Why Does Most Exhaust Systems Come Out The Side?

[x635 4,066]

I'm wonder why so many fire apparatus exhaust systems come out the side, creating a carbon monoxide incident around them, And, with the new 2010 EPA requirments, even more superheated exhuasts.

If they work for dump trucks and over the road trucks, why not fire apparatus?

Someone here must know the logic to this....I know Houston (pictured below) spec'd top exhausts for a while there.

(Sorry for the crappy photo, taken by me of Houston FD Engine 49)

[38ff 250]

It keeps the exhaust away from the pump operator????

[Res1cueLT 20]

So you can thaw frozen couplings......

[newsbuff 286]

Hard to have an exhaust capture system in the bay if its up like that.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

It also a lot more in the way there. If you are going to be repacking a cross lay, waningt an apparatus mounted body light, returning the booster and height restrictions are all problems as could it be getting in the way of the master stream, getting in the way of the aerial device etc etc, the list could actually be quite extensive all things considered...

Edited November 23, 2010 by bvfdjc316

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Sorry I couldn't help myself. 36,000 horsepower, 7.8 second quarter mile, 206 mph, THE fastest truck in the world, and the exhaust comes out everywhere as the cameraman found out.

Youtube credit: kipkay

[Arrowxt 8]

Actually what you see in your photo is going to be very difficult to achieve in the future. As the 2010 EPA is an enhanced version from 2007 the distance from the turbo to the first containment vessel has been increased and some engine manufacturers are going to have a second containment vessel where at that point there will be an injection of liquid urea. Most designs now have a “turn back” that sends the exhaust back towards the front of the apparatus after it passes thru the first vessel and then sends it into the second. That vessel is located on the LS of the apparatus and then will turn back towards the rear and will have to cross back under the drive train and exit to the RS. This will be common on units with pumps, rescues and trucks can run both down the RS. The distance cannot be manipulated from what the manufacturer mandates. That’s with the urea system, I am not sure what the manufacturers that are using the dual EGR technology are able to do, but I think they have their limitations as well. The days of the “stack” may be over. If you want to reroute the exhaust gas you can still use the air operated “dump” or reroute valve, but there is going to be an extensive amount of piping involved.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Another forehead-slapper, think about extended times on scenes, and, positioning of the apparatus, you may have a patient backboarded, laying near the exhaust pipe of a rig unintentionally.

I know Hughsonville had a really great option/device for this in their Rescue. An exhaust diverter. flip a switch, and the exhaust routes elsewhere!

http://www.emtbravo.com/hugh/HughsonvilleRescue.html

[Ladder44 73]

maybe looks??

[IzzyEng4 427]

Go back to the days of old.....no mufflers!!!

[JackEMT 77]

I have know knowledge but I suspect two things, dollars and space.

It cost money to run pipes the length of a vehicle.

If you run pipes the length of the vehicle, you have to give up storage or other space (fuel tank, etc).

[provfd 49]

Hard to have an exhaust capture system in the bay if its up like that.

There are two ways I've seen the capture on stacks...on the stack as well as off a diverter at the bottom elbow. In the capture mode a flapper closes off the stack. It actually works out nicely because the driver has a switch to divert the flow and you can run open exhaust.

[x635 4,066]

I know Hughsonville had a really great option/device for this in their Rescue. An exhaust diverter. flip a switch, and the exhaust routes elsewhere!

Good call, Nate! I forgot about that! One of the cooler innovations I've seen, and I wonder why more departments don't use it. Cheif Kramer showed me how it works, very neat!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Good call, Nate! I forgot about that! One of the cooler innovations I've seen, and I wonder why more departments don't use it. Cheif Kramer showed me how it works, very neat!

Other than the reason listed for hooking up to exhust capture, why would you need to divert the exhaust and what problems can this creat?

[x635 4,066]

Other than the reason listed for hooking up to exhust capture, why would you need to divert the exhaust and what problems can this creat?

If you're working with tools or out of a compartment on one side of the rescue, it can switch it to the other side.

[mfc2257 464]

There are two ways I've seen the capture on stacks...on the stack as well as off a diverter at the bottom elbow. In the capture mode a flapper closes off the stack. It actually works out nicely because the driver has a switch to divert the flow and you can run open exhaust.

Millwood has an in the ceiling setup for the twin big stacks on T-15 at station 2 for anyone who would like to see such a system.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

The new Engine 58 went vertical !

