ISO Ratings and their Impact on the Fire Service

[Bnechis 3,961]

It will be interesting to see how the ISO scoring will affect some departments around here.

Well for moving from a 4 to a 9 is is a 35% increase in premiums. A few years back I calculated the cost savings for a fire district in Westchester with 1,500 homes with a value of $265,00. They had an ISO rating of 4 if it improved to a 3 each the cost savings would be $240,000 per year, so going the other way it would be $1,200,000. This was calculated based on 1998 dollars. Since the average home is now double that, consider the additional costs to be $2,400,000 per year. Thats $36,000,000 over the rating period.

Now they pay more and a lot more for commercial properties.

As an example of what it will cost (in 1998 money) a commercial occupancy: Restaurant with a $1,572,450 replacement cost

2 stories with basement, 12” thick masonry walls, wood joist floors/roof, Non-sprinklered with an Auto extinguishing system for cooking. 80% co-insurance

As an ISO 4 they would be annually paying $10,661 in fire insurance (in 1998 dollars) under this change they would be paying $16,259.

A space like New Rock City would pay an additional $200,000 per year for the structure (not including the increase in insurance each tenant pays for stock & loss of biz.).

These are just a single property add up all of them in a community. I can think of at least 15 Westchester departments that can be affected by this.

BTW its 6 responding ON-Duty firefighters, for on call (volunteers) its 18.

[JM15 386]

Well for moving from a 4 to a 9 is is a 35% increase in premiums. A few years back I calculated the cost savings for a fire district in Westchester with 1,500 homes with a value of $265,00. They had an ISO rating of 4 if it improved to a 3 each the cost savings would be $240,000 per year, so going the other way it would be $1,200,000. This was calculated based on 1998 dollars. Since the average home is now double that, consider the additional costs to be $2,400,000 per year. Thats $36,000,000 over the rating period.

Now they pay more and a lot more for commercial properties.

As an example of what it will cost (in 1998 money) a commercial occupancy: Restaurant with a $1,572,450 replacement cost

2 stories with basement, 12" thick masonry walls, wood joist floors/roof, Non-sprinklered with an Auto extinguishing system for cooking. 80% co-insurance

As an ISO 4 they would be annually paying $10,661 in fire insurance (in 1998 dollars) under this change they would be paying $16,259.

A space like New Rock City would pay an additional $200,000 per year for the structure (not including the increase in insurance each tenant pays for stock & loss of biz.).

These are just a single property add up all of them in a community. I can think of at least 15 Westchester departments that can be affected by this.

BTW its 6 responding ON-Duty firefighters, for on call (volunteers) its 18.

Do you have a link to more information about this new ISO change?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Do you have a link to more information about this new ISO change?

They have not published it yet. This summer the Director of Public Protection Classification (PPC) section of ISO presented this information to the Westchester Career Chiefs at a presentation that he and the head of Inspection services gave.

[helicopper 1,050]

Well for moving from a 4 to a 9 is is a 35% increase in premiums. A few years back I calculated the cost savings for a fire district in Westchester with 1,500 homes with a value of $265,00. They had an ISO rating of 4 if it improved to a 3 each the cost savings would be $240,000 per year, so going the other way it would be $1,200,000. This was calculated based on 1998 dollars. Since the average home is now double that, consider the additional costs to be $2,400,000 per year. Thats $36,000,000 over the rating period.

Now they pay more and a lot more for commercial properties.

As an example of what it will cost (in 1998 money) a commercial occupancy: Restaurant with a $1,572,450 replacement cost

2 stories with basement, 12" thick masonry walls, wood joist floors/roof, Non-sprinklered with an Auto extinguishing system for cooking. 80% co-insurance

As an ISO 4 they would be annually paying $10,661 in fire insurance (in 1998 dollars) under this change they would be paying $16,259.

A space like New Rock City would pay an additional $200,000 per year for the structure (not including the increase in insurance each tenant pays for stock & loss of biz.).

These are just a single property add up all of them in a community. I can think of at least 15 Westchester departments that can be affected by this.

BTW its 6 responding ON-Duty firefighters, for on call (volunteers) its 18.

A couple of questions about this ISO stuff...

Do all insurance companies apply this to all policies (homeowner and commerical)? Is it always by strictly the rating or do they group it like some other things - ratings of 1-2-3 get X and 4-9 get Y?

Are the ratings of local FD's available on-line to non-subscribers? How often are the ratings reassessed?

