Unionized EMS getting bigger?

[Guest DPT6800]

So with recent talk on the internet, the IAEP is looking for transcare in the city to join the ranks of Unionized EMS. Apparently Empress EMS is the only union formed EMS in the hudson valley region, and on the IAEP Transcare website Empress is waiting on approving a new contract with a 13% incress in wages.

Heres the link to IAEP Transcare regaurding EMPRESS EMS:

IAEP dispels Empress EMS Contract Rumors

So when it's all is said and done.. Why can't EMS be unionized and as strong as a PBA, or IAFF?

Edited December 21, 2010 by DPT6800

[Ga-Lin 86]

So with recent talk on the internet, the IAEP is looking for transcare in the city to join the ranks of Unionized EMS. Apparently Empress EMS is the only union formed EMS in the hudson valley region, and on the IAEP Transcare website Empress is waiting on approving a new contract with a 13% incress in wages.

Heres the link to IAEP Transcare regaurding EMPRESS EMS:

IAEP dispels Empress EMS Contract Rumors

So when it's all is said and done.. Why can't EMS be unionized and as strong as a PBA, or IAFF?

Because there's to many (kids mostly) who are willing to do the job for next to nothing for either the rush or for the "experience".

Edited December 21, 2010 by Ga-Lin

[Goose 188]

I'm pretty sure that TC NYC 911 employees voted down the union, no?

As for unionized EMS...i guess its nice in theory...but there just isn't currently a union, in my opinion, that would be worth whatever i pay in dues. Until i see something serious like the PBA or IAFF/UFA...just don't see it being worth it...

Pittsburgh Paramedics have their Fraternal Association of Professional Paramedics, Boston EMS seems to be covered by an EMS division of the PBA...these guys seem squared away...i just don't get the same feeling from organizations that exist locally.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Goose

[ny10570 745]

Goose is correct, Transcare 911 handily beat back unionization. Not to pick on you Goose, but your attitude is exactly why unionization won't work in EMS. Empress for all its flaws is regularly held up as an example of a quality EMS gig. FDNY EMS as backwards as it is run still has a total compensation package exceeding everyone else in the area. These aren't by accident.

I can only speak on what I know, so I'll focus on FDNY. For years pay languished and benefits slowly improved as we were just a small portion of DC37. A few of our members stepped up in leadership positions in the local and began fighting. We gained bargaining rights independent of DC37, we've lobbied for and attained pension benefits from the state legislature, and our pay increases are finally matching the other emergency services. This is absolutely because of the hard work and dedication of our union.

The single biggest hinderance in contract negotiations is our only real fallback is binding arbitration. Here our biggest hinderance is the industry's prevailing wage. The second largest EMS provider in NYC is Transcare and their total compensation is significantly lower than ours. So how do we argue that we need more money to recruit quality employees when someone else is doing the same job for less?

[sympathomedic 383]

I have been at Empress for my whole career, 22 years. We had a union that was bad. We got rid of it and were non-union for quite a while. We rejected 1199 at one point. Then we organized with IAEP. I was VERY opposed to any union. I feared it would keep us from firing people who needed to be fired, and we all know who those folks are. That has happened one or two times. BUT we also saved some folks who needed a break. I was afraid the union would insist on dumb work rules (ever seen the guys who still operate automatic elevators in the city?) That has not happened, and in fact we have some good rules that keep our folks from being made to do stuff they really should not be doing.

It is work. A local needs to be fed, watered, fertilized and on occasion; prunned. Many folks use EMS as a holding pattern to get jobs with PD, FD RN etc. Because they are visitors and not residents, they don't invest in fixing the place up, so it doesn't happen. It takes a lot of time to run our local, and I am very thankful for our union officers- we are lucky to have them. As our benefits improve- they have steadily with each new contract- ($100 contribution to flex-beneifit plan, higher % match for 401K, more extra pay for nights/weekends, $75 annually for uniforms above and beyond the uniforms themselves.

