What is going on in Croton?

[vtach39680 23]

Not sure if I heard this correctly but 4 unanswered calls for croton EMS all requiring mutual aid. Are their buses OOS? Or just staffing?

[vtach39680 23]

It was a question as to is this a mechanical vechicle issue or more if a staffing issue. And since all this talk of mutual aid in a different thread. I am curious to know if it is indeed either a mechanical issue were surrounding mutual aid agencies notified to perhaps allow them to prepare for an increase in call volume

[xchief2x 79]

Although I am no longer affiliated with croton ems I believe it may be a staffing issue since it is Tuesday and the EMT that is usually the one counted on most is doing his weekly 12 hr shift at OVAC. Just my thoughts.

[vtach39680 23]

So based on that assumption is it also fair to speculate that they do not have a riding schedule and just tone out and hope that they can assemble a crew

[xchief2x 79]

Like I said I am no longer affiliated with CEMS so I can not answer any operational questions.

[JFLYNN 681]

My kids are in school in Croton at this moment and I would like to be assured that if, God forbid, either of them has a medical emergency, there will be a response of an adequate number of BLS and or ALS trained personnel in a timely manner. Thank you to the individual who made the original post suggesting that there may be a very serious issue with EMS response in Croton. I would sincerely appreciate it if one of the many members on this forum who are involved in Emergency Services in or around Croton would please provide us with information regarding this very serious issue.

[Goose 188]

What do you mean by this? I think it was a very legitimate question. Also, I think you meant "productive or counterproductive", maybe?

My kids are in school in Croton at this moment and I would like to be assured that if, God forbid, either of them has a medical emergency, there will be a response of an adequate number of BLS and or ALS trained personnel in a timely manner. Thank you to the individual who made the original post suggesting that there may be a very serious issue with EMS response in Croton. I would sincerely appreciate it if one of the many members on this forum who are involved in Emergency Services in or around Croton would please provide us with information regarding this very serious issue.

Well put.

[INIT915 1,119]

Four calls in a half-hour is an anomaly. Were they somehow tangentially related, or just a coincidence?

And ALS comes from OVAC, not Croton, which maintains a fully staffed roster of career Paramedics (3 during the day, an ALS Ambulance, a Medic Fly-Car, and a Medic Supervisor, in addition to an additional BLS ambulance), so more likely then not, the issue here is the BLS transport aspect.

[vtach39680 23]

Well considering the only 2 reasons for someone to call for an ambulance is 1 physical transportation and the other being requesting help cause the situation has gotten out of what they deem they can handle the lack of The ambulance hitting the road seems like a pretty big issue

The question that has still yet to be answered is if they were experiencing a staffing issue do they notify adjacent agencies so they can perhaps increase their staffing

[Remember585 815]

What do you mean by this? I think it was a very legitimate question. Also, I think you meant "productive or counterproductive", maybe?

My kids are in school in Croton at this moment and I would like to be assured that if, God forbid, either of them has a medical emergency, there will be a response of an adequate number of BLS and or ALS trained personnel in a timely manner. Thank you to the individual who made the original post suggesting that there may be a very serious issue with EMS response in Croton. I would sincerely appreciate it if one of the many members on this forum who are involved in Emergency Services in or around Croton would please provide us with information regarding this very serious issue.

John,

I'm no longer a member of Croton EMS, so like my father (xchief2x) I can't comment on their operations. I also agree that it would be nice to know that help is going to be there if we all need it. I have no idea what happened today, as I didn't hear any of these incidents. Hopefully their leadership will address the problem swiftly.

[FDVA356 23]

I will be the third to say that I'm no longer a member of CEMS and hopefully CEMS officers will address this issue. If I had an idea of whats wrong it's part of the following:

Recruitment/Retention: as 3 of the ones commenting on this thread are EX members for whatever reasons I have to say the agencies need to be more proactive in retaining their quality members. Secondly, Recruitment is tough due to the requirements, training, maintaining EMT certification, times needed to be a member (calls, meetings, standby's, training etc)

Leadership??? Maybe an issue, possibly need to look at the big picture and make a change to make a difference.

