NYS Blue Light Law Amendment Excludes EMS Vehicles

[trauma74 111]

Below is the ammendment to the NYS VTL regarding Blue Lights on the rear of FD Vehicles, EMS vehicles were left out of the ammendment. FD vehicles in NYS are now permitted to have rear facing blue lights. No mention of EMS vehicles anywhere...................

§ 375 (41). Colored and flashing lights.

4. Blue light.

b. In addition to the red and white lights authorized to be displayed pursuant to paragraph two of this subdivision, one or more blue lights or combination blue and red lights or combination blue, red and white lights may be affixed to a police vehicle and fire vehicle, provided that such blue light or lights shall be displayed on a police vehicle and fire vehicle for rear projection only. In the event that the trunk or rear gate of a police vehicle and fire vehicle obstructs or diminishes the visibility of other emergency lighting on such vehicles, a blue light may be affixed to and displayed from the trunk, rear gate or interior of such vehicles. Such lights may be displayed on a police vehicle and fire vehicle when such vehicles are engaged in an emergency operation. Nothing contained in this subparagraph shall be deemed to authorize the use of blue lights on police vehicles and fire vehicles unless such vehicles also display one or more red or combination red and white lights as otherwise authorized in this subdivision.

[NWFDMedic 58]

I would imagine that FD EMS vehicles would be covered under this law. However, non-FD EMS agencies would be in violation of the law if they had blue lights on their vehicles. I've seen a couple of EMS vehicles in the area operating with illegal lighting.

Below is the ammendment to the NYS VTL regarding Blue Lights on the rear of FD Vehicles, EMS vehicles were left out of the ammendment. FD vehicles in NYS are now permitted to have rear facing blue lights. No mention of EMS vehicles anywhere...................

§ 375 (41). Colored and flashing lights.

4. Blue light.

b. In addition to the red and white lights authorized to be displayed pursuant to paragraph two of this subdivision, one or more blue lights or combination blue and red lights or combination blue, red and white lights may be affixed to a police vehicle and fire vehicle, provided that such blue light or lights shall be displayed on a police vehicle and fire vehicle for rear projection only. In the event that the trunk or rear gate of a police vehicle and fire vehicle obstructs or diminishes the visibility of other emergency lighting on such vehicles, a blue light may be affixed to and displayed from the trunk, rear gate or interior of such vehicles. Such lights may be displayed on a police vehicle and fire vehicle when such vehicles are engaged in an emergency operation. Nothing contained in this subparagraph shall be deemed to authorize the use of blue lights on police vehicles and fire vehicles unless such vehicles also display one or more red or combination red and white lights as otherwise authorized in this subdivision.

[IzzyEng4 427]

But EMS vehicles have their own standards to follow anyway like NFPA sets them for fire trucks correct?

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I thought the movement has been toward yellow lights on the rear of rigs for some time now. What's all the blue hoopla about anyway?

[Ga-Lin 86]

I thought the movement has been toward yellow lights on the rear of rigs for some time now. What's all the blue hoopla about anyway?

Studies have shown that blue lights are more visible across the spectrum especially during daylight hrs. I think all emergency vehicles should have them on the rear for safety reasons. I don't understand why EMS vehicles were excluded.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

I am not 100% familiar with VTL for emergency vehicles.. but I do remember the original sections on blue lights, and if this is an addition, than EMS is really left out, unless I never caught a particular section pertaining to EMS, which I doubt there is..

Either way, we just had a single rotating blue light changed on our two new rigs from the original red (dome replacement), and the difference is astonishing, day and night, not to mention with NYSP started doing this a few years ago. I remember going down I-90 in the middle of a snowstorm and only being able to see the blue clearly from a farther distance than I could see any of the other colors.

I doubt anyone would give private, FD EMS, or pure EMS rigs a hard time if they added blue as well.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Are there lighting requirements for EMS vehicles?

[NWFDMedic 58]

But EMS vehicles have their own standards to follow anyway like NFPA sets them for fire trucks correct?

The NFPA doesn't "set" anything. They are a private organization. The reason the NFPA "standards" have so much clout is it has been recognized as the "reasonably prudent" standard in courts a number of times. Nobody is forced to follow NFPA but it does pose a significant legal risk if a department is to get sued.

There is a standard for the lighting of ambulance vehicles. It is federal and it is contained within the KKK standard, although it doesn't specify color of lighting. That is left to be determined on the state level.

[IzzyEng4 427]

NWFD Medic, bad choice of words on my part saying "set" instead of "recommends" however thanks for the information that you posted with KKK standard. I couldn't remember which agency it was.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Actually the NFPA "sets" the nationally accepted practices of the fire service, the standards to which numerous personal protective garments and equipment are manufactured to, including structural, aircraft and ems turn out gear, and vehicles both fire AND EMS. Most ambulance lighting packages and markings fall in line with NFPA 1901 from what I've seen which supercedes KKK standards in most cases. Not to mention the amount of building and safety codes "set" by NFPA which are referenced in numerous other building codes standards including those used in NY State along with the minimum training requirements for firefighters and fire officers which most states use as a minimum template for their training programs.

