State Releases Reports on Tarrytown Manhole Deaths

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State Releases Reports on Tarrytown Manhole DeathsThe report found "serious violations" had occurred which led to the deaths of Anthony Ruggiero and John Kelly.

By Sean Roach, Tarrytown Patch 12-16-10

The Village of Tarrytown has been served with two serious violations from the New York State Department of Labor.

The violations were for lapses in protocol and safety that contributed to the accidental deaths of John Kelly and Anthony Ruggiero on Sept. 6, 2010.

http://tarrytown.patch.com/articles/state-releases-reports-on-manhole-deaths

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Editor Sean Roach: Just finished a press conference with PESH about the investigation. Will post a followup story soon. —Tweeted 27 minutes ago

[JM15 386]

The report was critical of the fire department's respiratory program, saying the department did not have a respirator protection program that requires employees be trained in the proper use and limitations of respirators.

They noted that firefighter John Kelly "clearly was not trained to use a respirator when entering the confined space" and that the two firefighters who attempted to save Kelly and Ruggiero were also at risk during the incident because they "were not trained to use respirators correctly".

The report concludes that firefighters were not properly trained to identify the hazards of confined spaces. They noted that in 2005 there was a request for confined space training from the fire department's administration, but there was "no evidence" that it occurred.

This part of the story is very critical of TFD. I dont see how in this day and age you dont have a respiratory protection program? Do fire departments think they are immune to the wrath of OSHA or PESH? Once again condolences to the families and Tarrytown FD.... Hopefully we all can learn something from this tragedy.

[firecapt32 282]

JM15-- some departments are way ahead of the curve--some are a little behind the 8 ball--some departments try and are inhibited by elected personel,some departments are inhibited by their own officers and chiefs. The fire world is not like it used to be--you need intelligent capable fire officers with an eye to the future not an eye looking over their shoulder to view the past. Just because you did it one way for 50 years dosent make it right. "Times they are a changing", Laws are there to protect us, elected officials in all towns and villages should be taking note as to what happened in Tarrytown and what is going to happen in Tarrytown.

Bad decisions just might end up in tragic events.

[Bnechis 3,961]

This part of the story is very critical of TFD. I dont see how in this day and age you dont have a respiratory protection program? Do fire departments think they are immune to the wrath of OSHA or PESH? Once again condolences to the families and Tarrytown FD.... Hopefully we all can learn something from this tragedy.

Many many FD's in Westchester have very little regard for OSHA regulations. This year I can think of over 35 violations issued in Westchester (and thats just 3 depts). How many depts. respond to "fire calls" with fewer than 6 firefighters (at least 4 being interior)? I can think of about 20% of Westchester FD's (I know there are many more from reading the IA's) that violate the respiratory protection program by lack of manpower on at least a portion of there calls.

And the wrath from PESH is not strong enough to convince depts to change thier ways. I hope that the litigation that is coming will hurt enough to convince many depts that they need to follow the rules. Its sad to think that firefighters and officers don't fight for this because its the right thing to do and it will protect us.

Deputy Chief Billy Goldfeder has a great line, he asks: "WHO IS IN YOUR WALLET"? If you do not care for the people whos photos you carry in your wallet then dont follow the rules, they are there so that at the end of the day you go home to them.

[Monty 35]

Many many FD's in Westchester have very little regard for OSHA regulations. This year I can think of over 35 violations issued in Westchester (and thats just 3 depts). How many depts. respond to "fire calls" with fewer than 6 firefighters (at least 4 being interior)? I can think of about 20% of Westchester FD's (I know there are many more from reading the IA's) that violate the respiratory protection program by lack of manpower on at least a portion of there calls.

And the wrath from PESH is not strong enough to convince depts to change thier ways. I hope that the litigation that is coming will hurt enough to convince many depts that they need to follow the rules. Its sad to think that firefighters and officers don't fight for this because its the right thing to do and it will protect us.