Anyway, I have to say Croton EMS from the beginning has been a quality agency and this is probably just a bump in the road. Due to increased call volume, training etc. it maybe time to experiment and obtain idea's from other agencies that had or have a problem and work it out. Several volunteer EMS agencies have been proactive and decided to put career staff on the rigs (Peekskill, OVAC, Harrison, Somers) and it has had a dramatic difference in the level and quality of care. Believe me I'm not taking anything away from Volunteers as I'm a proud one as well, but something needs to be done to ensure timely patient care. In EMS, minutes could be the deciding factor in the ultimate definitive result of the emergency. As in life or death.

Hopefully this can remain a thread that can aid in the solutions of the issues on hand and not only help Croton but other communities facing the same issue.

[Monty 35]

Anyway, I have to say Croton EMS from the beginning has been a quality agency and this is probably just a bump in the road. Due to increased call volume, training etc. it maybe time to experiment and obtain idea's from other agencies that had or have a problem and work it out. Several volunteer EMS agencies have been proactive and decided to put career staff on the rigs (Peekskill, OVAC, Harrison, Somers) and it has had a dramatic difference in the level and quality of care. Believe me I'm not taking anything away from Volunteers as I'm a proud one as well, but something needs to be done to ensure timely patient care. In EMS, minutes could be the deciding factor in the ultimate definitive result of the emergency. As in life or death.

These things don't come for free though. Ossining just instituted an 'ambulance district' tax - or something similar to help with funding OVAC (should that be OAC? ).

Another increase to the taxes we pay .... although I didn't hear much noise about this one though.

[1075thebox 1]

Ironically, Croton EMS had two calls at the same time, at the same place around 12:30 this morning. They covered both, then went on to cover one for Peekskill and one for Mohegan.

The system is flawed, not so much one agency.

[vtach39680 23]

Ok so back to my question if it is a staffing issue that seems to be the issue. Does the agency make a hold members to a riding schedule or do they tone out and hope they get a crew?

[Goose 188]

Ok so back to my question if it is a staffing issue that seems to be the issue. Does the agency make a hold members to a riding schedule or do they tone out and hope they get a crew?

Of course it's a staffing issue. It's always been a staffing issue. There simply are more ambulances in this county than 1) we need or 2) there is available staff to fill those buses.

[INIT915 1,119]

Of course it's a staffing issue. It's always been a staffing issue. There simply are more ambulances in this county than 1) we need or 2) there is available staff to fill those buses.

How many do we need?

[FDVA356 23]

Staffing- well in the begining of the new agency, we discussed pager call vs. duty hours and actually were able to do both. Either yoy make I believe 7% of calls or 24 hours a month. The duty hours is a great concept but never really worked since most of the members of CEMS were so used to pager calls. At this present time the agency probably 40+ members I believe, and like any other agency 6-10 are really carrying the agency and this includes a Top Responder EMT who is 83 years young. I give him tremendous credit, but like I've always said, if every one of the 40+ members did their minimum at the least the agency wouldn't have an issue. Anyway, I give credit to any volunteer member these days, as training requirements have increased along with call volume and throw in our busy lifestyles of 2 or even 3 jobs.

I hope I answered your staffing question.

[JFLYNN 681]

Staffing- well in the begining of the new agency, we discussed pager call vs. duty hours and actually were able to do both. Either yoy make I believe 7% of calls or 24 hours a month. The duty hours is a great concept but never really worked since most of the members of CEMS were so used to pager calls. At this present time the agency probably 40+ members I believe, and like any other agency 6-10 are really carrying the agency and this includes a Top Responder EMT who is 83 years young. I give him tremendous credit, but like I've always said, if every one of the 40+ members did their minimum at the least the agency wouldn't have an issue. Anyway, I give credit to any volunteer member these days, as training requirements have increased along with call volume and throw in our busy lifestyles of 2 or even 3 jobs.

I hope I answered your staffing question.

I don't understand your statement "the duty hours is a great concept but never really worked since most of the members of CEMS were so used to pager calls..." Does the agency exist to serve the members needs and comfortability level or does the agency exist to provide the best possible Emergency Medical service to the public?