This is a topic that is ripe for discussion. It can be a very emotional issue. When we rejected 1199, some very good friends did not show up for my wedding because of my position against it. I hope this thread continues, and good information gets out.

Oh, and thanks for that "quality gig" comment. I am going to fantasize that I get some credit for that rep!

Bill

[x635 4,066]

For those of you in the private sector with no union and have health benefits, paid vacation, etc....thank a union worker for that.

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Almost all of the EMS agencies in the Capitol Region of NY are unionized. I met with the contract committee for the Albany County Sheriff's Office tonight to finalize our first contract. We are the newest agency in the area (just over 10 years old) and finally unionized last year.

I couldn't imagine working for a private EMS agency without a union! Maybe it's only up here that we get treated like crap in private EMS...?

[IzzyEng4 427]

I think unionized EMS will get big mainly because of how large many of the private firms are becoming. Look at AMR and how rapidly thet grew as an enterprise. The problem lies is what union an EMS agency would be affilaiated with. If you look, many places are represented by AFSME, IAFF, Teamsters, UAW, ect. so there is no uniformity with the Locals. I think this is the first step that a "EMS union" must overcome, try and organize with one Union. When you are talking municipal agencies, then that is a different beast as many have organized under AFSME or the IAFF.

If EMS agency workers want to unionize then there should be some effort to try and to be organized under the same affilation. And also remember, your union / local is as strong only by how strong your members want it to be. Its not a cake walk, you have to work on it to make it successful. Once that happens, you'll see it get stronger for EMS employees.

[ncfd3224 0]

EMS needs to be unionized. How many full time EMS workers you know that work for a service non union that are truly happy with there job? I do not know many. These companies run there employees in to the ground. When they talk about going union, these companies make promises they never can keep to avoid a union. However, EMS needs a real union like the IAFF. These small time unions that are just looking for union dues with no real benefit are a waste. I also beleive EMS needs to step up as far as education,quality candidates, and there over all image in order to be taken more seriously in the public eye.

[sympathomedic 383]

To paraphrase Izzy, a Union is not an energy source, it is a magnifying glass to focus energy. If your job has no energy, the glass is useless.

As for a single Union, that could go both ways. A big Union could better influence laws like one requiring a more crash-worthy ambulance that congressmen from Ohio always block. But a single EMS national with no competition could lead to bad service. Why work hard if you are the only game in town? For those readers not in a Union, a Local Union can leave it's National and affiliate with another National if it feels it is not getting good service- such as lawyers and negotiators.

My dues are about $12/week, which I pay and forget about. I don't expect to get anything for nothing, and this is the cost. It the the price I pay to leave the job better for those that will follow- a responsibility I feel we all have. I just hope those that follow can get off facebook and texting (and EMT Bravo) long enough to appreciate it. (I can't make a winky thing, so you'll have to imagine me winking!)

Bill

[ny10570 745]

FDNY EMS is in AFSCME and we absolutely have a voice on the national level. Small fish in a big pond wether its full of other EMS fish or a lot of different fish is still the small fish. I was at the AFSCME national in July and saw first hand the pull that our little local had managed. We are in an excellent position on that front and its only because of the political astuteness of our leadership. Its not about who you are, but its about what you can do. As Bill so clearly pointed out with Izzy's quote, it the memberships actions that get us clout. When we turn up in relatively large numbers at a rally or campaign stop people notice. When our candidates win or go from dogs to contender, they notice. When we're out in front of union issues, they see it. But none of these things happen without the members stepping up.

Boston EMS is another job that has done quite well for themselves yet they're a small part of the Boston PBA. FDNY is the biggest and they have more of a hate/hate relationship with the IAFF.

[ems-buff 81]

The single biggest hinderance in contract negotiations is our only real fallback is binding arbitration. Here our biggest hinderance is the industry's prevailing wage. The second largest EMS provider in NYC is Transcare and their total compensation is significantly lower than ours. So how do we argue that we need more money to recruit quality employees when someone else is doing the same job for less?