Deputy Chief Billy Goldfeder has a great line, he asks: "WHO IS IN YOUR WALLET"? If you do not care for the people whos photos you carry in your wallet then dont follow the rules, they are there so that at the end of the day you go home to them.

I do think there are many people that could benefit from reading this report. A lot of the regulations are CYA - however if having a training program on the proper use of respiratory protection saves one person then it is worth it. Of course it's very difficult to prove that you saved someone because you had proper training on having the SCBA secured properly to your self ...

I'm sure that there are some that would disagree but I think there are some regulations that are more important to follow than others. Not to say that others should be disregarded but concentrate on the most important ones first. PESH is liking adding insult to injury - they really only seem to come in to the picture once something bad has happened.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

So long as FD's act as their own little empires very little will change. My buddy quit one FD because of the internal politics and resistance to do anything that wasn't thought of by his chief. I bet they're one of the many you say doesn't pay attention to OSHA.

[Bnechis 3,961]

PESH is liking adding insult to injury - they really only seem to come in to the picture once something bad has happened.

While that is often the case, the depts I was refering to had PESH visit and the violations issued based on they had not visited in a long time and not because of something happening. In 1 case a dept member (s) dropped the dime, the others were cold calls.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Don't even get me started. There are still numerous departments that fail to completely follow the bail-out law or NFPA standard regarding gear. Hopefully this is a wake up call to Commissioners and Chief Officers everywhere that you can not pick and choose which standards you follow or who can follow them. All standards and regulations must be applied totally across the board, if one interior member needs a bail-out, they all do, if your coat is over 15 years old, even if it saw no fire duty its gone. 2 in-2 out is a pipe dream....

I am sorry that this event had to happen but I am glad the PESH is as scathing as they were. It time to wake up and realize that various parts of the fire service in westchester is operating on an outdated and unsafe model...

Edited December 17, 2010 by bvfdjc316

[helicopper 1,050]

I do think there are many people that could benefit from reading this report. A lot of the regulations are CYA - however if having a training program on the proper use of respiratory protection saves one person then it is worth it. Of course it's very difficult to prove that you saved someone because you had proper training on having the SCBA secured properly to your self ...

I'm sure that there are some that would disagree but I think there are some regulations that are more important to follow than others. Not to say that others should be disregarded but concentrate on the most important ones first. PESH is liking adding insult to injury - they really only seem to come in to the picture once something bad has happened.

I do respectfully disagree. Who decides which regulations are important enough to comply with and which can be ignored? It appears that in this case a few rather important regulations were ignored and over a substantial period of time. This isn't a new rule that just came out that departments haven't caught up to yet. These are long-standing policies - for our safety - that have been ignored.

If an agency was starting from scratch I'd agree that you have to start somewhere and adopt an implementation schedule so you'd ultimately be in compliance but it seems that the emergency services (police, fire, and EMS) and allied agencies (DPW, etc.) that have been around for decades and in some cases centuries just don't bother even trying to comply.

You're right about the regulations being CYA. They're designed to protect us but time and time again we resist them as being too burdensome or expensive or the training isn't interesting enough and people blow it off. If somebody is not interested in protecting their own rear end maybe they should reconsider whether or not they can protect someone elses.

[Faded Soul 6]

JM15-- some departments are way ahead of the curve--some are a little behind the 8 ball--some departments try and are inhibited by elected personel,some departments are inhibited by their own officers and chiefs. The fire world is not like it used to be--you need intelligent capable fire officers with an eye to the future not an eye looking over their shoulder to view the past. Just because you did it one way for 50 years dosent make it right. "Times they are a changing", Laws are there to protect us, elected officials in all towns and villages should be taking note as to what happened in Tarrytown and what is going to happen in Tarrytown.

Bad decisions just might end up in tragic events.

