Northern Westchester fire departments seek volunteers

[x635 4,066]

Northern Westchester fire departments seek volunteers

By Terence Corcoran • tcorcora@lohud.com • December 20, 2010

CROTON FALLS — A recent recruit to the Croton Falls Volunteer Fire Department had completed most of his training when it came time to practice interior firefighting at the Westchester County fire training center in Valhalla.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20101220/NEWS01/12200315/Northern-Westchester-fire-departments-seek-volunteers

[FirNaTine 370]

Maybe its time to start looking into hiring Career guys? Take'em off the County list.

[Alpinerunner 61]

It's nice to see County (batallion) level coordination.

[newsbuff 286]

Maybe its time to start looking into hiring Career guys? Take'em off the County list.

Hiring, lol thats a joke......

[mreis95 77]

I saw a video on tv about this too. Is there anyway to get that posted on here, very good video.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Adam Stiebeling, deputy commissioner of Emergency Services for Putnam County, said any person interested in volunteering should visit their local firehouse and ask about joining. Some departments accept new members at certain times of the year, others have open enrollment.

A spokeswoman for Rockland County Fire and Emergency Services said prospective volunteers in Rockland should also visit their local firehouse.

Great advice. Send people to the empty firehouses to sign-up. That'll motivate em. Smooth move.

[x635 4,066]

What about the fact that Croton Falls, Lewisboro, etc have gone, like most Westchester communities, from a working class community to a bedroom community for the rich.

I've worked a ton of calls with the guys in northeastern Westchester when I worked 45-M-3. These are dedicated guys, but they are fading. It's always the same people running calls. I think one of the main reasons.....housing prices and taxes. The volunteer's simply can't afford to live in their communities any more. And that is sad.

Would a paid fire department do the trick? I don't think so. I'd rather see better staffing in Mount Vernon and places where life and property are more dense. Maybe daytime staffing or having shifts of volunteers would help. I hope this recruitment drive is a success, but I don't think that there's a large pool of volunteers to recruit from. Also, if daytime staff were to be hiring, they should be civil service career firefighters so they get the protection and rights they deserve...and not people who are hired as "custodians", etc. Those types of people hoolding job titles are just screwing themselves, and it's a band aid fix to the problem.

I don't think volunteers should do it for any sort of compensation, like health benefits or pension. The real volunteer firefighters don't do it for those reasons. I think affordable housing is an option, but, in a way, that's like hiring paid staff. Or, on the other hand, live in firefighters. But you have no guarentee of staffing with affordable housing.

The only realistic, temporary solution, and I don't know if this is permitted by New York State law, but allow these firefighters to respond to any call within the Battalion, especially now that electronic accountability and response tracking systems are in place.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The only realistic, temporary solution, and I don't know if this is permitted by New York State law, but allow these firefighters to respond to any call within the Battalion, especially now that electronic accountability and response tracking systems are in place.

What electronic accountability and response tracking systems?

Instead of any firefighter responding, this is the perfect case for consolidation. Then each station needs to only staff 1 or 2 units (1st due engine & a tanker or rescue). Even if the same number show up, you will have a much more coordinated response.

[mreis95 77]

I agree with Cpt., but for those like seth says are volunteers for the true reasons as he states they could get an agreement b/w the other departments and start going on there calls to assist them as well of course following that receiving department's sops and what not.

[JBE 328]

If I could fit in my mothers old house, or convince my aunt into letting me move in, I'd join Somers. Nice quote from Adam, haven't seen him in years. I think he meant on drill days, like Sunday.

What's the alternative to paid guys and higher taxes?? Volunteer 24/7 duty crews?? Volunteer duty crews on 8 hour shifts?? Enough to at least get one, maybe two fully manned rigs out? Combo departments like Port Chester??

With the taxes in Northern Westchester being what they are, I think the fire service up there will eventually evolve into any one of those scenarios. I'm more inclined to think of Combo departments more so than the duty crews, except maybe on weekends.

