Carrying Oxygen in a Personal Vehicle

[rescue83 2]

Sorry if this a repeat.

Do I need a special license or a card to carry O2 in my POV in NY, yes the EMT part is a definite. Would there be any thing in the DMV about it?

Thank You

[50-65 205]

sorry if this a repeat

but would i need a special license or a card to carry O2 in my pov in NY, yes deff the EMT part is a definite. Would there be any thing in the dmv about it .

thank you

"No" is the short answer. Common sense rules would apply as far as securing the O2 cylinder, protecting it from exposure to heat (like NOT putting it on the back seat to bake in the sun), etc.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Common sense rules would apply as far as securing the O2 cylinder,

They makea great projectile. Not something you want flying around inside your car.

NYS requires that on an ambulance they must be secured to prevent injury.

[helicopper 1,050]

This is the section of EMS code dealing with storage of tanks...

800.23 General Requirements Related To Equipment

(a) All equipment shall be clean, sanitary and operable.

( The emergency medical technician must be able to operate all equipment on board the ambulance or emergency ambulance service vehicle within the scope of his/her certification.

(c ) Any volume of liquid in excess of 249 milliliters stored in the ambulance must be in plastic containers.

(d) Insofar as practical, all equipment in every vehicle shall be secured to the vehicle whenever the vehicle is in motion.

(e) All pressurized gas cylinders shall be secured and in compliance with Federal DOT hydrostatis test expiration dates.

(f) If controlled substances, drugs or needles are carried, there shall be a securely locked cabinet in which these items are stored when not in use.

If you're an EMT carrying oxygen, you may want to review your agency's policies and carry all the required equipment for an "emergency ambulance service vehicle" (listed below).

800.26 Emergency Ambulance Service Vehicle Equipment Requirements

The governing authority of any ambulance service which, as a part of its response system, utilizes emergency ambulance service vehicles other than an ambulance to bring personnel and equipment to the scene, must have policies in effect for equipment, staffing, individual authorization, dispatch and response criteria, and maintain appropriate insurance coverage.

• (a) A waiver of the equipment requirements for emergency ambulance service vehicles may be granted by the Department when the service provides an acceptable plan to the Department demonstrating how appropriate staff, equipment and vehicles will respond to a call for emergency medical assistance. The affected Regional EMS Councils will be solicited for comment on the service's waiver request.
• ( Any emergency ambulance service vehicle other than an ambulance shall be equipped and supplied with emergency care equipment consisting of:
  • (1) 12 sterile 4 inches x 4 inches gauze pads;
  • (2) adhesive tape, three rolls assorted sizes;
  • (3) six rolls conforming gauge bandage, assorted sizes;
  • (4) two universal dressings, minimum 10 inches x 30 inches;
  • (5) six 5 inches x 9 inches (minimum size) sterile dressings or equivalent;
  • (6) one pair of bandage shears;
  • (7) six triangular bandages;
  • (8) sterile normal saline in plastic container (1/2 liter minimum) within manufacturer's expiration date;
  • (9) one air occlusive dressing;
  • (10) one liquid glucose or equivalent;
  • (11) disposable sterile burn sheet;
  • (12) sterile obstetric kit;
  • (13) blood pressure sphygmomanometers cuff in adult and pediatric sizes and stethoscope;
  • (14) three rigid extrication collars capable of limiting movement of the cervical spine. These collars shall include small, medium and large adult sizes; and
  • (15) carrying case for essential equipment and supplies.

  [*](c ) Oxygen and resuscitation equipment consisting of:

  • (1) portable oxygen with a minimum 350 liter capacity with pressure gauge, regulator and flow meter medical "D" size or larger. The oxygen cylinder must contain a minimum of 1000 pounds per square inch;
  • (2) manually operated self-refilling bag valve mask ventilation devices in pediatric and adult sizes with a system capable of operating with oxygen enrichment and clear adult, and clear pediatric-size masks with air cushion;
  • (3) four individually wrapped or boxed oropharyngeal airways in a range of sizes for pediatric and adult patients;
  • (4) two each: disposable non-rebreather oxygen masks, and disposable nasal cannula individually wrapped;
  • (5) portable suction equipment capable, according to the manufacturer's specifications, of producing a vacuum of over 300 m.m. Hg when the suction tube is clamped and including two plastic large bore rigid pharyngeal suction tips, individually wrapped; and
  • (6) pen light or flashlight.
• (d) A two-way voice communications enabling direct communication with the agency dispatcher and the responding ambulance vehicle on frequencies other than citizens band.
• (e) Safety equipment consisting of:
  • (1) six flares or three U.S. Department of Transportation approved reflective road triangles;
  • (2) one battery lantern in operable condition; and
  • (3) one Underwriters' Laboratory-rated five pound ABC fire extinguisher or any extinguisher having a UL rating of 10BC.