Hm Firecapt32... perhaps tougher standards ( education wise- laws, updates, memos... training, maybe a minimum education deg. standard too? Perhaps an Associates IF that.) and for being an officer (paid or volunteer) need to be put in place? Maybe some who view it as a childish power play fantasy of "Oh! look at me I get a brand new chiefs car on the tax payers dime" need to be more concerned about looking out for the members of their FD over their egos and inflation of their egos. There should most definitely be higher standards on those in the position of Officers, Board of Directors and last but no where near least... the FIRE CHIEFS. There will hopefully be many lessons and a lot of learning to go around for all parties involved.

I just hope this horribly tragic wake up call is learned from...

[Bnechis 3,961]

Hm Firecapt32... perhaps tougher standards ( education wise- laws, updates, memos... training, maybe a minimum education deg. standard too? Perhaps an Associates IF that.) and for being an officer (paid or volunteer) need to be put in place?

Yes tougher standards would be of help, but, in this case the problem was they were not meeting the existing standards. They fire chief told them they needed it and the made the choice not to meet the standard.

How many depts meet the standards now? its only been a requirement for 14 years. Who will fight to require depts to meet the standards. As it is we have groups fighting to reduce the current FFI.

There should most definitely be higher standards on those in the position of Officers, Board of Directors and last but no where near least... the FIRE CHIEFS.

There are no standards in NYS for Fire Officers, except in career depts. and thats only 1st line supervisors. But barbers are required to have over 1,000 hours training vs. fire chiefs who need zero.

[Guest jcnyc]

These reports do nothing but point fingers. Although constructive in many regards they probably really destroy the feelings and emotions of those involved as the responsibility is usually placed on them. This was one of those incidents that was 100% avoidable but either complacency or the DESIRE to help, which is I think the real culprit killed these two guys. Unfortunately we can only learn from our mistakes, and I hope the death of these two men does not fall on deaf ears.

I also hope that this allows the family to have some type of closure on the whole incident.

[jack10562 414]

The official incident report is a scathing indictment in so many ways. So many lapses and on so many levels. It's appalling.

How many departments have air-line respirators necessary for use in this type of hazard/confined space entry?

(And no, this is NOT your Scott pack)

And how many departments have a continuing respiratory protection program, documenting employee annual (re)certification training, quarterly hands-on refresher training/ use dates, showing signatures who took it, who gave it, and what was covered?

Then there is documenting the monthly equipment inspections, and required annual respirator equipment performance testing and certification performed by a qualified vendor?

Who does your annual employee respirator fit testing and medical exams?

Nobody said it's easy to stay on top of all of this, but you can and you must, in order to avoid the possibility of a repeat incident of this nature. Lives depend on it.

Full Disclosure Statement: prior to retiring as a Senior Specialist in Con Edison's Environmental Health & Safety, one of my responsibilities was for Westchester Gas Operation's Respiratory Protection Program encompassing over one hundred covered employees, and believe me, it's a daunting task. But with qualified trainers assisting and meticulous record keeping, it can be done.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The official incident report is a scathing indictment in so many ways. So many lapses and on so many levels. It's appalling.

Agreed. The biggest was the Village knew and not only chose to ignor the law, but actually lied (during a 2007 inspection) and said they di not enter confined spaces.

When the law was originally past, the example given for the need for the law reads exactly like this incident.

How many departments have air-line respirators necessary for use in this type of hazard/confined space entry? (And no, this is NOT your Scott pack)

This is irrelevent. The issues for the fire department are not if they have the equipment, its have they been trained to recognize the hazard and based on the violation they are not incompliance with the law to enter any location with a IDLH atmosphere or a potential IDLH atmosphere. In plain english this means they may not enter or approach a FIRE.

[Monty 35]

This part of the story is very critical of TFD. I dont see how in this day and age you dont have a respiratory protection program?

I've no doubt that many departments believe they have a program in place, FIT Testing, medical, 15 minute explanation of how to operate, change a bottle etc - but there is more to it than that as Jack mentions.

