Rural Tennessee fire sparks debate

[antiquefirelt 994]

We have places in Westchester that have "EMS services" who are not coming either and you will bleed out waiting (so they are basically nonexisting). And they are tax supported (either directly or by billing medicaid/medicare)

This was my point earlier regarding the indignation of letting a house burn. What's worse, the subscription FD letting it burn or a funded FD making the taxpayers think they're getting a service then failing miserably to deliver?

[abaduck 123]

When my inlaws moved from the NY Metro area to a rural farming area, the local sherrif came out to see them on there farm and asked if they had any guns. My father in-law said no and was told then go out and get some. He was told that the response time could be hours and as a working farm they by law could shoot anyone on there land as a poucher and there would be no questions asked. They will come but it will be too late.

We have places in Westchester that have "EMS services" who are not coming either and you will bleed out waiting (so they are basically nonexisting). And they are tax supported (either directly or by billing medicaid/medicare)

Cap, on the farm I quite agree; whether you're way out in the sticks, or just in a small town, you will be 'on your own' until the cops show up - may be minutes, may be hours, but you're on your own. So I fully support armed self-defence; that's common sense.

But at least your farming inlaws HAVE a local sheriff. My point was concerning crime in general - rape, burglary, murder, the farming of illegal crops - hell even speeding. If there are areas where there's no fire service because people don't want to pay for it, aren't there areas where there's no law enforcement, because people won't pay for that? If you call 911 to report a rape, will you ever be told 'sorry, we can't help - your area isn't covered by any law enforcement' or even 'sorry, you haven't paid your $75 to the city PD, we can't send anyone'. No? Then why is LE considered more important than fire & rescue? How exactly does that work? If there's some law that mandates a law enforcement service exists, why isn't that extended to fire & rescue service?

If EMS service is inadequate, it needs to be improved. As with fire or police, a longer response time is to be expected in rural areas - that's a trade-off you make when you move there. Having NO service at all is not a trade-off that should ever exist.

[gamewell45 258]

About 30 years ago there was a section, I believe in the Thronwood Fire District that actually wasn't part of their district. If my memory serves me it was call the Asonia development. There were about 50 homes built there and everyone assumed it was in Thronwood's district. As it turn out after the houses were built, sold and occupied it was determined that they were not in Thornwood's district. The fact was that they were not in any one's fire district. Thornwood had a problem responding to calls there and at one point stopped. There was a 10 department call list for 60-control to call and ask if the other departments would respond when there was a call in this section. They had no fire protection and the area departments would not respond. It was not their district and the were not responding on a mutual aid situation. It was a legal/liability issue.

It took a little bit of work but in the end they were put in a district and pay fire taxes to that district.

Maybe some of the old timers from that area can add to this.

If memory serves me correct; the area I think your referring to is known as Usonia Homes; a 48 home private residential section of Mount Pleasant/Pleasantville consisting of homes designed by the late Frank Lloyd Wright. Back in the 60's and early 70's Pleasantville FD used to provide fire protection "gratis" since the development was in "no man's land".

At some point the fire district became aware that their members were not covered by the districts insurance policy since Usonia was not in any fire district and for the insurance to be in full effect the department would have to be called on a Mutual Aid basis. The fire commissioners of Pleasantville met with the Usonia Homeowners Association and advised them the they could no longer provide fire protection for them unless they formed their own fire department or were able to convince an existing fire department to cover them, who could then call for mutual aid and we could then legally respond. The Usonia Homeowners Association decided that this was unsatisfactory and instead decided to sue either the Pleasantville Fire District or Town of Mt. Pleasant; I don't recall which entity they sued but it was one of them. In the meantime, there was at least one structure fire that occured in Usonia homes in which people fought the fire with garden hoses and buckets of water before they were able to find a department willing to respond to the scene. The house was heavily damaged and of course the media gave it a lot of press. Consequently there were a few brush fires that threatened nearby homes and once again the homeowners brought out their garden hoses, rakes and contained the fires.

Eventually the courts ruled against Usonia Homeowners Association stating at the time that volunteer fire departments could not be forced to respond to area's outside their district (that law may have changed between then and now) and as a result of the ruling, the Homeowners Association approached the Pleasantville Fire District and requested to be added as a fire protection district. Once the homeowners association met the requirements (installing hydrants; removing speed bumps; widening the roads and agreeing to pay fire tax), the Fire Department members voted to provide coverage and they became known as the "Usonia Fire Protection District." And as far as I know, thats how it stands today.

The only other area in Westchester County I remember that was considered to be "no man's land" was an area in Silver Lake. I'm not sure if they are in a fire district today or not.

Edited October 7, 2010 by gamewell45

[firebuff860 54]

If EMS service is inadequate, it needs to be improved. As with fire or police, a longer response time is to be expected in rural areas - that's a trade-off you make when you move there. Having NO service at all is not a trade-off that should ever exist.

That is the tradeoff they make, they live in an area where they can choose to pay or not to pay for fire service. They chose not to pay. I am sure if providing fire protection was brought up to vote in that county, nothing would change. As has been said numerous times on this thread, the homeowner made a conscious decision not to pay. You can't lay this on the feet of the FD or the county govt, it is on the home owner alone.

[ny10570 745]

Gamewell, you got the Usonia situation 100%.

Abaduck, remember the hoopla during Obama's attempt at healthcare reform? The argument from the right was that healthcare is not a right. It is a privilege. Same goes for fire protection. Hell, the guy even said it himself. He thought if he didn't pay they'd still come.