  [*](f) Extrication equipment consisting of:

  • (1) one short backboard or equivalent capable of immobilizing the cervical spine of a seated patient. The short backboard shall have at least two 2 inches x 9 feet long web straps with fasteners unless straps are affixed to the device; and
  • (2) one blanket.

[Goose 188]

Bottom line, don't do it. Just respond to you're station and get the bus out - you're doing the patient a bigger disservice by buffing a job in a battle wagon when they really need an ambulance.

[Graham26 8]

Personally i just keep a separate BLS bag in my jeep all the time. And all the time I have had my bag in the back of my Jeep I have never needed O2 just driving around in my POV and everything I do. Very rarely will you need a supply of O2 on your POV. Thats just me.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Bottom line, don't do it. Just respond to you're station and get the bus out - you're doing the patient a bigger disservice by buffing a job in a battle wagon when they really need an ambulance.

Clearly you fail to understand how EMS in the rural areas often rely on licensed fire responders at all levels to begin care. Having started in a small rural community where the closest mutual aid ambulance was 20 minutes out, I can attest that having members properly equipped to assist patients is not a disservice of any sort. Aside from administering oxygen, bleeding control, assisting with EPI-pens, spinal immobilization, CPR and even defibrillation

are often performed by first responders with success. Not to mention being able to assess the situation and ammend the response appropriately.

[INIT915 1,119]

Clearly you fail to understand how EMS in the rural areas often rely on licensed fire responders at all levels to begin care. Having started in a small rural community where the closest mutual aid ambulance was 20 minutes out, I can attest that having members properly equipped to assist patients is not a disservice of any sort. Aside from administering oxygen, bleeding control, assisting with EPI-pens, spinal immobilization, CPR and even defibrillation

are often performed by first responders with success. Not to mention being able to assess the situation and ammend the response appropriately.

Well said.

[Goose 188]

Clearly you fail to understand how EMS in the rural areas often rely on licensed fire responders at all levels to begin care. Having started in a small rural community where the closest mutual aid ambulance was 20 minutes out, I can attest that having members properly equipped to assist patients is not a disservice of any sort. Aside from administering oxygen, bleeding control, assisting with EPI-pens, spinal immobilization, CPR and even defibrillation

are often performed by first responders with success. Not to mention being able to assess the situation and ammend the response appropriately.

If he wants to go ahead with all of that then he can have his vehicle inspected and certified part 800 by the state. Looks like he's from westchester and in westchester i think you're better off getting the bus out.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Bottom line, don't do it. Just respond to you're station and get the bus out - you're doing the patient a bigger disservice by buffing a job in a battle wagon when they really need an ambulance.

Couldn't disagree more. While your statement applies very well if you are working in urban/suburban like here in Westchester, the fact of the matter is a first response system saves lives in rural area which comprise more square area than any urban area. First responders in many communities are the first tier of EMS response that dont have PD or FD responding too. In VTEMS D3 where I have worked extensively with FD/EMS first response, many of these members are EMT-Bs or EMT-Is with full jump bags and equipment including O2 and IV kits who respond code 3 to the scene. They have everything that would be required of KKK certified ambulance except duplicate sets of equipment and an EKG machine. In this area, which is the most populous in all of Vermont, despite all ALS ambulances being staffed 24/7, response times to the scene are still as much as 45 minutes one way. The first response system has saved many many lives, while it turns the ambulance into a glorified taxi, more saves are done in the field by first response then by the ambulance crews simply because first responders are on scene longer and have prolonged patient contact. As I have witnessed, this prolonged contact can allow for the differentiation between stroke and intoxication, diabetic emergency and EDP, heart attack and indigestion. First Response has both a faster response time and a greater ability to stabilize and assess patients increasing positive and beneficial outcomes for the patients.