What is the response time criteria for the responding FF? If it is 6 on-duty and 18 on-call, how long do they have to assemble the 18. I'm not looking to start the whole 6 vs. 18 in what time frame thread again, I'm just wondering what the ISO considers in this calculation.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Do all insurance companies apply this to all policies (homeowner and commerical)? Is it always by strictly the rating or do they group it like some other things - ratings of 1-2-3 get X and 4-9 get Y?

In NYS they do based on NYS Insurance Laws (other states vary) While the rating is applied to all policies each company can assign different financials to the numbers. So one company might save much more or much less than another.

NYS allows residential ISO ratings to be grouped: PPC #1,2 &3 = A, #4, 5 & 6 = B and #7, 8, 9 & 10 =C

Are the ratings of local FD's available on-line to non-subscribers? How often are the ratings reassessed?

No they are not. ISO is funded by selling the information to the insurance industry. They are reviewed annually by servey (looking for major changes) and by inspection every 10-15 years. They are also reassessed when requested (i.e. you have made major improvements) or a major complaint is recieved (they laid off & closed the house or everyone quit...etc.)

What is the response time criteria for the responding FF? If it is 6 on-duty and 18 on-call, how long do they have to assemble the 18. I'm not looking to start the whole 6 vs. 18 in what time frame thread again, I'm just wondering what the ISO considers in this calculation.

They do not use time in there calculations, only distance (from the 1st due engine & ladder) they calculate the time based on that distance and maximum road speeds. They do not give a penalty for additional assembly time because they are requiring that many more responders (and if you do not have them then your rating goes way up).

Note the 6 vs. 18 is just what they are claiming will change. They still expect 12 onduty ff's & 1 on duty IC to respond to all fire calls or 36 and 1 on call personnel. for combo depts start with the 36 number and for each on-duty person they count as 3.

At the presentation they also ttold us they are strongly considering changing the 12 ff/1 IC to 16 ff/1 IC. To more closely match NFPA 1710. The extra personnel are for 2 man FAST & 2 man SAR. Since they are only conserned with saving property, they understand that we need to go after life (& meet 2in/2out) before we can save life. They did not say how this would affect on call personnel.

[TheNewLadder32 49]

Is the lower the ISO rating like 1-2-3 good or is it bad?

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Some of the revisions the ISO is considering.... credit for automatic mutual aid personnel responding in on structure fires and full credit recognition on automatic mutual aid plans as long as a common fireground communications channel exsits and common sog's are shared. As is the nature of the FD's in this region it may be hard to do, but for Dept.s that dont have the manpower this will be a way to upgrade your score.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Is the lower the ISO rating like 1-2-3 good or is it bad?

Yes the lower the # the better. There really is not that much of a difference % wise between the 1,2 and 3 ratings. If I recall right a 4 to a 3 or 2 is a big % jump, and of course a 9 or 8 to a 4 is a big jump. FYI there are a few volunteer Depts that have a 1 rating, very few but it can be done. None of them have a home response system, its in house crews though.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Yes the lower the # the better. There really is not that much of a difference % wise between the 1,2 and 3 ratings. If I recall right a 4 to a 3 or 2 is a big % jump, and of course a 9 or 8 to a 4 is a big jump. FYI there are a few volunteer Depts that have a 1 rating, very few but it can be done. None of them have a home response system, its in house crews though.

In NYS private residential 1,2,3 is often (butnotby all insurancecomapnaies) grouped as A, 4,5,6 is B and 7,8,9,10 is a C. so yes there is not a big % changeif you stay in your letter catagory. But for commercial properties (including multi dwellings this is not true, andthere is about an 8% change for each number change.

only 2 Volunteer Depts (Fallon NV and Dubois PA)are ISO 1 and neither has "in house" crews they respond from home.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Really, I had thought u needed an "in house" crew to be able to make a 1 rating. Interesting I stand corrected.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Really, I had thought u needed an "in house" crew to be able to make a 1 rating. Interesting I stand corrected.

If you do not have an inhouse crew then you need 36 on-call members (plus 1 IC) responding on every fire call and they all most have a substantial amount of training (more than most around here).

I know Fallon NV, claims they roll 4 rigs with 8-10 interior FF's per rig on every fire call. I figure there is not much elso to do there. Also they had better respond that heavy on the call, with the exception of Fallon NAS FD, the closest mutual aid dept is 200 miles away.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Here is a link to Fallon NV FD webpage...

http://www.churchillcounty.org/fire/aboutus.htm'>http://www.churchillcounty.org/fire/aboutus.htm

http://www.churchillcounty.org/fire/

ISO class 1 in hydrant district, ISO class 3 out of hydrant district.

They claim their average response time is less than 6 minutes.