[MoFire390 118]

if im not mistaken the DOT approved the use of blue lights on ambulances already

[Bnechis 3,961]

if im not mistaken the DOT approved the use of blue lights on ambulances already

That means using them does not violate the DOT KKK standard. But it still must meet State Law, which clearly only allows it if it is on a FD or PD ambulance

[trauma74 111]

The ammendment to the NYS VTL for blue lights is pretty recent, I am not sure of the date that it was ammended, but there is no other section of the VTL regarding colored lights, so yes, EMS was left out of the new ammendment.

Even before the ammendment was made for FD vehicles, I did see many FDs start adding blue lights or replacing existing other colored lights with blue on the rear of their vehicles. I know that even though EMS was left out of this ammendment, many of the volunteer and municipal EMS services will use blue lights on the rear of their vehicles. I have already seen many VACs with rear facing blue lights and as far as I know, and speaking for the area that I live in (Orange County), none of the VACs have had any "run ins" with the State and local PDs. I think that most of the police officers could care less if an ambulance has blue lights on it. With the law now including FD vehicles, I really do not see any EMS agencies having any problems on the PD side. For the private EMS services, I think they may tread a little more lightly than a VAC or Municipal service. The reason why I say this is because NYS DOH looks pretty hard at the Private EMS agencies and I know that if DOH really wanted to "break balls", they could technically give out a violation for a vehicle that is not in compliance with NYS DMV laws. I am not saying this will stop Private EMS from using blue lights, but I do not think it will be as widespread as it is with the VACs and Municipal services. Also, I am not going to name any EMS agencies, but I have seen ambulances in both Orange County & Rockland County using some blue lights that are forward facing in addition to rear facing.

It comes down to safety, this is the reason why the PDs were permitted to have blue lights in the first place and why the NYS VTL was changed a few years ago to allow it. If the PDs and FDs can use blue for safety reasons, I do not see why EMS should be excluded from something that is for "safety reasons"......

As far as visibilty goes, yes, amber is a good color choice for the rear of all emergency vehicles, but blue blows away the amber when it comes to visibilty. I know when I am out on the local roads and the State highways and PD is stopped along the shoulder whether it be for a traffic stop or some other hazard, I see the flashing blue lights WAY before I see any of the other colored lights, especially at night.

[Remember585 815]

Good post Trauma.

I have been waiting for this law to be changed for as long as all of us started discussing it. As soon as we found out about the recent amendment, we began switching some of our rig's warning lights. Since it is cheaper to do so, we made the simple change to some strobe lights, since all that is required is a new lens. As far as LEDs go, you can't just change a lens, you have to replace the whole light - something many of us can't afford to do or choose not to spend the money on at this time.

For those of you going with blue LEDs, I encourage you to use a dimmer control. If you're like me, you've approached a police car with blue LEDs and have been blinded. Most lightbars and LED controls offer dimmers, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM. You don't want to blind oncoming drivers - it will defeat the purpose of trying to be safer.

And...as many have said before, the proper use of scene lighting, rig placement, safety vests and traffic control devices with trump and flashing lights you may use.

Just my humble opinion.

[Remember585 815]

That means using them does not violate the DOT KKK standard. But it still must meet State Law, which clearly only allows it if it is on a FD or PD ambulance

Is it just me, or is the "KKK" in desperate need of a name change?

[trauma74 111]

Yeah, who the hell came up with the letters KKK for a standard for EMS?, someone was not thinking on that day.................................

[NWFDMedic 58]

Doug,

I don't think there's a police officer out there that would write a summons to an emergency vehicle that had blue lights facing rear in the interest of safety. This is especially true considering these larger EMS vehicles might hide the police vehicle from sight at the scene of an MVC and it may be the lights on the ambulance that are actually protecting the police officer. I would also imagine that the DOH would be rather unlikely to choose this issue to "break balls" of any agency. Imagine this article on the front cover of The Record: "DOH cites ambulance for being too safe".

I think a lot of agencies have gone overboard to the point of blinding people with lights or trying to find one more place for a light than the agency next to them. However, if agencies are doing what they can to make their members safe, it's a ridiculous and petty argument to fight about what color lights an emergency vehicle might have.

[Remember585 815]

Doug,

I don't think there's a police officer out there that would write a summons to an emergency vehicle that had blue lights facing rear in the interest of safety.

Don't bet on it. There's a picture out there of a certain Tower Ladder stopped by a patrol car a couple of years ago...

[Bnechis 3,961]

I don't think there's a police officer out there that would write a summons to an emergency vehicle that had blue lights facing rear in the interest of safety. This is especially true considering these larger EMS vehicles might hide the police vehicle from sight at the scene of an MVC and it may be the lights on the ambulance that are actually protecting the police officer. I would also imagine that the DOH would be rather unlikely to choose this issue to "break balls" of any agency.

The issue is not gettinga ticket, its the potential legal fallout for an agency that is involved in an accident. A smart lawyer (or even a not so smart one) will show that the accident was your fault because you were doing something illegal. I dont think your insurance carrier will be happy after that.

An ambulance should not be used as a blocker for a PD vehicle. Get something bigger behind you. EMS personnel have been struck and killed while loading the patient.