Do you have any information on average as well as mean response times? Is CEMS meeting industry standards in this regard? Can I be assured that if a loved one of mine needs an ambulance in Croton that there will be a timely response of adequately trained and physically able personnel? Is amyone in CEMS exploring consolidation, regionalization, or paid staffing?

[FDVA356 23]

Mr. Flynn- in reference to your concerns, I totally understand but I have to say CEMS just like any other agency around us aims to provide the best patient care. If you need response times etc. you will have to get a hold of a CEMS officer as this isn't something I would have access to at this time. Prior to leaving the agency, times were being worked on and they were under the National standard of I believe 8 mins (if I remember correctly). I also have relatives and friends living in Croton and I can assure you that CEMS has put the community as the top priority, I can assure you of that. Just like Croton FD, CEMS is an excellent agency that delivers the best service to our neighbors. Like any other agency, items will always need attention, no ones perfect. If you have any other questions, check on the Village of Croton website and email one of the officers of CEMS if you have concerns or questions.

I have to agree though, it maybe time to look at some alternatives/changes to handle issues at hand, and if it's hiring a emt or crew so be it. But I'm confident that CEMS and the Village of Croton will make the best decision for the community.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Prior to leaving the agency, times were being worked on and they were under the National standard of I believe 8 mins (if I remember correctly).

The standard is BLS in 4 minutes and ALS in 8 minutes, 90% of the time.

[JFLYNN 681]

Mr. Flynn- in reference to your concerns, I totally understand but I have to say CEMS just like any other agency around us aims to provide the best patient care. If you need response times etc. you will have to get a hold of a CEMS officer as this isn't something I would have access to at this time. Prior to leaving the agency, times were being worked on and they were under the National standard of I believe 8 mins (if I remember correctly). I also have relatives and friends living in Croton and I can assure you that CEMS has put the community as the top priority, I can assure you of that. Just like Croton FD, CEMS is an excellent agency that delivers the best service to our neighbors. Like any other agency, items will always need attention, no ones perfect. If you have any other questions, check on the Village of Croton website and email one of the officers of CEMS if you have concerns or questions.

I have to agree though, it maybe time to look at some alternatives/changes to handle issues at hand, and if it's hiring a emt or crew so be it. But I'm confident that CEMS and the Village of Croton will make the best decision for the community.

If you really believe what you wrote in your first paragraph, why did you include the first sentence in the second paragraph?

[fireguy43 35]

Amazing...... someone notices that four calls went unanswered in Croton, and asks, very innocently enough, if anyone knows why. Two pages of thread later, people are coming out of the woodwork to declare that Croton EMS needs fixing, when not one fact was shared as to what the real, factual reason was for the lack of response in the first post. Not only does Croton apparently need paid EMT's, but we really ought to be talking about consolidation and regionalization! Maybe all Croton needed today was a good mechanic, but we don't know that, do we?

Perfect example of the rush to judgement and advancing one's own personal agenda without bothering to learn the facts.

I have no affiliation to Croton EMS, but I hope someone from that agency speaks up and at least puts on record what the real situation was today.

[MJP399 4]

No affiliation either, but why not contact an officer through email? I feel it would be the best way to get your answers

[Remember585 815]

There's some other agencies out there that are in far worst shape. I guess because they're not on 46.26, it doesn't count?

Even if both of the Croton ambulances were crewed the other day, two calls would have went to Mutual Aid.

Should an ambulance show up everytime it is dispatched? Yes. Is it a reality when you do not have paid staffing, you lack available volunteer resources and most of your members can't afford to live in the jurisdiction they belong to? No.

The issue here shouldn't be aired out on this forum. If someone has a legitimate concern about the response capabilities of Croton EMS, then contact Croton EMS direct.

That is all.

Here is their contact information: CEMS

Edited October 14, 2010 by Remember585

[helicopper 1,050]

I think this thread has morphed into something other then what was intended. A question was asked about one specific timeframe in Croton and the discussion is now about general EMS staffing and response issues. If there's no other input about Croton on the date/time in question, please move the general discussion to another thread.