[mfc2257 464]

If you do not have an inhouse crew then you need 36 on-call members (plus 1 IC) responding on every fire call and they all most have a substantial amount of training (more than most around here).

I know Fallon NV, claims they roll 4 rigs with 8-10 interior FF's per rig on every fire call. I figure there is not much elso to do there. Also they had better respond that heavy on the call, with the exception of Fallon NAS FD, the closest mutual aid dept is 200 miles away.

With regard to Fallon... They hired a now deceased consultant who brought many departments from lower ratings to ISO 1. In addition to the consultants work and their dedication to staffing, much of their in-town rating of ISO 1 is attributable to apparatus design... Although their rigs wouldn't work well for a typical urban department, they work very well in the middle of the Nevada desert. The core of their fleet is 2 CAFS pumper tankers, and 2 pumper tankers with 75foot tele-squirts mounted on them. In addition they have a slew of 3500 gallon tankers/tenders and standard pumpers. I'll try to post some pics.

Edited October 14, 2010 by mfc2257

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

With regard to Fallon... They hired a now deceased consultant who brought many departments from lower ratings to ISO 1. In addition to the consultants work and their dedication to staffing, much of their in-town rating of ISO 1 is attributable to apparatus design... Although their rigs wouldn't work well for a typical urban department, they work very well in the middle of the Nevada desert. The core of their fleet is 2 CAFS pumper tankers, and 2 pumper tankers with 75foot tele-squirts mounted on them. In addition they have a slew of 3500 gallon tankers/tenders and standard pumpers. I'll try to post some pics.

Directly taken from their site:

"The department runs two matching compressed air foam pumper tankers and two pumper tanker aerials, three conventional engines, three 3500 gallon tankers, a dozen tenders, a small tower ladder, a medium duty rescue, Haz Mat trailer, a dive van, and a rescue boat."

[Bnechis 3,961]

With regard to Fallon... They hired a now deceased consultant who brought many departments from lower ratings to ISO 1. In addition to the consultants work and their dedication to staffing, much of their in-town rating of ISO 1 is attributable to apparatus design... Although their rigs wouldn't work well for a typical urban department, they work very well in the middle of the Nevada desert. The core of their fleet is 2 CAFS pumper tankers, and 2 pumper tankers with 75foot tele-squirts mounted on them. In addition they have a slew of 3500 gallon tankers/tenders and standard pumpers. I'll try to post some pics.

The consultant (Larry Stevens) was a friend of mine. He lived in Fallon and he is responsable for more ISO improvements in depts around the country than anyone. He died in 2004.

There in town rating improvement had almost nothing to do with those rigs, those rigs are what got their non-hydrant area its great rating. The % improvement in the vehicles was only a few points. They scored massive points in manpower & training.

[16fire5 693]

The consultant (Larry Stevens) was a friend of mine. He lived in Fallon and he is responsable for more ISO improvements in depts around the country than anyone. He died in 2004.

I have read some material from Mr. Stevens and he seems to have undertood the ISO rating schedule better than ISO.

[Portsmouth OH Fire Buff 8]

Is there a list anywhere of ISO class ratings for every fire dept. in the country? Im curios to see where some cities rank.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Is there a list anywhere of ISO class ratings for every fire dept. in the country? Im curios to see where some cities rank.

The list is the property of ISO and they sell it to insurance companies (or anyone else) for big bucks. Thats how they pay for the service.

Every Fire Chief and every mayor, manager, supervisor and chairman of the board of fire commissioners is sent a copy of the rating for there fire dept.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Bnechis

[efdcapt115 1,511]

The list is the property of ISO and they sell it to insurance companies (or anyone else) for big bucks. Thats how they pay for the service.

Every Fire Chief and every mayor, manager, supervisor and chairman of the board of fire commissioners is sent a copy of the rating for there fire dept.

I thought for sure you had a copy under your pillow Cap!

[mfc2257 464]

The consultant (Larry Stevens) was a friend of mine. He lived in Fallon and he is responsable for more ISO improvements in depts around the country than anyone. He died in 2004.

There in town rating improvement had almost nothing to do with those rigs, those rigs are what got their non-hydrant area its great rating. The % improvement in the vehicles was only a few points. They scored massive points in manpower & training.

Thanks for the correction... I got my info second hand from some folks that worked with Larry on an ISO project down south.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

If you are a Chief officer you can check out your Dept.s ratings by going to www.isogov.com They will verify you are who you are, you will then get a password to the site once your verified.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I thought for sure you had a copy under your pillow Cap!

Nope its in the safe deposit box....its like "money in the bank"