Fire Brigade Question

[Guest 29-Indigo]

After hearing about the recent incident at Indian Point, it made me wonder. This is the 2nd time I know of when the Verplanck & Buchanan Fire Departments were dispatched for fires here, only to be denied access. I understand the high security issues, but I have a question for all complexes with an on site fire brigade.

If your FD is dispatched to a call, whether it's a fire, accident or alarm, at a site with a fire brigade, and that brigade says you can cancel or it's false - do you have any obligation to respond? I'm trying to say that let's assume Department A is dispatched to ABC Nuclear for a car fire, and on the way there the Fire Brigade Chief says you can cancel - DO YOU? Or do you have an obligation to still verify the call?

Thanks for your answers!

[Alpinerunner 61]

I can't speaking with any inside knowledge on this, but it seems the usual protocol for a mutual aid (or even multi-engine response like a box alarm) would apply, which is that the first due engine calls the shots. As long as at least one engine is ON SCENE they can certainly cancel other units if they can handle

[JohnnyOV 2]

The fire district is responsible for all alarms that it is dispatched to in its district. I know for Yorktown, the TJ Watson Research Facility has its own Incipient Fire Brigade, Confined Space Rescue Team, Emergency Medical Team, and HazMat team. They respond to false alarms daily and are a great resource for the site.

In the fire side, they have their own control center which monitors all alarm activity, and has its own internal version of a E911 system and dispatch personnel accordingly. For a single head activation, or single point of alarm, other then a phone call of active fire, 2-3 members are sent on the assignment. Their protocol for anything more then a single head, 2 or more points of activation, is to page the team out for a full assignment, stage at the nearest fire cart locations, and then mitigate the incident.

Active fires will bring in a fire department response through a direct line from the control center to 60-Control. We will not cancel our response once initiated unless one of our own units is on scene, strictly as a CYA for the district.

[Bnechis 3,961]

....but I have a question for all complexes with an on site fire brigade.

If your FD is dispatched to a call, whether it's a fire, accident or alarm, at a site with a fire brigade, and that brigade says you can cancel or it's false - do you have any obligation to respond?........ on the way there the Fire Brigade Chief says you can cancel - DO YOU? Or do you have an obligation to still verify the call?

First, you need to classify a "Fire Brigade" under OSHA 29CFR 1910.156 there are two types of brigades: am Incipient Fire Brigade and an "interior" Fire Brigade. The 1st has no PPE and basically can only attack an incipient fire with extingushers (and the training is at that basic a level). The other has turnouts, SCBA and other firefighting equipment plus the training to use it. They may also operate fire apparatus (consider the grasslands brigade).

Most hospitals run Incipient Fire Brigades and most FD's will continue responding in that case. The fire brigades at many industrial plants may have more capability than most local FD's. The Fire Brigade at the Exxon Bayway Refinery in Linden NJ has more trained firefighters and more apparatus than at least 50 FD's in Westchester. I think the local FD in a case like that would follow the brigades lead.

Another way to look at this: How many depts. will cancel when the local Police Dept. says its a false alarm? Police officers are generally trained to the Incipient Fire Brigade level. Many depts will not, though they may slow it down a little.

[Monty 35]

I vaguely remember something from some SEMO or NIMS training that Nuclear facilities are the only (or maybe one of very few) facilities that are exempt from local jurisdiction control. Maybe defense facilities as well? Would they let in a lcoal FD to a secure area?

I understand the questions being asked. Maybe someone with more information can clarify?

Also, Indian Point is different from the VA, different from Metro North and different again from a public company like GE. I'm sure each has their own set of rules .....

Edited November 12, 2010 by Monty

[helicopper 1,050]

The fire district is responsible for all alarms that it is dispatched to in its district.

The responsibility is derived from statutory authority. Where is the statute that describes this? Are there applicable exclusions (such as nuclear power plants or correctional facilities)?

We can speculate all day long but somewhere it is in the law...

[Lthmh13 3]

With the case of the Entergy Fire Brigade, they are interior qualified and I believe they have at least 5 brigade members on site at all times (correct me someone if I am wrong!). My position with rspect to IP is that while they are located in the Village of Buchanan they fall within the Verplanck Fire District,pay taxes and we are ultimately responsible for incidents there. Their on site fire brigade (and I was not there for this call) handled the fire and no "external" apparatus were needed at the incident site. Eventually within 10 minutes after arriving the Chief was escorted to the fire site to evaluate the incident site and was briefed about the incident (but only after he became vocal and this has happened before). All Verplanck fire apparatus remained at the gate. As for security, all of our guys and girls are badged to facilitate access to the site. Of course, our apparatus would still have to be screened by security and with any incident fire or ems, we are escorted by security.

With respect to Buchanan FD's response (someone said something about this), this came in as a structure fire, not a transformer fire which it turned out to be. We have a tri-village response for structure fires which includes Montrose FD and Buchanan. The primary agency responds to the scene and if additional equipment/personnel is needed, the other two departments are already in their respective quarters with their crews ready for assignment.

I tried answering or touching upon questions in everyone's posts. Better communication and getting the FD OIC to the site in a timely manner is key here.