cars..

[Remember585 815]

If someone is willing to make the commitment to respond on all EMS calls with a designated "BLS Fly-car" why can't they utilize an Ambulance?

I am all for providing care in the fastest manner possible, but wouldn't it be more prudent to use that available manpower on a transport vehicle vs. a car that can't?

In my opinion, which I have voiced time after time at numerous Department meetings, if someone is calling for our help we should provide as quickly as we can. Sending a BLS fly-car can be nice, but if nobody picks up the ambulance, we aren't exactly helping.

[mikeinet 37]

Remember585 - I understand what you're saying... but say a crew chief has a first responce vehicle with them - they arn't bound to stay in quarters (they ARE volunteering!) and they can get quick to a scene if it's important while the rest of the crew responds regularlly... shrug.

[SHAC7301 0]

Again...it doesn't work for everyone, but in Sleepy Hollow's case, the response times for the ambulances actually decreased after we put the fly car(s) into service. One of my rigs is out on a call now where the crew (minus the crew chief) was in the building when the tones went off. The rig and the fly car responded at the same time from diferent ends of the village. Now if a second call comes in (it happened yesturday), the crew chief will split the crew (they have five in service right now) and respond back to Ambulance HQ (lights and siren) to get the second rig or respond to the second scene if a backup crew marks in service (all EMTs and some drivers have portable radios). The system worked great yesturday. It has taken some time for us to "fine tune" our system, but it works well for us.

And to answer an earlier question/comment..yes, we do occasionally pick up a "walking" crew member with the flycar...it just happened minutes ago...response time was not affected...the crew chief knows not to deviate from the most direct response route

Personal note.....

I was in the Tahoe last year and responded directly to the scene of a unconscious/unresponsive in Pocantico Hills. The ambulance crew marked enroute to the ambulance HQ while I was enroute to the scene. A Mt. Pleasant Police officer and I were able to revive the patient (she wasn't breathing when we arrived). The ambulance arrived expeditiously and we transported the patient. She walked out of the hospital weeks later.....

The system worked in that case...

[mikeinet 37]

SHAC - I agree that it almost most cases it can work fine... yes, you might look like a tool or sit there playing with your thumbs if the ambulance is very delayed... but at least in a situation where a pt needs to be revived... or an aed is needed... its there fast.

[Remember585 815]

Remember585 - I understand what you're saying... but say a crew chief has a first responce vehicle with them - they arn't bound to stay in quarters (they ARE volunteering!) and they can get quick to a scene if it's important while the rest of the crew responds regularlly... shrug.

And when no ambulance shows up to transport them - was it worth it???

[Guest CFDFASTleader]

This is crazy. We have pre-hospital, pre-ambulance care now? What has the world come to?

Get the ambulance and really help someone.

If a vol. ambulance can't get the rig out-for any reason, pay a crew.

[27east 19]

This is crazy.  We have pre-hospital, pre-ambulance care now?  What has the world come to?

Get the ambulance and really help someone.  

If a vol. ambulance can't get the rig out-for any reason, pay a crew.

Amen to that

[mikeinet 37]

Don't get me wrong... i'm not saying that it isn't an issue ambulances get out and this should add to that issue - -

but say CVAC's district: their district extends to the Kisco Park area... that's a like 10 minute drive to headquarters. So, say you get a full arrest - 10min to drive to HQ to get the ambulance, (if the arrest is on teh same side of town... another 10min back)?

If you had a first responce vehicle, it'll just increase teh speed of care. I'm not saying it is going to address other issues such as getting crews out.