Every time I head up that way, be it Somers, the Carmel area, or even up in Orange County, I see the signs up. Volunteers needed. I also think the reality of it is that people just take it for granted, or can't be bothered to help out.

[JM15 386]

It's not surprising when most of the people we serve don't know we are volunteers...

[PFDRes47cue 653]

100% vounteer departments work in other counties in NY (some work in Westchester too...). Perhaps rather than pushing for more and more members, we should push for members who don't just join for the tax deduction... Departments do not need big numbers, they need big commitment.

Telling people to stop by the fire house to inquire joining is funny. Most fire departments in this county do not have people hanging around throughout the day. Some don't even have people there when there is a call!

[Bnechis 3,961]

100% vounteer departments work in other counties in NY (some work in Westchester too...)......Most fire departments in this county do not have people hanging around throughout the day. Some don't even have people there when there is a call!

While they work in some places, too many places are just hoping no one figures out that they are no longer a fire department, just a building with lots of expensive trucks.

Perhaps rather than pushing for more and more members, we should push for members who don't just join for the tax deduction... Departments do not need big numbers, they need big commitment.

Bravo. Too many depts do not understand this. Large numbers who don't contribute actually drain the department.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Sadly, the days of volunteerism in the truest sense seem to have passed us by. With more and more financial issues affected everyone, they really hit home with folks who work and then give their time for little or no pay to be members of the local FD or ambulance service. The public doesn't necessarily see that the same financial burden they feel pinches volunteer or POC firefighters/EMS personnel as well. With more people struggling to make ends meet, this scenario is only getting worse. At the same time, we've raised (rightfully) the standards for training and attendance to ensure a safer fireground. As we just saw with the Tarrytown tragedy, minimum training is a bare necessity.

In appears that in many places, besides LI and Westchester, the VFD's spend exorbitant amounts of money making the FD attractive to people, using new stations, new high end apparatus, FD social clubs, etc. In the end they end up with higher numbers, but maybe not for the right reasons? Until the public understand where that money is going and can measure the results in tangible ways, they may continue to get bilked, even if it is unintentionally. One must ponder the question that most VFD's have more apparatus than they can staff, why not slim down and move active, trained personnel to fewer companies to gain a better response. Far too often we see lines of apparatus at fire scenes with all the personnel working off the same few apparatus. The days of individual fiefdoms is coming to a close and the FD's that embrace the change early will have a position much closer to the "driver" of the regionalized bus, than those who bury their heads and the sand and are dragged into the inevitable kicking and screaming, with no voice in the implementation.

It amazes me when I see the Firehouse volunteer FD survey and so many VFD's have budgets far greater than that of my combo FD, and call volumes so far less.

Seth's has a point that there may be other alternatives to all out paid firefighters, but the discussion needs to be with an independent public committee of citizens who have no bias, just a sense of community. Too many of us fear speaking candidly with the public about our shortcomings and service levels garnered for the money spent. I can only say, that if you fear opening the books (all of them: financial, training, incident numbers) to the public you protect, you're probably not doing anyone, but yourselves, a service. The term Public Safety indicates we're doing this for the public, be your agency municipal, private or otherwise.

[JohnnyOV 2]

It's not surprising when most of the people we serve don't know we are volunteers...

It amazes me with the pamphlets mailed to homes, signs on the roads, sides of our firehouses, "volunteers" plastered on the sides of some rigs (not mine), fire preventions and other interactions with the public, about 50% of our town's people still have zero clue that we're volunteer. I cant tell you how many times, someone who has lived in town for 10-15 years comes to one of our events and give us the "I moved up from the city 15 years ago, what do you mean you're volunteer... No one stays here 24/7? How does that work? This doesn't make any sense to me, you mean you don't get paid... AT ALL?! Who comes if my house catches fire!?" They cannot fathom that people would volunteer their time to help others out. I've even had someone yell at me, "I pay your salary!" oh yeah? Thanks for the fat paycheck each week....

