Fire Trucks Equipped With Cameras

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Does anyone know of any departments that have outwards facing cameras in or on the fronts of their apparatus? I know most law enforcement vehicles have this to have video surveillance at traffic stops, etc. It seems to me like this would not be a bad idea for fire trucks. These cameras could record video while responding to calls and in the event of an accident, could provide valuable information for the court. I know that a lot of intersections have cameras at them but they do not often give a good angle and often times do not allow you to see the color os the traffic lights. They also often times are not in working order. In cab cameras on fire trucks or ambulances would give show the color of the lights, what is happening at intersections and show exactly what the driver/crew is seeing.

I am just curious as to why the FD's and EMS agencies have not adapted this from LE agencies. Thanks in advance for any insight...

Edited November 9, 2010 by PFDRes47cue

[Alpinerunner 61]

It would definitely be a benefit, but probably not worth the cost. LE uses forward facing cameras for many more reason than to prove they were right or wrong if involved in an MVA, while this would likely be the only benefit to a fire apparatus. Add that to the fact that fire trucks get in accidents much less frequently than police cars and I don't think it's worth it.

[helicopper 1,050]

Fire departments spend how much money on their apparatus and these cameras are not worth the cost? Next time you see a car service vehicle or limo take a look in the window, many are being equipped with cameras to protect the owners/operators from liability so the cost can't be that prohibitive. Given the liability associated with emergency response and the potential for litigation, it would be prudent to have them. It also would allow for QI/QA and for driver training, a topic that is entirely too rare in the emergency services.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Agreed 100% I think that these videos could really help with QA/QI which really needs to be a larger focus. There are to many drivers out there that make dangerous or risky choices too often...and often timed the personnel in the truck won't speak up to the person or a Chief. These videos would be very beneficial and perhaps help to keep unworthy people from behind the wheel.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Why would they be so useful in fire apparatus? More often than not it would show a rig going through a red signal, not the other way around. Attorneys would use them against all of you. One reason I could see it being used is to show the apparatus operator didn't come to a COMPLETE stop (maybe slowed to 2-3 mph). An operator doing his/her best to respond to an alarm of fire shouldn't have a camera there to "catch" them, and that's exactly how they would be used. I vote no. Just my opinion.

[Bnechis 3,961]

As a test we equipped L-12 with a forward facing camera (see picture below). Unfortinatly due to budget cutbacks we will not be able to outfit any other vehicles at this time.

[INIT915 1,119]

It would definitely be a benefit, but probably not worth the cost. LE uses forward facing cameras for many more reason than to prove they were right or wrong if involved in an MVA, while this would likely be the only benefit to a fire apparatus. Add that to the fact that fire trucks get in accidents much less frequently than police cars and I don't think it's worth it.

Accounting for "accidents per mile driven", assuming some patrol cars put on the same number of miles in one 8 or 12 hour tour that some fire apparatus theoretically put on in one year, do Patrol cars really get into more accidents?

[Guest ffjay376]

Why would they be so useful in fire apparatus? More often than not it would show a rig going through a red signal, not the other way around. Attorneys would use them against all of you. One reason I could see it being used is to show the apparatus operator didn't come to a COMPLETE stop (maybe slowed to 2-3 mph). An operator doing his/her best to respond to an alarm of fire shouldn't have a camera there to "catch" them, and that's exactly how they would be used. I vote no. Just my opinion.

This is when you have to question who's signed off to drive apparatus. You have to have trust in your dept. Driver training certification and process. This is when you drum in to every new drivers head that they could possibly harm or kill people if the don't do the right thing. Yes could it hurt us absolutely but could it aid us in the other hand yes. It could aid FID to see what fire conditions were apon arrivle. It could also show where most of the fire at that time is concentrated. It would take a pro and cons list to actually see if it would be worth the money and aggravation.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

This is when you have to question who's signed off to drive apparatus. You have to have trust in your dept. Driver training certification and process. This is when you drum in to every new drivers head that they could possibly harm or kill people if the don't do the right thing. Yes could it hurt us absolutely but could it aid us in the other hand yes. It could aid FID to see what fire conditions were apon arrivle. It could also show where most of the fire at that time is concentrated. It would take a pro and cons list to actually see if it would be worth the money and aggravation.

It could also be of use at car accidents and car fires. It can be used to review extrication and stabilization techniques, and used to review firefighting techniques at car fires. It could also help when a patient claims something was done wrong to them when being cared for. There are definitely both pros and cons for the topic.

[tbendick 27]

NYC put some drive cams in the rigs as a test. These were small devices that saved the videos to a memory stick and would only keep x amount of video pre and post event. The events were triggerd by G force or a button on the cam and it also taped inside and out.

On the ambulances it would save the videos every time someone shut the back door, mainly caught people sleeping.

After they installed them response times went threw the roof for the affected units due to the big brother watching and fear of charges for any little infraction.

So they removed them pretty quickly.

[Guest ffjay376]

I think ultimately it would be used a enforcement tool to make sure people were doing what they should be doing and not breaking any rules.

Edited November 10, 2010 by ffjay376

[PFDRes47cue 653]

NYC put some drive cams in the rigs as a test. These were small devices that saved the videos to a memory stick and would only keep x amount of video pre and post event. The events were triggerd by G force or a button on the cam and it also taped inside and out.

On the ambulances it would save the videos every time someone shut the back door, mainly caught people sleeping.

After they installed them response times went threw the roof for the affected units due to the big brother watching and fear of charges for any little infraction.

So they removed them pretty quickly.

How much did the response times change? Perhaps the slightly slower response time is worth the extra safety measures and possibility of having solid evidence in court. I was more so referring to the cameras images being pulled out when needed, not being monitored frequently. I also specifically meant outward facing cameras. I can see how inward facing cameras could pose an issue to personnel privacy and can catch them doing minor infractions such as sleeping on the job. However, should you be sleeping on the job? Probably not...however, I know there are times when everyone needs and does take a nap.

If the response times were only lowered slightly then I do not see it as a very big negative when you weigh in the possible positives of having this footage. Also, do most of the calls we are responding to require the quicker response? Or are we just sick of hearing the public complain? Since there is such a high volume of "bulls***" calls in the emergency service field today, most accidents are happening responding to the "bs" calls. Since this is the case, would a slight increase in response time due to increased safety and awareness or risk taking be a terrible thing?

[ny10570 745]

It could also be of use at car accidents and car fires. It can be used to review extrication and stabilization techniques, and used to review firefighting techniques at car fires. It could also help when a patient claims something was done wrong to them when being cared for. There are definitely both pros and cons for the topic.

Not going to be much help there since your closest vehicles should be blocking the scene and not facing it. Suits due to care provided are very infrequent and would be better prevented with personal recording systems.

NYS laws are very clear when it comes to emergency vehicle operations. We are usually at fault since we are to be responding with due reguard. Anyone who gets hit by an emergency vehicle unless grossly culpable will win in civil court. So where's the benefit of the dash cams? I have family all over NYC and I don't want cops, ff, or EMTs slowing down for fear of being disciplined by their commanding officers. What's an acceptable delay? Find a fire and you're still 4.5 minutes from the first apparatus getting on scene. Stop breathing on any street corner and you're looking at an average of more than 5 minutes till someone gets to your address, then they have to find you. I can't hold my breath for long enough to survive either of those. If they're getting into accidents train them better or more frequently. Don't babysit them.