Should Fire Dept. post videos ?

[Guest ffjay376]

Should fire departments be posting videos of there response to alarms and while there operating at scenes. Is there any pros and cons to doing so?

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I do not see a problem with this as long as the video is not showing any out of control responses or responses that are over the top. It is important to remember that anyone can see these videos and they can often fall into the hands of the wrong people. The same goes for posting pictures of suspicious fires. If a department wants to post videos of "proper" responses to incidents then I do not see much of a problem. However, I have watched a lot of response videos that are not utilizing a "proper" response. I know we have all seen them...the fire truck that goes onto two wheels when it approaches the scene of a house fire with no entrapment, or the very popular response of the second due engine that is on the wrong side of the road and median going head on with every car. These put the departments at risk for legal action. As long as the departments are smart about the videos they post, I feel they can be a useful tool for viewers.

On another note, I feel there are way to many POV response videos up. These often show FF's responding erratically in their POV vehicle to either the scene or the firehouse. I do not feel that FF's or EMT's for that matter should be posting videos of them responding dangerously to calls. Departments should have rules against this. Some of these videos make me wonder how we get defensive when the citizens call the station and complain about FF's or EMT's responding to calls. It is not worth risking life and injury for a residential or commercial alarm...I know every-once in a while one of these is an actually fire but wait until your updated to put a rush on your response. The same goes for minor MVA's where you are called for traffic control or a small fluid spill...these are not emergencies and do not require risking lives to get to the incident.

The real issue is fire departments and personnel posting videos or pictures that show the victims or patients, dead or alive. This is not right and is disrespectful to the parties involved and their families. I don't think anyone would want there dead family members becoming part of an on-scene photo shoot. But that is a topic for another time and another thread...

Edited November 9, 2010 by PFDRes47cue

[Medic5274 45]

I do not see a problem with this as long as the video is not showing any out of control responses or responses that are over the top. It is important to remember that anyone can see these videos and they can often fall into the hands of the wrong people. The same goes for posting pictures of suspicious fires. If a department wants to post videos of "proper" responses to incidents then I do not see much of a problem. However, I have watched a lot of response videos that are not utilizing a "proper" response. I know we have all seen them...the fire truck that goes onto two wheels when it approaches the scene of a house fire with no entrapment, or the very popular response of the second due engine that is on the wrong side of the road and median going head on with every car. These put the departments at risk for legal action. As long as the departments are smart about the videos they post, I feel they can be a useful tool for viewers.

On another note, I feel there are way to many POV response videos up. These often show FF's responding erratically in their POV vehicle to either the scene or the firehouse. I do not feel that FF's or EMT's for that matter should be posting videos of them responding dangerously to calls. Departments should have rules against this. Some of these videos make me wonder how we get defensive when the citizens call the station and complain about FF's or EMT's responding to calls. It is not worth risking life and injury for a residential or commercial alarm...I know every-once in a while one of these is an actually fire but wait until your updated to put a rush on your response. The same goes for minor MVA's where you are called for traffic control or a small fluid spill...these are not emergencies and do not require risking lives to get to the incident.

The real issue is fire departments and personnel posting videos or pictures that show the victims or patients, dead or alive. This is not right and is disrespectful to the parties involved and their families. I don't think anyone would want there dead family members becoming part of an on-scene photo shoot. But that is a topic for another time and another thread...

In this litigious society we live in I don't think posting any pictures of fireground operations would be appreciated by the legal community that might have to defend the Chief, the department, municipality , fire district or individual firefighter involved in a lawsuit. You never know what angle people may come after the fire department from. They might want to go after them directly for some supposed malfeasance or they might want to use the photos to help settle a fire insurance dispute.

With people suing departments daily you just never know how your pictures may come back to haunt you. Lets not supply people with ammunition. We have no control over the posting of photos by others outside the department but we can minimize our own impact on our departments. I believe it should be a policy of the department to restrict members from posting pictures of their operations. Its sad we can't share experiences and possible training issues but you just never know who is looking to screw you.

[Guest ffjay376]

I agree with both of you and looking at some of the POV response videos it is outrageous how these people are driveing. Its my person belief that there should be guidelines set for the people videotape. I also belive that the emergency response community as a hole can learn a lot from other peoples videos. Regrettably some times its from there mistakes, mostly from there triumphs.

[JM15 386]

There are big differences in videos. First, there is "recruitment" videos. Recruitment videos can be a good way to show the people and communities you serve who you are and what you are doing and showing the need for volunteers and assistance. These videos can even "inspire" people to join or at least look into how they can help. On the other hand there are "buff" movies which are geared mainly towards other Firefighters or responders. Most of these videos are made to show off the "good" calls that you've had recently. The recruitment videos done right can be a valuable resource.

[Guest ffjay376]

I was leaning more tord posting first hand videos on the web but those videos are definitely a good way for fire departments to get good exposure. Recruiting is most probly one of those thing that has fell by the waist side in the fire service.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

All department related internet postings should be approved first by the chief or Board of Directors/Commissioners and potentially the departments/districts legal advisor. This includes department websites, facebook, myspace, youtube, FF close calls, Vent-Enter-Search, EMT-Bravo etc...

Edited November 9, 2010 by bvfdjc316

[JM15 386]

All department related internet postings should be approved first by the chief or Board of Directors/Commissioners and potentially the departments/districts legal advisor. This includes department websites, facebook, myspace, youtube, FF close calls, Vent-Enter-Search, EMT-Bravo etc...

I don't really see how you can enforce that in this age of social media. Especially with the censorship or "big brother" claims that would be made. So if I wanted to "tweet" I'm at the firehouse I should call the department's lawyer?

[JBE 328]

I think any video should be run past the chief of department before posting anywhere. Let the chief have the final say on what they deem appropriate to show to the public.

