San Fransisco working fire

[efdcapt115 1,511]

You might want to listen to the audio, but it'll probably get your blood to boiling. The ignorance factor comes into play with the woman doing the filming in a big way. Then you start to hear people yelling "where's the water?!" a few minutes in. I read on another site that there were problems gaining entry into the fire apartment, so getting water flowing from the interior became a problem. The guy yelling "where's the f-in water man", probably was the dumb a** that lit his apt up!

On another note, can anybody tell me why (Kujo?) the west coast fire departments are so in love with wooden ground ladders still?

youtube credit (reluctantly): gloriaf09...."man"...

[turk132 9]

Check this out Cap. http://www.vententersearch.com/

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Check this out Cap. http://www.vententersearch.com/

Thanks turk, that's a great video. Really enjoyed it.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I never really saw the need why to move away from wood ladders. Granted wood and metal have their separate advantages and disadvantages, why wouldn't we use wood? Upkeep may be more and price may be higher but the longevity and safety around using them is a major plus in my opinion. Plus they don't ice up as quick with our cold winter snaps.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I never really saw the need why to move away from wood ladders. Granted wood and metal have their separate advantages and disadvantages, why wouldn't we use wood? Upkeep may be more and price may be higher but the longevity and safety around using them is a major plus in my opinion. Plus they don't ice up as quick with our cold winter snaps.

One reason I can think of off the top of my head is; you need MANPOWER to carry a heavier ladder. The video from VES said a 50 footer weighted 300+ lbs. How many of our departments have the necessary mp to carry that.....

[abaduck 123]

One reason I can think of off the top of my head is; you need MANPOWER to carry a heavier ladder. The video from VES said a 50 footer weighted 300+ lbs. How many of our departments have the necessary mp to carry that.....

How many of our departments carry or use a 50 foot ground ladder??

[efdcapt115 1,511]

How many of our departments carry or use a 50 foot ground ladder??

Well, would it also mean a 25 footer would way 150 pounds?

[CBX4627 114]

After listening to that dumb b**** for 14 minutes, I want to walk up to her and smack her in the face!

[IzzyEng4 427]

Well, would it also mean a 25 footer would way 150 pounds?

Capt, I never had a problem putting up a 24 ft. wood extension ladder myself though the old "the first number in the length of the ladder equals the safe acceptable number to raise it" is a benefit. And besides I have never seen no less that three or four people put up a forty-five or fifty footer at a fire and New Haven still runs them, granted they are now aluminum they still require the same amount of people to put it up safely. And saying you don't have enough manpower to put up a ground ladder is a sorry excuse for not getting one up, sorry but that is my opinion. If you need a ladder, a person can put it up easily, if you need a big ladder, then you get the people to do it. And a 28 ft. wood ladder is not even close to 150 pounds, eighty to 100 maybe by my best guess-timate.

I forgot to add before too that that the best way to watch the video you posted was great to watch how SFFD operates and best if muted, kinda like watching those foreign channels with the hot women on them! <thumbs up>

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Capt, I never had a problem putting up a 24 ft. wood extension ladder myself though the old "the first number in the length of the ladder equals the safe acceptable number to raise it" is a benefit. And besides I have never seen no less that three or four people put up a forty-five or fifty footer at a fire and New Haven still runs them, granted they are now aluminum they still require the same amount of people to put it up safely. And saying you don't have enough manpower to put up a ground ladder is a sorry excuse for not getting one up, sorry but that is my opinion. If you need a ladder, a person can put it up easily, if you need a big ladder, then you get the people to do it. And a 28 ft. wood ladder is not even close to 150 pounds, eighty to 100 maybe by my best guess-timate.

I forgot to add before too that that the best way to watch the video you posted was great to watch how SFFD operates and best if muted, kinda like watching those foreign channels with the hot women on them! <thumbs up>

Fair enough Borat! lol

But Izz, my point was I'm thinking the reason the fire service gravitated over to aluminum ladders was for the a) lack of maintenance compared to wooden ones and b. because a minimally staffed department (like mine) you could have a truck man throw a 24 foot ground ladder if need be by himself; maneuver it around to a backyard, get it up against the building, raise it, and still have some energy to do some work.