Maybe its the way society has raised most of its generation today, or maybe it just people don't give a rats azz about anyone but themselves anymore, but it seems like the more we try to inform people who we are and what we do, they just don't care at all. All they care about is when 911 is pushed into their phone, we're supposed there 30 seconds before they finish dialing with droves of manpower. I really wish there was a vested interest in what we do from the general public so they could understand how and why we operate so we could get the manpower and staffing that we need. It was hard enough to get my parents to understand the smallest portion of the fire service when I first started out, and they still have zero clue, even after multiple conversations with them about how their taxes are used, and how we operate. Try getting people who have ZERO affiliation with the service to sit and try and listen to that.

[antiquefirelt 994]

"I moved up from the city 15 years ago, what do you mean you're volunteer... No one stays here 24/7? How does that work? This doesn't make any sense to me, you mean you don't get paid... AT ALL?! Who comes if my house catches fire!?" They cannot fathom that people would volunteer their time to help others out. I've even had someone yell at me, "I pay your salary!" oh yeah? Thanks for the fat paycheck each week....

Is it possible they cannot fathom that for the amount they pay in taxes, the FD isn't ready to respond from the station 24/7 with a well trained and organized staff? Not necessarily your FD in particular, but to the general public, they only know they pay a lot and when they call 911 people all dressed similarly show up.

[yfd2007 1]

All excellent points...But how can any town or village expect people to volunteer when just to live in Westchester you have to work two jobs and send your wife back to work just to keep above water.

[antiquefirelt 994]

All excellent points...But how can any town or village expect people to volunteer when just to live in Westchester you have to work two jobs and send your wife back to work just to keep above water.

So few people really understand the fire service, and for that matter don't really care. As I said, 911 is called, and people show up and take care of the problem. Most of the time, they have no clue if they got good service or not. It often appears that just having the engine arrive quickly and the 1 or 2 firefighter looking busy is enough to satisfy the lay public that the FD had a "good response". Until now, most people didn't care, there were always the same few people that always complained municipal government overspent, but by in large, the public paid their taxes and accepted the service they got. Now, everyone is feeling the pinch far more than ever and many more people are demanding efficiencies. The same public who are seeing downsizing at work, re-evaluation of job classifications, pay freezes, insurance cuts, and layoffs are now saying "every dollar now counts far more than ever, I want to see efficiency for my tax dollars." Edited December 21, 2010 by antiquefirelt

[PFDRes47cue 653]

All excellent points...But how can any town or village expect people to volunteer when just to live in Westchester you have to work two jobs and send your wife back to work just to keep above water.

It is quite simple actually. If you are driven and want to volunteer to help your community and protect life and property then you find time no matter how many jobs you work. For me being in two FD's and a VAC are such a part of my life and hold such a big place in my heart, I could not see a situation where I would not be able to do it. Perhaps if I work 5 jobs, I will not be able to do 600 calls a year but I will still do the most that I can. No matter how much it costs to live in Westchester or anywhere else, if you really want to volunteer you do what it take to work and volunteer. At least thats my thought...

[Bnechis 3,961]

It is quite simple actually. If you are driven and want to volunteer to help your community and protect life and property then you find time no matter how many jobs you work. For me being in two FD's and a VAC are such a part of my life and hold such a big place in my heart, I could not see a situation where I would not be able to do it. Perhaps if I work 5 jobs, I will not be able to do 600 calls a year but I will still do the most that I can. No matter how much it costs to live in Westchester or anywhere else, if you really want to volunteer you do what it take to work and volunteer. At least thats my thought...

All this will change with 3 simple words:

1) Wife

2) House

3) Kids

[efermann 28]

All this will change with 3 simple words:

1) Wife

2) House

3) Kids

This is true. Add 4) job outside of town/district. However, it's not impossible for someone to manage those commitments with the commitment one must make towards a volunteer department. I know as I joined after the 1) wife, 2) house, and 3) kid. It's now kids. I would never claim to make the most calls in my company, but I certainly pull my weight and find myself near the top of the responses list. That is only possible because I have a very understanding 1) wife and 3) kids. The house kind of takes care of itself and doesn't give me much grief.