I do respectfully disagree. Who decides which regulations are important enough to comply with and which can be ignored? It appears that in this case a few rather important regulations were ignored and over a substantial period of time. This isn't a new rule that just came out that departments haven't caught up to yet. These are long-standing policies - for our safety - that have been ignored.

If an agency was starting from scratch I'd agree that you have to start somewhere and adopt an implementation schedule so you'd ultimately be in compliance but it seems that the emergency services (police, fire, and EMS) and allied agencies (DPW, etc.) that have been around for decades and in some cases centuries just don't bother even trying to comply.

You're right about the regulations being CYA. They're designed to protect us but time and time again we resist them as being too burdensome or expensive or the training isn't interesting enough and people blow it off. If somebody is not interested in protecting their own rear end maybe they should reconsider whether or not they can protect someone elses.

Well, first of all in this case it seems the Village leadership decided, as Captain Bnechis says. I do think that this is one of the higher priorities - personally I was thinking that maybe some of the NFPA standards should be lower down the list.

Ideally, you should be able to meet all the requirements / standards, or be able to explain why not - but as mentioned, there is a tremendous reluctance to change. And not just in the fire service.

[JM15 386]

I've no doubt that many departments believe they have a program in place, FIT Testing, medical, 15 minute explanation of how to operate, change a bottle etc - but there is more to it than that as Jack mentions.

Trust me I am very familiar with 29 CFR 1910.134 and what is needed and required to develop a Respiratory protection program.For anyone interested here is a good link for further information including how the standard relates to Fire Protection...

OSHA Respiratory Protection Standard Overview

[ex-commish 490]

On a similiar issue on respratory protection does no facial hair still apply?

[JM15 386]

I believe there is no regulation banning facial hair. But you have to be able to pass a fit test at anytime.

[Bnechis 3,961]

On a similiar issue on respratory protection does no facial hair still apply?

I believe there is no regulation banning facial hair. But you have to be able to pass a fit test at anytime.

1910.134(g)(1)(i)The employer shall not permit respirators with tight-fitting facepieces to be worn by employees who have:

1910.134(g)(1)(i)(A)Facial hair that comes between the sealing surface of the facepiece and the face or that interferes with valve function; or

1910.134(g)(1)(i)(B)Any condition that interferes with the face-to-facepiece seal or valve function.

1910.134(f)(3)The employer shall conduct an additional fit test whenever the employee reports, or the employer, PLHCP, supervisor, or program administrator makes visual observations of, changes in the employee's physical condition that could affect respirator fit. Such conditions include, but are not limited to, facial scarring, dental changes, cosmetic surgery, or an obvious change in body weight.

[firecapt32 282]

The usual criteria for facial hair is no more then one days growth but and feel free to correct me if i am wrong it might fall into AHJ.

[jack10562 414]

The way we used to deal with the facial hair issue was any employee that might be expected to use a respirator during the course of the workday would have to be clean shaven at the beginning of the shift (with the exception of the permissible mustache) or else was directed to shave or be sent home with no pay, and further disciplinary action would follow.

It's called being fit for duty.

No way would I want to be the one who put a guy in a respirator with a facepiece seal that might leak due to hair growth, and then have something go seriously wrong, and have that come out in a similar report.

This is per

1910.134(g)(1)(i)(A)

Facial hair that comes between the sealing surface of the facepiece and the face or that interferes with valve function; or

1910.134(g)(1)(i)(B )

Any condition that interferes with the face-to-facepiece seal or valve function.

Pick-and-choose which requirements you would like to ignore at your own risk.

[SteveOFD 176]

I attended the NYS Confined Space Training Class at the WCDES this week, and one thing I did not realize is that Fire Departments do not need to provide Confined Space Rescue Services.