Or two guys could do the same with a 35.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done with wooden ladders. I'm saying departments were happy to go for lightweight aluminum for the reasons I stated. When you have two man trucks like we did, this is just the reality.

Our spare truck used to have wooden ladders, and we had to linseed oil them, until one guy threw the rags in the trash bin in Station 4's kitchen and lit the firehouse on fire. End of wooden ladders.

I've noticed in videos that other California departments (I think L.A.) still use the wood. Maybe I was way off on my calculations of the weight of a 25/24 foot wooden ground ladder, but please don't put me in the category of "can't do." That wasn't my point.............now maybe you want to say hello to my wiffeee....thumbs up!

[M' Ave 1,466]

To quickly answer the question about wooden ground ladders......

San Francisco still has electric street cars as well as electric buses that draw from over head centenary wires. These overhead wires are ALL OVER THE PLACE. I've been told that the excessive number of exposed overhead wires is one of the chief reasons behind the continues use of wooden ladders.

As for the video; you can't blame people for yelling what they yelled. They're watching a building go up in flames and from the outside, it doesn't look like much is going on. Even though S.F. is filled with liberal "0"s, I have to give them credit for eventually figuring out that they had been spraying water from the inside all along and that you can't spray inwards and outwards at the same time. They do say that towards the end. People just don't know how you have to fight a fire. To the layperson, it might make perfect sense to just open a deck gun and blast the fire from the street, through the open window.

From the couch, I hate to quarterback and I know that S.F. has an excellent reputation indeed. It seems like it did take quite a while to get into that apt. and put water on the fire, but we all know what might have stood in the way. Maybe the door had a Fox Lock and a police bar to go along with a bunch of dead-bolts. That'll kick your butt trying to force. Maybe they had a burst length inside. S.F., like many places doesn't have the luxury of adequate manpower. Maybe there were only two or three guys stretching the first line to the interior.

All in all, the fire was out within 10 or 15 minutes with a little exposure the the floor above. From the looks of things, that first apt. was well involved when they arrived and it was a total loss at that point anyway. So, however you want to critique it, the fire went out, hopefully no one was hurt (looked like they had a couple truckies helping folks outta the building) and there was minimal damage done beyond that that was already done prior to arrival.

Edited October 19, 2010 by M' Ave

[99subi 121]

I have wonderd this for some time, so i will ask. Why does SFFD not wear full turn out gear while fighting fires? In more videos than just this one i have seen FF's without bunkers pants inside burning structures. Anyone want to offer some insight?

[prucha25 76]

I have wonderd this for some time, so i will ask. Why does SFFD not wear full turn out gear while fighting fires? In more videos than just this one i have seen FF's without bunkers pants inside burning structures. Anyone want to offer some insight?

Watch the video on vententerseach.com that turk132 posted, it explain it there Chris

[99subi 121]

In what video? i saw the ladder one, that was it.

[prucha25 76]

http://www.vententersearch.com/ click that link, first video on the page

[FFBlaser 24]

"Yeah why don't they just go in there."

You, Deserve to be shot.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Upkeep may be more and price may be higher but the longevity and safety around using them is a major plus in my opinion.

SF has (or at least had) a ladder shop with 2 "carpenters". They build their own ladders as well as maintaining them. I visited them in the early 1990's and they told me that they would travel to Alaska to purchase the lumber needed.

One reason I can think of off the top of my head is; you need MANPOWER to carry a heavier ladder. The video from VES said a 50 footer weighted 300+ lbs.

50 foot Alum. Alco ladder is listed at 250#

As previously listed overhead electrical (and very close to buildings) is the main reason. I also noticed that the members took great pride in their wood ladders (more than I have ever seen for an aluminum one).

Edited October 20, 2010 by Bnechis

[99subi 121]

http://www.vententersearch.com/ click that link, first video on the page

still not seeing it matt

[wraftery 1,275]

I went OTJ in 1971. We had wood that required more maintenence and they were heavy. The 50' Bangor raise took 6 men working hard to put it up. It also needed an officer to coordinate the effort.

Along came the super lightweight Alcolite, put together with bent aluminum plates and pop rivets. A little bounce when climbing, in fact sometimes you had to stop so the bounce stopped, then start climbing again.

OSHA and NFPA came along and beefed up the specs for ground ladders. Now Aluminum weighs pretty close to wood, I would say.