Newburgh to lose 12 firefighters in 2011 budget

[JetPhoto 626]

A serious mistake has been made by city management. From what I understand they will now run with 1 & 1 with only a couple guys. This will force them to seriously rely on mutual aid as a back up attack team.

The city has no volunteers

City to lay off 12 firefighters

[antiquefirelt 994]

A serious mistake has been made by city management. From what I understand they will now run with 1 & 1 with only a couple guys. This will force them to seriously rely on mutual aid as a back up attack team.

The city has no volunteers

City to lay off 12 firefighters

How bad do you have to mismanage a City to end up with a one year tax increase of 69%? What suddenly came up that created this huge change? The article lost me on the impact of the $200K savings? What's the increase after the cuts?

Now when a business has a fire, the damage will be worse and the likelihood of the same business re-opening in Newburgh is far less, so the taxpayers lose again. This cycle only gets worse as more vacant properties invite crime and detract from home values and a positive business climate. So as services erode, the taxpayers lose more as businesses leave, their own property values drop, their taxes increase and the services they do pay for are far more limited in scope and efficiency. Recipe for restructure.

Edited November 23, 2010 by antiquefirelt

[ffp20 14]

How are the local volunteer depts handling this since they'll be called on more often to work in Newburgh? Enthusiastically or with reservations?

[64FFMJK 21]

How are the local volunteer depts handling this since they'll be called on more often to work in Newburgh? Enthusiastically or with reservations?

better question is how well equipped and manned to handle the rise in call volume especially daytime mid week?

[PEMO3 523]

Unfortunately these politicians do not realize that the money saved by these types of service cut backs will be easily eclipsed by the award paid out from just one wrongful death suit when the cut back in manpower proves to be a mitigating factor in the loss of life and property. Just curious, how many council members did they lay off to save money.

[firefighter36 52]

How are the local volunteer depts handling this since they'll be called on more often to work in Newburgh? Enthusiastically or with reservations?

Hopefully they handle it by sending the City a bill to recover the cost of their services....

[antiquefirelt 994]

I remember not long ago someone on here noted the VFD's were not going to enthusiastically help the City out? It'll be interesting. Quite often there are all too many vollies who are salivating to get more runs and M/A to a city is their dream come true, for a little while, then it quickly dries up. Our council forced us to run without an aerial for about 6 months, relying on the VFD next door, who all too quickly said Yes! After just two months they couldn't muster a turnout for alarms at night and the daytime it would roll with just a driver. The City gave in a rented us a Tower while our new one was being built.

[FD828 77]

Unfortunately these politicians do not realize that the money saved by these types of service cut backs will be easily eclipsed by the award paid out from just one wrongful death suit when the cut back in manpower proves to be a mitigating factor in the loss of life and property. Just curious, how many council members did they lay off to save money.

Does Newburgh have a minimum staffing level defined in their contract? What I mean is, the city lays off 12 guys, but the contract states "X" amount of FF's must be on duty at all times. So they have to hire back FF's on OT. So they save money here but spend it over there. Of course then they will blame the fire department for having so much overtime, forgetting they cut the staffing levels. Will they really save any money??? (That is of course there is language in the contract stating this.)

[antiquefirelt 994]

Does Newburgh have a minimum staffing level defined in their contract? What I mean is, the city lays off 12 guys, but the contract states "X" amount of FF's must be on duty at all times. So they have to hire back FF's on OT. So they save money here but spend it over there. Of course then they will blame the fire department for having so much overtime, forgetting they cut the staffing levels. Will they really save any money??? (That is of course there is language in the contract stating this.)

Not sure about different states, but many times monetary issues in a contract are non-binding. Therefore if the city cannot afford to staff the positions they can be cut and staffing is only required to be adjusted amongst remaining on duty staff. In many metro cities, this means browning out or shuttering houses to staff pieces. This way they maintain minimum staffing per unit, but not duty strength. The City basically says, "This is what you have to work with" and the Union and admin have to figure out how to make it work best for the remaining troops.

[dashield 61]

Does Newburgh have a minimum staffing level defined in their contract? What I mean is, the city lays off 12 guys, but the contract states "X" amount of FF's must be on duty at all times. So they have to hire back FF's on OT. So they save money here but spend it over there. Of course then they will blame the fire department for having so much overtime, forgetting they cut the staffing levels. Will they really save any money??? (That is of course there is language in the contract stating this.)

Currently their is no minimum manning clause in our contract. We are currently trying to negotiate a new contract which includes over 1 million dollars in concessions (which includes: salary cuts, schedule changes, loss of a couple of holidays, give back of HR time.....ect) If signed, the new contract will have a manning clause which would save the 12 guys.

As far as the volunteers....we have gotten the verbal commitment from numerous (of course not all) surrounding depts stating that they will not go into the city if the layoffs occur.