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Good call, Nate! I forgot about that! One of the cooler innovations I've seen, and I wonder why more departments don't use it. Cheif Kramer showed me how it works, very neat!

$$$$$$$ - Leaves more money for bells and whistles. I commend Hughsonville for thinking outside the box!

Other than the reason listed for hooking up to exhust capture, why would you need to divert the exhaust and what problems can this creat?

If you're working with tools or out of a compartment on one side of the rescue, it can switch it to the other side.

Bnechis, I am not sure if you meant with a mechanical diverter, such as the Hughsonville Rescue, or, if you mean making an upright stack vs. a lower-level exhaust pipe. I have seen both types able to hook up to exhaust capture devices.

[provfd 49]

And don't forget Noroton Height's fleet of CF's while we are talking about exhaust placement - they take their stacks out of the middle of the truck between the body and cab. Looks great, keeps everything up and away and in most cases no danger of grabbing something hot.

[TCD0415 26]

We opted to go with the vertical exhaust on our new rescue. The main reason was, with the new "environmentally friendly" engines, something called a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) is added into the system. It is something like a catalytic converter, only on a larger scale. It regularly goes into a "Regeneration Mode" where the rig goes into high idle and a small amount of fuel is injected into it to clean it out. Kinda like an afterburner on a jet. When this is happening the exhaust temp can rise to over 600 degrees as it exits the system. Our thought process was to keep it up and out of the way so nobody could possibly get burned.

Here is a link about DPF's and Regeneration if interested.

DPF Regeneration and Cleaning

We also are having our existing exhaust capture system modified next week to accommodate the vertical exhaust. A special adapter on the exhaust pipe mates with an overhead receiver to accomplish this.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Good call, Nate! I forgot about that! One of the cooler innovations I've seen, and I wonder why more departments don't use it. Cheif Kramer showed me how it works, very neat!

Yorktown has this as well on our rescue. Very simple design, and its great for car accidents where you have patients laying next to your rigs. I'm surprised more ambulances haven't taken to this idea yet.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Yorktown has this as well on our rescue. Very simple design, and its great for car accidents where you have patients laying next to your rigs. I'm surprised more ambulances haven't taken to this idea yet.

Interesting to hear, before Hughsonville had this, I had never even heard of it, and, now that this discussion has sparked some talk on it, you are only the second person that I have heard of that I PERSONALLY have heard of with it.

[50-65 205]

Yorktown has this as well on our rescue. Very simple design, and its great for car accidents where you have patients laying next to your rigs. I'm surprised more ambulances haven't taken to this idea yet.

Rather spend who knows how much $$ on another toy, I mean tool, what about NOT placing patients next to the exhaust or apparatus placement?

The issue with the exhaust capture systems that few have ever mentioned is the potential for engine damage caused by drawing cold air through a hot engine.

On the other hand, the EPA regulations have served to mainly run up production costs, maintenance costs, fuel costs, down time, etc.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Rather spend who knows how much $ on another toy, I mean tool, what about NOT placing patients next to the exhaust or apparatus placement?

The issue with the exhaust capture systems that few have ever mentioned is the potential for engine damage caused by drawing cold air through a hot engine.

On the other hand, the EPA regulations have served to mainly run up production costs, maintenance costs, fuel costs, down time, etc.

Its not just for saving the patient from inhaling CO. Sometimes at the scene of an accident the only way to place your apparatus is next to grass or dry tinder. With the new regeneration bull that everyone is going to have to put up with, you'll find that the temperatures exceed ridiculous levels at the exhaust tip. When the regeneration kicks in, it gets hot enough to almost burn the pavement, let alone spark a brush fire so being able to switch from the left side, to the right side is essential in keeping the side of the highway from catching fire.

[Atv300 69]

I hope everyone specing a rig with regen makes sure the is an off switch at least in the cab maybe even on the rig some where else city buses do this. Also I don't know for certin but I am sure there is some sort of safty interlock that dose not alow the regen to happen in pump since the motor has to go though cycles of rpms and different loads. I know some trucks come with a manual switch so be proactive whent the light starts coming on take the 30mins and park it in you lot away from everything and run it.

[Atv300 69]

Also a word of warning the more gadgets you add the more likely of a failure and out of service time diverters and other devices may cause more headaches.