If an FD elects to provide these services, they need to provide their members with the appropriate training (basic first aid, CPR, practice making permit required rescues at least once every 12 months, etc.) AND ALL of the requirements of OSHA 1910.146 Permit Required Confined Spaces (see 1910.146(k) for the Rescue and Emergency Services section).

If an FD elects not to provide this service, they need to know who is able to respond to provide this service in their coverage area. This FD must also advise their members that they are not trained to provide this service and are not to attempt this service. This FD's members should be provided with Confined Space Awareness training, which will provide their members with the information of what they can and cannot do at a Permit Required Confined Space. This Awareness training is provided in the Firefighter 1 curriculum, but it does not hurt for "Veteran" members (like myself) to attend this training as a refresher.

[dragonrescue 28]

The official incident report is a scathing indictment in so many ways. So many lapses and on so many levels. It's appalling.

How many departments have air-line respirators necessary for use in this type of hazard/confined space entry?

(And no, this is NOT your Scott pack)

And how many departments have a continuing respiratory protection program, documenting employee annual (re)certification training, quarterly hands-on refresher training/ use dates, showing signatures who took it, who gave it, and what was covered?

Then there is documenting the monthly equipment inspections, and required annual respirator equipment performance testing and certification performed by a qualified vendor?

Who does your annual employee respirator fit testing and medical exams?

Nobody said it's easy to stay on top of all of this, but you can and you must, in order to avoid the possibility of a repeat incident of this nature. Lives depend on it.

Full Disclosure Statement: prior to retiring as a Senior Specialist in Con Edison's Environmental Health & Safety, one of my responsibilities was for Westchester Gas Operation's Respiratory Protection Program encompassing over one hundred covered employees, and believe me, it's a daunting task. But with qualified trainers assisting and meticulous record keeping, it can be done.

Jack

Your last 4 lines in this statement are right on target. It is not an easy task to keep all the above items mentioned and much more, implemented and up to date. The task at hand is overwhelming, but as you stated, MUST BE DONE. It is important for a department to put highly motivated and qualified people in the position of maintaining this life saving task. Most of the time, from my observations, this falls into the lap of the Chief. Sometimes, the Chief will assign a training officer to handle it for him. The bottom line is, if it does become overwhelming for that individual, they should seek outside help. I have a fire service training company, based in Westchester, since 1999. One of the services that we offer to departments that we train, is maintaining the all the above mentioned items for them. A message for everyone reading this topic, don’t be afraid to ask for help and surround your self with good people. It will make the task at hand go more easily.

Stay Safe

Mike Dragonetti

[Remember585 815]

Providing members the basic Confined Space & Awareness Safety program is almost impossible in Westchester County. How often have you even seen this course offered at WCDES? NOT NEARLY ENOUGH!

For the past few years, one of our members was granted a status of "Supplemental CFI" which allowed him to teach NYS OFPC courses in house for us. During this time, we managed to provide the CSAS class several times, HMFRO Original & Annual Refresher, Scene Support Ops and other courses. I don't have the exact nummbers in front of me, but we GREATLY BENEFITED FROM THIS!

A few months back, WCDES informed our Instructor that he could no longer do this, as it was only a "trial period" and they didn't want to continue it. To say that this is a major blow to our well-documented and repeatedly proven operations is an understatement. The second blow came a couple of weeks ago, when DES pulled the plug on using our firehouse as one of their satellite training facilities - citing "lack of attendance." Not for nothing, nobody ever bothered to A: advertise our firehouse as a satellite, B: Never took the time to explain to us (THE CHIEFS) what we needed to do to host classes here and C: Who cares if 6 people show up to a class? That's 6 people that benefit from this training!

As a Training Officer / Instructor myself, if I have one student, I am giving them my time. AND I DO IT FOR FREE!

I KNOW I will catch s*** for saying this, but I am very displeased with the way this county operates. People can say I am over-reacting or not seeing the big picture, but the proof is in the ink. If the classes WE ALL NEED are not offered often enough, then how the hell are any of us going to ever meet or come close to meeting those requirements that apply to us?