[NWFDMedic 58]

An ambulance should not be used as a blocker for a PD vehicle. Get something bigger behind you. EMS personnel have been struck and killed while loading the patient.

Well that's obviously the best case. When going to a highway accident, I always attempt to get to the front of the line for several reasons (A) not getting stuck on the scene, ( size-up of three sides of the scene before I step out of the bus (the firefighter in me), and © safety in loading the patient. However, we all know not every scene plays out how we'd like.

[helicopper 1,050]

But EMS vehicles have their own standards to follow anyway like NFPA sets them for fire trucks correct?

Standards and regulations do not trump State Law. Unfortunately, the fire service lobbied for the change and didn't include EMS in the language they provided our esteemed legislators.

if im not mistaken the DOT approved the use of blue lights on ambulances already

This is how it can be effectively used to lobby for a change to the law but it doesn't mean it's legal now.

Doug,

I don't think there's a police officer out there that would write a summons to an emergency vehicle that had blue lights facing rear in the interest of safety. This is especially true considering these larger EMS vehicles might hide the police vehicle from sight at the scene of an MVC and it may be the lights on the ambulance that are actually protecting the police officer. I would also imagine that the DOH would be rather unlikely to choose this issue to "break balls" of any agency. Imagine this article on the front cover of The Record: "DOH cites ambulance for being too safe".

The DOH must abide by the law and their regulations. As a state agency it is unlikely that the DOH will "overlook" a violation of state law and "certify" a vehicle that is improperly or illegally equipped. This is not "breaking balls" but reducing liability and exposure to their agency and yours. The headline would likely be "DOH fails to certify ambulance with illegal equipment".

The legal implications and potential fall-out for the DOH rep doing the inspection far out-weigh the benefit of letting it slide.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Down here in the Florida, you do not want to see the blue lights in your rear view mirror. All law enforcement agencies, and in the Keys we have so many it is hard to keep track, use blue strobes. FHP, the entire state's County Sheriff' departments have uniform car coloring as well as blue strobes, we have ICE, we have the FWC (wildlife cops), we have the border patrol, we have SLED, and we have FDOT. I'm not kidding, you can drive a mile on Route 1 and see one of each.

There is a "move over" law in Florida, widely disregarded by the dumbed down citizenry chatting away on their cell phones. If LE has somebody stopped in the shoulder, you are required by law to move out of the driving lane, and either into the center turning lane on a three lane road like the Overseas Highway, or completely onto the other side of the road on a two lane. If that means stopping and waiting for passing traffic so you can proceed across a double yellow, that's what you're supposed to do.

The move to "amber lighting" as I remember it was not because of visibility. Studies were done, particularly involving cell phone users and DUIs that crashed into emergency vehicles, because they were "drawn out of curiosity" as to what was going on. In other words, it was kind of proven that red and blue lighting is a "magnet" for the under-the-influence crowd, and others. The use of amber became widely used in theory because it was less likely to draw that curiosity; like highway work going on, it doesn't get peoples' morbid curiosity adrenaline flowing.

That's the way I remember it. Now who wants to tell me how wrong my memory is serving me? It's ok, I'm a big boy, and can take it. I won't start a hate club if somebody proves me wrong!

IMO: Stick with amber rear lighting, and you'll have a better chance of not attracting a magnet crash.

[helicopper 1,050]

KKK is the abbreviation for KKK-A-1822 E. 49 CFR 393.

Attached for your review.

KKK-A-1822 E.pdf

[trauma74 111]

Doug,

I don't think there's a police officer out there that would write a summons to an emergency vehicle that had blue lights facing rear in the interest of safety. This is especially true considering these larger EMS vehicles might hide the police vehicle from sight at the scene of an MVC and it may be the lights on the ambulance that are actually protecting the police officer. I would also imagine that the DOH would be rather unlikely to choose this issue to "break balls" of any agency. Imagine this article on the front cover of The Record: "DOH cites ambulance for being too safe".

I think a lot of agencies have gone overboard to the point of blinding people with lights or trying to find one more place for a light than the agency next to them. However, if agencies are doing what they can to make their members safe, it's a ridiculous and petty argument to fight about what color lights an emergency vehicle might have.

Dan,

I agree with your post. You and I have both been involved in EMS and the FDs for many years in Orange County. Almost makes me feel old! LOL! You can never be too safe when you are operating on scene. I do agree that it would look bad for DOH to cite any ambulance for being too safe. I fully understand your concerns about agencies going overboard with lighting and I agree that often times, it can be very blinding. I do like that idea that there can be different settings for LEDs to reduce their power, like a dimmer type switch. This is something that could be used at night especially when stopped on a scene.

Also, I know someone mentioned the "move over" laws that many states have in their VTL laws. NYS passed a "move over" law that goes into effect sometime in 2011, hopefully that will help reduce the number of accidents when emergency vehicles are parked on a scene.

One more thing I wanted to mention that gets me about EMS being left out of the new VTL ammendment is that if the ambulance, fly car or special ops vehicle is from a Fire based or Police based EMS service, they can blue lights, but the private, volunteer and independant EMS services cannot.......that is just DUMB!