At any rate, if the future of volunteer departments is in question or doubt then it's probably time to do something different. One common complaint is that it's too expensive to live in this area and the people who can afford to live here aren't the people who will volunteer. I don't completely agree with that. It may be that the departments need to go after a different person as a member than they did 10, 20, or 30 years ago. It's not unusual to look at a membership list and see sons, friends, cousins, and relatives of former members. If those are the people are being forced out of the area due to economic reasons (which is a shame), departments MUST look beyond the families of current members. Times are changing and the membership of a department may need to change equally with the times. I'm certainly not suggesting I know how to do that, but merely stating that an open mind may need to be kept in order to keep a department or company viable. There does seem to be a lower value placed on volunteering from a majority of the population now. But some people will still have the time (or a very understanding family) and will find the value in volunteering. I don't think it's impossible.

[FFPCogs 863]

This is true. Add 4) job outside of town/district. However, it's not impossible for someone to manage those commitments with the commitment one must make towards a volunteer department. I know as I joined after the 1) wife, 2) house, and 3) kid. It's now kids. I would never claim to make the most calls in my company, but I certainly pull my weight and find myself near the top of the responses list. That is only possible because I have a very understanding 1) wife and 3) kids. The house kind of takes care of itself and doesn't give me much grief.

At any rate, if the future of volunteer departments is in question or doubt then it's probably time to do something different. One common complaint is that it's too expensive to live in this area and the people who can afford to live here aren't the people who will volunteer. I don't completely agree with that. It may be that the departments need to go after a different person as a member than they did 10, 20, or 30 years ago. It's not unusual to look at a membership list and see sons, friends, cousins, and relatives of former members. If those are the people are being forced out of the area due to economic reasons (which is a shame), departments MUST look beyond the families of current members. Times are changing and the membership of a department may need to change equally with the times. I'm certainly not suggesting I know how to do that, but merely stating that an open mind may need to be kept in order to keep a department or company viable. There does seem to be a lower value placed on volunteering from a majority of the population now. But some people will still have the time (or a very understanding family) and will find the value in volunteering. I don't think it's impossible.

I agree that it is possible to volunteer in this day and age even with all the other responsibilities that are a part of all our lives. But the most important point you make is that we (the volunteer fire service in general) must begin to look at new and realistic methods to recruit that are effective because of the changes in society, not in spite of them. Successful efforts must also take into account the need to consolidate services where necessary or practical. Without doubt the world we live in today is a far diferent place than it was when I joined 30+ years ago, but it seems to me that many are stuck in a time warp when it comes to realizing this as far as recruitment goes. People WILL join if we approach recruitement and more importatntly how we operate with an open and when necessary flexible stratedgy to utilize them. As with many issues that surround us as a service, an inability to "change with the times" will have disasterous results. After all if whatever "worked" in the past still worked we wouldn't be having this discussion. There are progressive and successful recruiting efforts out there that encompass all manner of stratedgies that may help with developing programs for your department, but it will take some hardcore research to find ones that can be used as templates to create you own. And that's the easy part. Of far more importance is the willingness of all involved to implement them once they've been developed. The challenges are many, the work required immense, and the commitment needed steadfast, but for those who are willing to put in the time, energy and effort the success and longevity of your volunteer fire department is the reward.

Cogs

[Alpinerunner 61]

The need to adapt recruiting methods is key. It seems the in the days of old, people were banging down the doors of VFDs, and the bar had to be set somewhat high in terms of getting qualified, the posting for 30-60 days, voting members in, call volume requirements. Now the tides have turned. The postings and elections are all but guaranteed, and if you make it to weekly drill you are OK.

Being an qualified/interior firefighter, however, has gotten much harder. Many people don't have the time to take the 120hr FF1 course and you end up with members who get bored with not being able to do real "work" and a department with low retention rates. I've heard stories about the olden days where you could show up, get shown the ropes and go into fires within a week. I'm certainly not advocating this, I'm just saying that's how it was.

My department is learning that you need to be very proactive with recruitment and you need to advertise as if you had a new product to sell.