If anyone is hiring please let me know...

[50-65 205]

Currently their is no minimum manning clause in our contract. We are currently trying to negotiate a new contract which includes over 1 million dollars in concessions (which includes: salary cuts, schedule changes, loss of a couple of holidays, give back of HR time.....ect) If signed, the new contract will have a manning clause which would save the 12 guys.

As far as the volunteers....we have gotten the verbal commitment from numerous (of course not all) surrounding depts stating that they will not go into the city if the layoffs occur.

If anyone is hiring please let me know...

Are they still planning on closing Engine 3 house?

[dashield 61]

Are they still planning on closing Engine 3 house?

Yes......we will be going down to 1 & 1 with the closing of 3 Engine

[antiquefirelt 994]

Currently their is no minimum manning clause in our contract. We are currently trying to negotiate a new contract which includes over 1 million dollars in concessions (which includes: salary cuts, schedule changes, loss of a couple of holidays, give back of HR time.....ect) If signed, the new contract will have a manning clause which would save the 12 guys.

As far as the volunteers....we have gotten the verbal commitment from numerous (of course not all) surrounding depts stating that they will not go into the city if the layoffs occur.

If anyone is hiring please let me know...

Tough stuff, good luck Brother. Hopefully someone will recognize they are pulling the stopper completely out of the circling drain. Hopefully your legal counsel has reviewed the manning clause so that they cannot reneg on it by failing to fund positions in future years, which is the case in my state.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Currently their is no minimum manning clause in our contract. We are currently trying to negotiate a new contract which includes over 1 million dollars in concessions (which includes: salary cuts, schedule changes, loss of a couple of holidays, give back of HR time.....ect) If signed, the new contract will have a manning clause which would save the 12 guys.

As far as the volunteers....we have gotten the verbal commitment from numerous (of course not all) surrounding depts stating that they will not go into the city if the layoffs occur.

If anyone is hiring please let me know...

This is a really difficult situation the surrounding departments are put into as well. It would be very easy to say boycott going to the City if the layoffs occur. However, those who are still working there might need assistance. It would be devastating to find out that a brother firefighter died or was injured due to a department's refusal to respond because of a contract issue. I have quite a few lifelong friends in NFD and I sympathize with what they are going through but I wouldn't make a bad situation worse by not responding; it honestly puts the FF's lives at even more risk.

[firefighter36 52]

With the loss of an engine, what will happen to the department's ISO rating? Will insurance rates go up along with the taxes? If I owned a business in Newburgh, I'd sure be concerned....

[TSull 33]

Hopefully the surrounding volunteer departments will "do the right thing" and not respond into the City of Newburgh. To be called once in a awhile for mutual aid is one thing, but to be used in lieu of the city meeting it's obligations to the citizens/visitors of the city is criminal. I know some people are going to think it's great to go mutual aid into Newburgh and catch some "good fire duty" but that is not what you are there for. Hopefully the volunteers will say no, especially the volunteers who are career FF's in other municipalities, and Newburgh will be forced to address their own issues.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Hopefully the surrounding volunteer departments will "do the right thing" and not respond into the City of Newburgh.

This is a hard thing. "Doing the right thing" would likely be seen by the public as responding to the city? Flat out refusing will likely reveal how dangerous the City has allowed the situation to come, but only after great losses or injury. On the other hand, short of a current mutual aid agreement, these VFD's could respond and then bill the city? Let the City of Newburgh make the hard decisions. The VFD's could likely rescind current M/A agreements based on the drastic change in actual responses taxing their personnel and equipment.

While I wholeheartedly understand the sentiment of "doing the right thing" by not helping the City sink the firefighters, doing so will harm innocent citizens and end up with both the VFD's and the NFD Firefighters Union looking very bad.

All in all a terrible situation for all involved. Again I wonder how many years of mismanagement took place to have it get this bad? 69% tax increase in one year? Was this a loss of State Revenue sharing? Borrowing money to pay back borrowed money?

[jack10562 414]

If manpower staffing for the fire department is intentionally cut and they can no longer man their calls properly, expecting out of district departments to make up for their shortcomings is pure insanity.

Additionally they are unnecessarily putting the surrounding community at risk by stripping their neighbors of resources.

It is no longer mutual aid when it's only one way.

[lad12derff 283]

Is the city of Newburgh going to give mutual aid any longer to the towns that come into the city? I think we all know the answer to that question with only 1 and 1 in the city. So what kind of agreement will there be? Come to our city and catch some work and talk some crap to all your friends when you are done. We all know what should be done and unfortunatly the residents will learn the hard way and the brothers are going to take a greater beating in a city that sees quite a bit of work. good luck brothers!!!!!