Well at Empress we do not have binding arbitration ( I believe because we are privite sector) , which is a good thing, in my eyes. I will say this. IAEP has worked very hard this past year and 1/2. I myself as a member of IAEP local R2-20, give them alot of credit. Yes the 13% incress in our contractis good, but don't you think if transcare does go union, there total compensation will go up, all in all benfiting everyone that works in the city as EMS?

[ems-buff 81]

Also looks like we will know the vote count soon....

Ballot fileling info.

I say if the employees want it. Good luck to them.

[gamewell45 258]

While I agree that money is a very important issue for all workers; consider this; under a union contract you'll have work rules that you the employee decide what they will be; another benefit is that you'll have a grievance process to address issues that come up in the work place; you'll be able to address quality of life issues and working conditions and most importantly, job security. All the money in the world is useless if you have no job to come to.

It amazes me that people in this day and age are willing to work non-union; of course i've only worked union for my entire career, so its all I know; but what i do know for sure is that its kept me employed and given me the best benefits in my industry. Most people in my industry who work non-union make peanuts compared to me and have poor if any medical/insurance benefits. The most important thing to me is that I as a member have input into what goes into our contract; I help to decide what is most paramount to me; not some suit sitting behind a desk who gets a bonus for cutting jobs or overtime.

[DDixie 12]

For those of you in the private sector with no union and have health benefits, paid vacation, etc....thank a union worker for that.

No, thank an employer who appreciates their workers and is in EMS for the right reason - patient care - not out to make a buck like most privates!

[FireMedic049 597]

I'm pretty sure that TC NYC 911 employees voted down the union, no?

As for unionized EMS...i guess its nice in theory...but there just isn't currently a union, in my opinion, that would be worth whatever i pay in dues. Until i see something serious like the PBA or IAFF/UFA...just don't see it being worth it...

Pittsburgh Paramedics have their Fraternal Association of Professional Paramedics, Boston EMS seems to be covered by an EMS division of the PBA...these guys seem squared away...i just don't get the same feeling from organizations that exist locally.

FAPP (Pittsburgh) isn't as "squared away" as you may think they are. FAPP started as a local level Union for Pittsburgh EMS. Several years ago, FAPP "expanded" and started to organize the EMS workers in some other communities in the county. These groups were organized into their own "Locals" and not as part of FAPP Local 1 (Pittsburgh EMS). They organized something like 6, 7 or so suburban EMS agencies, however a few of them have since decertified. FAPP Local 1 has done pretty good for themselves when compared to most of the other EMS agencies in the County, but they are nowhere close to being on the same level as Pittsburgh Fire (IAFF Local 1).

I work part-time for two of the suburban FAPP Locals and am very unimpressed with them regarding their involvement with both of these Locals. There's too much to detail effectively in this forum, but here's just one example of their unimpressive performance.......

I've worked at the one Local for almost 9 years now, almost all as a "casual" employee. Non-full-time personnel are not included in the bargaining unit, probably due to the fact that when they organized they relied almost exclusively on full-time employees for their staffing and "casual" employees worked very infrequently. Several years ago, that changed and "regular" work opportunities became available to the "casual" employees. During that time, we have been trying to get the "casual staff" into the bargaining unit, but without success. I've been told several reasons why it hasn't happened at contract time. Last year I specifically asked the FAPP Local 1 reps at a meeting about the issue and was told basically that it "isn't allowed" or something of that nature. I couldn't get a straight answer from them because I know for a fact that "casual employees" can be included in bargaining units. I stated this and asked if there was a "FAPP rule" that prevented it. Again, no straight answer.

Now here's the really ironic, confusing part. The 2nd Local that I've been working at for the last year or so, which neighbors the 1st Local, includes it's casual staff in the bargaining unit and now that I've completed my "probationary hours" requirement there, I'll be in the Union as soon as I submit the paperwork. That's right, I'll be working as a casual employee at two agencies represented by separate FAPP Locals, but can only be a FAPP member at one of them.