Thank you.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

There's some other agencies out there that are in far worst shape. I guess because they're not on 46.26, it doesn't count?

Even if both of the Croton ambulances were crewed the other day, two calls would have went to Mutual Aid.

Should an ambulance show up everytime it is dispatched? Yes. Is it a reality when you do not have paid staffing, you lack available volunteer resources and most of your members can't afford to live in the jurisdiction they belong to? No.

The issue here shouldn't be aired out on this forum. If someone has a legitimate concern about the response capabilities of Croton EMS, then contact Croton EMS direct.

That is all.

Here is their contact information: CEMS

John,

If (and I don't know the facts so I'm saying if) Croton has any issues with staffing, particularly during weekday working hours, why don't they look at the model that EVAC put together some years ago?

They run paid per-diem EMTs and paramedics, and maintain their volunteer core. They do get some subsidizing from the Town of Eastchester, but much of their budget is covered by insurance billing for transports and ALS services.

The system down there works pretty good. They used to have daytime coverage issues, this system pretty much solved it.

[Remember585 815]

John,

If (and I don't know the facts so I'm saying if) Croton has any issues with staffing, particularly during weekday working hours, why don't they look at the model that EVAC put together some years ago?

They run paid per-diem EMTs and paramedics, and maintain their volunteer core. They do get some subsidizing from the Town of Eastchester, but much of their budget is covered by insurance billing for transports and ALS services.

The system down there works pretty good. They used to have daytime coverage issues, this system pretty much solved it.

It's probably what is needed, but again, I no longer belong and don't know what plans are in effect. Perhaps they are exploring this option, but I don't know.

[JFLYNN 681]

John,

If (and I don't know the facts so I'm saying if) Croton has any issues with staffing, particularly during weekday working hours, why don't they look at the model that EVAC put together some years ago?

They run paid per-diem EMTs and paramedics, and maintain their volunteer core. They do get some subsidizing from the Town of Eastchester, but much of their budget is covered by insurance billing for transports and ALS services.

The system down there works pretty good. They used to have daytime coverage issues, this system pretty much solved it.

OVAC did the same thing a couple of years ago and it seems to be be working well, perhaps surrounnding communities should explore shared services...

[FFLieu 70]

Amazing...... someone notices that four calls went unanswered in Croton, and asks, very innocently enough, if anyone knows why. Two pages of thread later, people are coming out of the woodwork to declare that Croton EMS needs fixing, when not one fact was shared as to what the real, factual reason was for the lack of response in the first post. Not only does Croton apparently need paid EMT's, but we really ought to be talking about consolidation and regionalization! Maybe all Croton needed today was a good mechanic, but we don't know that, do we?

Perfect example of the rush to judgement and advancing one's own personal agenda without bothering to learn the facts.

I have no affiliation to Croton EMS, but I hope someone from that agency speaks up and at least puts on record what the real situation was today.

Exactly. And notice who the posters are who are perpetrating that agenda. Typical, and par for the course.

I have no affiliation with Croton EMS, but who is to say that the 4 calls going unanswered in a particular 30 minute span is not that 1-in-one-million long-shot that everyone talks about? Maybe they had a couple of buses out of service? Maybe instead of coming on here to ask about and infer about a particular VAC's perceived lack of staffing, mechanical needs, and the like, all while fueling the drama with more and more conjecture, the OP should perhaps call the VAC and ask them what happened?

Let us all keep in mind that members of the media can access this site and whenever someone asks what might be an innocent question regarding a sensitive issue such as this one, it could very well make its way into the papers. Someone posted here yesterday that there was a question posed on LoHud that insinuated that NRFD took its time while responding to a fire; although that was not the case, the comment posters on LoHud basically skewered the department and its response while having either incomplete facts or no facts at all. In short, we should learn from that episode, and keep what started out as an innocent question from turning into a potentially reputational risk.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Exactly. And notice who the posters are who are perpetrating that agenda. Typical, and par for the course.

Whom are you referring to specifically? And what "agenda" are you speaking of?