Edited October 9, 2010 by bvfdjc316

[INIT915 1,119]

Couldn't disagree more. While your statement applies very well if you are working in urban/suburban like here in Westchester, the fact of the matter is a first response system saves lives in rural area which comprise more square area than any urban area. First responders in many communities are the first tier of EMS response that dont have PD or FD responding too. In VTEMS D3 where I have worked extensively with FD/EMS first response, many of these members are EMT-Bs or EMT-Is with full jump backs and equipment including O2 and IV kits who respond code 3 to the scene. In this area, which is the most populous in all of Vermont, despite all ALS ambulances being staffed 24/7, response times to the scene are still as much as 45 minutes one way. The first response system has saved many many lives, while it turns the ambulance into a glorified taxi, more saves are done in the field by first response then by the ambulance crews simply because first responders are on scene longer and have prolonged patient contact. First Response has both a faster response time and a greater ability to stabilize and assess patients.

And, on top of that, even in "Urban/Suburbal Westchester", there are some districts with large response areas, and even when a truck gets right out, sometimes the response time can be substantial. The concept of having properly trained and equipped members in the field can be valuable.

[Bnechis 3,961]

And, on top of that, even in "Urban/Suburbal Westchester", there are some districts with large response areas, and even when a truck gets right out, sometimes the response time can be substantial. The concept of having properly trained and equipped members in the field can be valuable.

True, but many of those areas have great difficulty getting the bus on the road. Nice for a medic flycar to have POV back-up when he/she really needs a bus.

[INIT915 1,119]

True, but many of those areas have great difficulty getting the bus on the road. Nice for a medic flycar to have POV back-up when he/she really needs a bus.

Agreed, that's why I used the qualifier "some." It means "not all." Much like everything in EMS, and in life in general, the same rules do not apply everywhere.

[helicopper 1,050]

I'm glad to see most of the points I would have raised have already been made so I don't have to. I'll just say this - in Westchester County there are a great many first response units (police, fire, ALS, BLS) that carry oxygen and a complement of equipment that can be used by a qualified first responder when necessary. So, you have to wonder if this is out of necessity or out of buffiness. If it's out of necessity, fine. If it's out of buffiness, go to the ambulance.

We've already had threads where we've discussed the value of having 3 or sometimes even 4 different BLSFR and ALSFR units on a scene but no ambulance. Now we're adding POV's to the mix.

[Ga-Lin 86]

Sorry if this a repeat.

Do I need a special license or a card to carry O2 in my POV in NY, yes the EMT part is a definite. Would there be any thing in the DMV about it?

Thank You

You got a good response and a lot of info on your inquiry, but allow me add my two cents. It takes more than throwing a jump bag & 02 in your car to make it an Emergency service vehicle (ESV). On carrying oxygen in your POV, while there is little risk in administering O2 it is still a medication requiring authorization from a MD., which your agency probably has. They can then authorize you to carry & administer it under them as an ESV. However there are a few other issues that you should be aware of. Other than the required equipment needed, which has already been posted, there are other specific requirements which must be in place. You must be authorized as an ESV by your organization just as they auth. the use of blue or green courtesy lights. This is important & I'll return to it later. Another requirement can be found in part 800.21 (E) which states that all ESV must have the organization ID'd on both sides & rear of the vehicle with lettering not smaller than 3 inches. In all my travels throughout the NY metro & Hudson Valley area I've only seen one agency do this right (there may be others, but I only know of this one) and that's Lewisboro VAC. They made up huge magnetic signs which are then placed on the authorized POV's, and not everyone in the organization has them. Other than the obvious there is also a safety issue involved. Many, many years ago I remember an unmarked van which crashed & burned out on Long Island xway. It was carrying tanks of compressed gas. I'm unfamiliar with the thermodynamics of what happens when gases are heated or whether the heads failed due to heat or damage. The end result was the tanks flying through the back killing & injuring firefighters. This might be academic to you but is, I'm sure, one of the reasons which ESV's must be ID'd.

Take a look at 800.26 it requires the agency to authorize, have policies, & insure ESV's. Now, some agencies might tell members not to worry that your insurance will cover any accidents or that you are covered under the agency's insurance when responding. One, what would your insurance company say if they knew that the family car they are insuring is being used as an emergency vehicle. I'd ask to see a copy of the agencies policy which states I'm covered if responding in my car on their behalf.

I hate to rain on your parade, you sound like someone who wants to help, but there's never a problem until there's a problem. If you should get into an accident where someone is injured or, God forbid the nightmare we all fear, a fatality & all the requirements of State regs. & law are not meet.... you will very quickly find yourself an only child alone in the cold.

That's my view.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Ga-Lin