[Medic5274 45]

I don't really see how you can enforce that in this age of social media. Especially with the censorship or "big brother" claims that would be made. So if I wanted to "tweet" I'm at the firehouse I should call the department's lawyer?

You enforce it by having a strong command structure that enforces the rules of the department. You instill in your membership the rules of your department and you explain that no one is trying to censor anyone but trying to protect them and the department. All members have to realize that all their actions related to the fire department are under constant srutiny and the Chief and legal console have the right to restrict actions that could potentially jepardize the department or put them in a situation where they have to defend a certain action. Just look how every photo posted on EMT Bravo is scrutinized by the masses. Everyone has a different slant on what the picture is portraying both good and bad or appropriate tactics vs inapproriate tactics.

When you join a fire department you are committing to an organization that is better than one indivdual and survives because of an uncompromised belief in the department and the membership. In a para military structure like the fire department you do what is best for the department. Restricting the posting of fire scene photos to prevent legal action is justified.

I went through a 7 year protracted legal challenge with a plaintiff who tried to support his legal challenge with fire ground photos so I speak from experience on the danger of posting photos. (Legal challenges against the fire department were quickly thrown out but we were dragged into a battle between the building owner and tenants who both used fire scene photos to push their arguements) Members who don't understand the legal ramifications photos can have on your department really need to be brought up to speed on what can happen. Believe me, you don't want to go through the multi year legal nightmare I was dragged into just because some member feels it is ok to post photos. If members don't think this is right then their prorities in relationship to the fire department need to be addressed immediately.

[FFMedic62 0]

I am reading this thread chuckling a little at the irony of this thread on this website in particular. I think post pictures and videos can be a valuable recruiting/public relations tool. That being said careful selection of pictures and footage is very important. A few years ago my department posted a video that included a POV response nothing was done wrong in the video and actually the response was quite professional and safe however the driver was not aware the rear seat rider was filming and asked the footage be removed ultimately the video was edited and reposted on our web site but a new department policy was created that requires permission of the both the board of commissioners and the apparatus operator. My departments web site has a number of responsible members who have final say in content published on our web site a very good idea to have a few people with good discretion saying what sees the light of day on your departments web site. There is however no control over what happens when the public is involved every fire i have been to has its share of buffs and dog walkers taking pictures and video that the department has no control over. So the long and short of it is do the right thing and you have little to worry about do the wrong thing wind up on firefighter close calls or the witness stand

[xfirefighter484x 234]

If things are channeled through appropriate means, i.e. if a FD has a PIO, and it is released for public knowledge/benefit, or as a "promotional" item, then yes. Such if said videos were recorded from a "dash-cam" as was discussed in another thread here, versus a member who records something on a personal recording device, and posts it of his/her own accord (without clearance from their FD), then I would not say it might not be appropriate.

[calhobs 110]

Lets put a twist on this, lets say firefighter or EMT X & Y have been complaning about firefighter Z's driving skills. This has been going on for months. But we have all heard dont worry he has been around a long time he or she knows what they are doing, or he or she was just past as a driver they will learn, etc. Meanwhile firefighter or EMT X &Y are concerned that nothing is being done about Y. SO for fear of thier saftey and memebers saftey and the saftey of the comminity the post a video of the unsafe habits of driver Y on some social network they belong to. There defense is we are worried about public saftey when this person drives and since no one acted on it they went public for fear of the publics saftey.

[Guest ffjay376]

Lets put a twist on this, lets say firefighter or EMT X & Y have been complaning about firefighter Z's driving skills. This has been going on for months. But we have all heard dont worry he has been around a long time he or she knows what they are doing, or he or she was just past as a driver they will learn, etc. Meanwhile firefighter or EMT X &Y are concerned that nothing is being done about Y. SO for fear of thier saftey and memebers saftey and the saftey of the comminity the post a video of the unsafe habits of driver Y on some social network they belong to. There defense is we are worried about public saftey when this person drives and since no one acted on it they went public for fear of the publics saftey.

Well in this case emt x and y don't understand what damage they could potentially be doing to there fire dept. It would take a pritty oblivious person to not understand what they could be starting from there actions.

[calhobs 110]

Well in this case emt x and y don't understand what damage they could potentially be doing to there fire dept. It would take a pritty oblivious person to not understand what they could be starting from there actions.

Maybe saving a life, what if driver Z kills someone,with numorus complants about their driving, I think after killing someone the FD would be in some serious stuff from that action. What would you rather deal with. This is something that is going to happen sooner or later, if it hasnt happend somewhere already.

I think we are all in agreement people will video and take pictures of everything now, it does not have to be a first responder every joe shmoo has a video phone now, there is alot of money to be made in pictures and videos that the news will pay for. The days of protecting the Dept just for the sake of it looking bad is gone. I think we should be handling problems as such from the get go. IMO too much is let go and buried under the carpet, handle it from the start and you dont have to worry whats posted online what pictures are going on and what videos are make rounds.

[firebuff860 54]

My guess would be no good will be gained by posting video from a scene on a social network site other than to brag what a big job it was or what a good job they did. You either get a salary or volunteer to do it, why brag. In today's litigious world, that video may cost you your job or your home.

Do you think it's worth it?

If you want to film scenes and keep them in house for training should be ok, but putting them on the internet for all to see in the end is a no win situation in my opinion.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

My guess would be no good will be gained by posting video from a scene on a social network site other than to brag what a big job it was or what a good job they did. You either get a salary or volunteer to do it, why brag. In today's litigious world, that video may cost you your job or your home.

Do you think it's worth it?

If you want to film scenes and keep them in house for training should be ok, but putting them on the internet for all to see in the end is a no win situation in my opinion.

Does the same apply to pictures in your opinion?