[foreman1923 22]

serious question to whoever on here can answer.. what does the mayor of newburgh and the council make a year? and how is it legal that they can cut whatever they want and not touch there own salary

[firefighter36 52]

serious question to whoever on here can answer.. what does the mayor of newburgh and the council make a year? and how is it legal that they can cut whatever they want and not touch there own salary

The council and mayor appear to all be part-time. Searching their salaries, they make about $9000.00 each in 2009.... Like the old addage goes, you get what you pay for!

[Bnechis 3,961]

what does the mayor of newburgh and the council make a year? and how is it legal that they can cut whatever they want and not touch there own salary

Both Congress and the NYS Legislature have been doing it for years

[firebuff08 29]

At less than 5 square miles and a population of 28,000, anyplace else on earth except the Northeast, Newburgh would be just a neighborhood of a much larger municipality. The City of Newburgh is too small and too poor the be economically viable. The problem did not occur overnight. I have not lived in the Hudson Valley for more than 25 years, but when I did live there, Newburgh was about the poorest municipality around. Since then, there have been some efforts to revive the city but the demographics are all wrong. 26% of the population has an income below the poverty line. 25% of Newburgh's households have a female head and no male (Can you say un-wed mothers raising kids on welfare!). 46% of the poplulation is under the age of 24 and 9% is over the age of 65, so there are not enough working people to support city services. Like many other small cities in the Northeast that have become poverty pits, the situation is not going to get better anytime soon. You can not have boarded up buildings and vacant lots that don't pay taxes and expect to provide city services. With the fire load that exists in Newburgh, cutting back to 1 and 1 is insane, but does the City have any other choice. The money just isn't there to pay for it. Nerwbugh is BROKE!

[16fire5 693]

Newburgh had these staffing levels in the 80s and early 90s due to fiscal issued and layoffs. The change to day is 2 in/2 out. With 7 responding. 1 IC and 1 engine chauffeur and 1 truck chauffeur you are down to 4. 2 of the 4 must stay out side as the safety team. The department will be reduced to being able to send 2 members into standard working fires. This will not be an effective fire department. Some on here may disagree but the chaffeurs and the IC should not be part of the safety team. The city has made the decision to not provide fire protection and they will have to live with it. The fire officers should not unduly risk their members because the city put them in that position.

[firefighter36 52]

Some on here may disagree but the chaffeurs and the IC should not be part of the safety team.

If my memory serves me correctly, NYS PESH prohibits the pump operator from being a part of the safety team... Not sure about the others, but logic dictates that ICs and Chauffeurs have enough responsibilities at a scene as well, besides being a safety team.

[ffp20 14]

Why should the taxpayers in Newburghs surrounding districts pay their taxes to be used to subsidize fire protection in the city?

[jack10562 414]

Why should the taxpayers in Newburghs surrounding districts pay their taxes to be used to subsidize fire protection in the city?

They shouldn't . And after the first bread and butter room-and-contents fire that goes mutual aid because of inadequate staffing, the taxpayers should be screaming.

The Union needs to take out a full page newspaper ad, and get the media in on this, to highlight the dangers now facing residents and businesses alike. Nevermind the danger to the guy on the nob or the one doing a primary search for victims in a fire.

[INIT915 1,119]

They shouldn't . And after the first bread and butter room-and-contents fire that goes mutual aid because of inadequate staffing, the taxpayers should be screaming.

The Union needs to take out a full page newspaper ad, and get the media in on this, to highlight the dangers now facing residents and businesses alike. Nevermind the danger to the guy on the nob or the one doing a primary search for victims in a fire.

That's the problem. Residents of a city like Newburgh don't think like us. They are less worried about staffing and equipment, and instead are focused on a 69% tax hike with the layoffs, and probably a 100% tax hike without the layoffs. I honestly don't think Newburghians will "screaming" if the City FD has to call in M/A. First, I'm not even sure they'll notice, and second, if they do know, I doubt they'll care.

Newburgh is different in demographics from a lot of locales where the citizens may be more aware of such happenings, and where they are aware, may seek to force change on the part of the city.

The other problem with Newburgh is, this trend of foreclosures and vacancies is sure to only increase every year. The irony behind all this is, the 69% tax increase will probably force more residents and businesses out of the city, forcing more layoffs next year.

Newburgh City government better act fact and better act decisively and come up with a plan, or they'll end up like some cities that never were able to come back from the brink.

Newburgh is even broaching dissolution, which, I can only assume will classify the city as an unincorporated area of the County, forcing the County to come up with a plan.

"Newburgh 2020" is their latest plan, and in all honesty, possibly their last hope. Newburgh 2020

[38ff 250]

Anyone know how many calls the City of Newburgh has, and how many are workers?

[16fire5 693]

Anyone know how many calls the City of Newburgh has, and how many are workers?

2,321 runs in the first 9 months of the year. The do not normally do EMS. In the 80s they were good for over 100 2nd alarms a year. These days I'm guessing 40-50.