If a career FD is entitled to have an MTO, why can't volunteer departments? Don't the Instructors require the same training as the career guys? We have half a dozen guys whom have completed FSI-1 and have extensive training and experience themselves. Three of our guys are even certified by NYS to teach THIER PROGRAMS - BUT THEY CAN'T. What sense does that make?

Sorry for ranting and steering away from the original topic. But in defense of the TFD and almost all of us other volunteer FDs in Westchester - HOW THE F*** CAN WE EVER BE EXPECTED TO MEET OSHA/NFPA/ Other REGULATIONS WHEN THE PROGRAMS AREN'T OFFERED A FRACTION OF HOW OFTEN THEY SHOULD BE?

/Rant

[Bnechis 3,961]

one thing I did not realize is that Fire Departments do not need to provide Confined Space Rescue Services.....If an FD elects to provide these services, they need to provide their members with the appropriate training.....

This is only partal correct. The law requires that the employeer who's personnel go into a space must provide confined space rescue services. If the FD is a fire district and the district does not own any spaces then they do not have to provide the service. If they do own a space they either must provide the service or when the spaces are entered they must contract for standby services.

If its a municipal department and the municipality has confined spaces (they all do) then the municipality must provide Confined Space Rescue Services. It does not have to be in the FD, but it must exist.

OSHA requires the Confined Space Rescue Services must be onscene in a "timely fasion" and they define that based on CPR Time. Which they have stated means you need to be able to provide CPR to the victim within 4-6 minutes. If the team is not onscene during the entry, there is no way they can get to the victim in that time frame.

Since most municipalities send workers into confined spaces, there needs to be a Confined Space Rescue Services in the municipality.

The law only addresses workers who enter Confined Spaces as part of work. It does not address what happens when a kid goes exploring, with the only exception that the FD CAN NOT enter the space to perform a rescue/recovery unless they are a Confined Space Rescue Services.

If an FD elects not to provide this service, they need to know who is able to respond to provide this service in their coverage area. This FD must also advise their members that they are not trained to provide this service and are not to attempt this service. This FD's members should be provided with Confined Space Awareness training, which will provide their members with the information of what they can and cannot do at a Permit Required Confined Space.

Agreed. The department must also have a written Policy, stating that they do not go into a confined space.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

In Connecticut you can't even TAKE the Confined Space Technician class without already taking EMR or EMT AND taking the Rescue Technician class, unless they have something else worked out that I'm unaware of. And if they do, I've never seen a class advertised.

[Monty 35]

Providing members the basic Confined Space & Awareness Safety program is almost impossible in Westchester County. How often have you even seen this course offered at WCDES? NOT NEARLY ENOUGH!

/Rant

I'm pretty sure that there is no stipulation that this training has to be done by OFPC or any other particular entity. There are private organizations that will do it. there's probably something somewhere that states the qualifications needed to train but I'm sure someone that is a career educator, Fire Instructor 1 or better trained can complete the OSHA training.

Of course, you wont get any state certificates - but that's not what this is about.

In fact OFPC used to have a train the trainer class for annual Hazmat Ops refresher training - I know because I took it many years ago ....

[huzzie59 75]

Everbody can read the OSHA Standards and become "experts".

OSHA is really not that complicated. They create a lot of work/regulations/paper to create an awareness. The reasonable assumption is that when you have an awareness of the hazards, you will be able to be prepared to mitigate those hazards and perform your work safely.

Confined Spaces

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/confinedspaces/index.html

Non-Mandatory Appendix F -- Rescue Team or Rescue Service Evaluation Criteria

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9803

The way I read this -----if you do not go into a confined space, you do not need a rescue team.

[huzzie59 75]

For firefighting, what are the requirements to identify, specifically, the confined space hazards in our response areas?

Unless every confined space in every building is identified and planned for, no interior firefighting should take place?