[FireMedic049 597]

No, thank an employer who appreciates their workers and is in EMS for the right reason - patient care - not out to make a buck like most privates!

No, you're pretty much wrong!

Do some research on the history of labor and you will find that many of the things that employers do these days in terms of wages, benefits, sick days, vacation, work conditions, etc. no matter how "generous" the employer may seem to be, have their origins in the early days of organized labor.

[gamewell45 258]

No, thank an employer who appreciates their workers and is in EMS for the right reason - patient care - not out to make a buck like most privates!

DDixie, I respectfully suggest that you read up on labor history in this country. Prior to unions, most people had no benefits, Holidays, 40 hour work week, pensions, etc. To avoid unionization of the work force, many companies began to give workers these benefits they never had before.

[Bnechis 3,961]

DDixie, I respectfully suggest that you read up on labor history in this country. Prior to unions, most people had no benefits, Holidays, 40 hour work week, pensions, etc. To avoid unionization of the work force, many companies began to give workers these benefits they never had before.

While it is clear that many of the benefits are the result of labor unions, most of those gains were 50-80 years ago and many of those gains are now long standing laws of the land (i.e. 40 hour work weeks).

I am an active member in an IAFF local and a rep on the NYSPFFA 5th district, so I do understand and believe in the power of our union. IAFF is a strong union in a strong union state (NY), but because of civil service laws, particularly the taylor laws we are very different than most "unions". We can not strike and we have binding arbitration. Now I have also worked for bith union & non-union EMS agencies and my experiences there make me question the effectivness of EMS Unions.

the 1st commercial service I worked for was represented by the Teamsters. EMT's & Paramedics were the lowest paid & highest trained employees in the Teamsters. There was a rumor that those who organized us managed to get fired and the Teamsters found them jobs driving trucks for A&P for twice the money (that was before I worked there so I do not know if it was true). What I did experience was during contract talks, we were offered a raise, that every member felt was substandard. We decided to take a strke vote. Teamster officials were outraged at us, they did admit that we were the lowest paid teamsters and this raise was less than anyone elses. We took the vote and it was over 75% in favor of striking and we were threatened, told the vote did not count and we would have to take another vote with the teamster officals video taping us to document who wanted to strike. They also advised us that they would not certify a strike and it would then be considered a wildcat walkout and we could all be fired. So instead of striking, we dumped the Teamsters.

I also worked as a medic for a major non-union hospital. While there 1199 attempted to unionize the hospital. Hospital administration gave them space to put up there info, had every employee rotate thru their presentation and then we voted. out of 6,000 employees less than 250 voted for the union. Maybe that is because when an employee feels that the employer is looking out for the employee there is little need for a union. About a year prior to that 1199 attempt, workers at NYC-HHC went on strike. Our hospital president told us that our annual pay raise would be delayed until the strike was over and he insured us not to worry. HHC was on strick for like 5 weeks, when it ended we got our raise, a 1/2% more than they did, plus retroactive pay and we did not lose time due to the strike....so win, win, win for us.

Unions have helped EMS, but they have also hurt EMS. What is holding career EMS in Westchester back, is dozens of perdiem EMS agencies. Most EMS union workers also work these perdiem jobs (yes to make ends meet), but they reduce the need for the union and its bargaining power.

[WAS967 97]

According to the one link I saw, the ballots for the Transcare vote were due December 27th. Does anyone know he results? I'm guessing they weren't in favor of the union since IAEP didn't mention anything about it like they did after the last vote down?

[PEMO3 523]

I was VERY opposed to any union. I feared it would keep us from firing people who needed to be fired, and we all know who those folks are. That has happened one or two times. BUT we also saved some folks who needed a break.

Unfortunately, a lot of people look at unions in a negative way like you did. If a union and employer work together the process can protect employees from being unjustly terminated for minor infractions while the bosses "brother" has his infractions overlooked. A union can level the playing field on the terms of labor relations. To not unionize so you can fire at will is a dangerous train of thinking. Imagine the shoe on the other foot. A union gives the employee a voice they otherwise would not have.