US Sen. and US Reps Want $1,000 tax credit for Vol FF+EMS

[Guest]

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> for NY Senator Chuck Schumer and US Representatives Hinchey, Kildee, Goode, Owens, McNulty, Evans, Kennedy, Woolsey and Bishop for introducing this bill in Congress !!! It's about time !

March 22, 2005  

Schumer visits area to push tax credits for firefighters, EMTs

Greg Livadas

Staff writer

Faced with dwindling numbers of volunteer firefighters and ambulance personnel, U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., is proposing a $1,000 annual tax credit for those who serve their communities.

"A fire department that's not fully staffed puts us all at risk," Schumer said Monday afternoon at the West Brighton Fire Department. "These ladies and gentlemen are not only keeping us safe, they're keeping our taxes low."  

Under his proposal, which was introduced last week, Schumer said volunteer firefighters and ambulance personnel across the country would be eligible for the annual tax credit. That would provide an incentive to have more people volunteer, as well as a tool to keep those volunteers who have already made a commitment.  

The tax breaks would amount to millions of dollars each year. But taxpayers would end up saving money because fire stations would not be closed, have to rely on neighboring firefighters or be staffed with paid firefighters if volunteers continue to serve.  

In the past 10 years, he said there has been a 28 percent drop in volunteer firefighters.

West Brighton Fire Chief Chris Routly, whose department uses a combination of paid and volunteer firefighters, supports the plan and believes it would help recruit new volunteers.  

"Everyone would like a break on their taxes," he said.

Steve Grandusky, president of the Monroe County Volunteer Fire Chiefs Association, estimated there are more than 3,000 volunteer firefighters in Rochester and Monroe County.  

Jesse Strader, 21, and Seth Terkhorn, 20, new volunteer firefighters for West Brighton, applauded the proposal. They said the $1,000 saved in taxes could help them pay for college.  

Jennifer Maher, a paramedic for Greece Volunteer Ambulance, was pleased the bill would include volunteer ambulance personnel too, who are also needed in greater numbers.

Brighton Supervisor Sandra Frankel hoped state officials would create similar laws to give volunteers tax credits.

"This simple act can help preserve that legacy of fire services for generations to come," Schumer said.

Source: Rochester Chronicle

[Guest MFVFD785]

=D> =D> =D> WAY TO GO CHUCK

[Guest]

Everyone, I'm going to work on an e-mail that we and anyone we know can send to all 535 members of Congress to pressure them to pass this:

S 625 IS

109th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 625

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to allow a $1,000 refundable credit for individuals who are bona fide volunteer members of volunteer firefighting and emergency medical service organizations.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 15, 2005

Mr. SCHUMER introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A BILL

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to allow a $1,000 refundable credit for individuals who are bona fide volunteer members of volunteer firefighting and emergency medical service organizations.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Supporting Emergency Responders Volunteer Efforts Act of 2005' or the `SERVE Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. REFUNDABLE CREDIT FOR BONA FIDE VOLUNTEER MEMBERS OF VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING AND EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS.

(a) In General- Subpart C of part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to refundable credits) is amended by redesignating section 36 as section 37 and by inserting after section 35 the following new section:

`SEC. 36. BONA FIDE VOLUNTEER MEMBERS OF VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTING AND EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS.

`(a) In General- In the case of an individual who at any time during the taxable year is a bona fide volunteer member of a qualified volunteer fire department, there shall be allowed as a credit against the tax imposed by this subtitle the amount of $1,000.

`( Part-Year Active Members- In the case of an individual who is a bona fide volunteer member of a qualified volunteer fire department for only a portion of a taxable year, the amount of the credit under subsection (a) for such taxable year shall be an amount which bears the same ratio to $1,000 as such portion bears to the entire taxable year.

`© Definitions- For purposes of this section--

`(1) BONA FIDE VOLUNTEER MEMBER OF A QUALIFIED VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT-

`(A) IN GENERAL- An individual shall be treated as a bona fide volunteer of a qualified volunteer fire department for purposes of this section if--

`(i) the only compensation received by such individual for performing qualified services is in the form of--

`(I) reimbursement for (or a reasonable allowance for) reasonable expenses incurred in the performance of such services, or

`(II) reasonable benefits (including length of service awards), and nominal fees for such services, customarily paid by eligible employers in connection with the performance of such services by volunteers, and

`(ii) the aggregate amount of such compensation for the taxable year for providing qualified services does not exceed an amount equal to the annual limitation.

`( ANNUAL LIMITATION- For purposes of subparagraph (A), the annual limitation is an amount equal to the product of--

`(i) the minimum wage in effect under section 6(a)(1) of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (29 U.S.C. 206(a)(1)) on the first day of the calendar year beginning in the taxable year, multiplied by

`(ii) 2,080 hours.

`(2) QUALIFIED SERVICES- For purposes of this paragraph, the term `qualified services' means fire fighting and prevention services, emergency medical services, and ambulance services.

`(3) QUALIFIED VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT- The term `qualified volunteer fire department' has the meaning given such term by section 150(e).'.

( Conforming Amendments-

(1) Paragraph (2) of section 1324( of title 31, United States Code, is amended by inserting `or 36' after `section 35'.

(2) The table of sections for subpart C of part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by redesignating the item relating to section 36 as an item relating to section 37 and by inserting before the item relating to section 37 the following new item:

`Sec. 36. Bona fide volunteer members of volunteer firefighting and emergency medical service organizations.'.

© Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to taxable years beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act.

END

[Guest]

This is just another way to have low paid firefighters, ie... Tax breaks, pension plans, housing etc. I thought volunteer meant volunteer- no pay or compensation. Just a thought. Even the pension plans don't work- and why should non-active volunteers get the tax break. This is just my opinion. #-o Because everybody knows of someone who says they are a volunteer and they never respond to calls. :sad:

[Guest WolfEMT]

Because everybody knows of someone who says they are a volunteer and they never respond to calls.

They should have a minimum call requirement, like making 25% of your dept's calls, in order to qualify. However, some departments, like mine, have it set up that after 7 years of service, you are considered exempt and do not have to ride on calls. Exempt members should automatically qualify for this.

As far as receiving an incentive for "volunteer" work, I think this bill is beneficial and can give a little bit more of a push to get more volunteers. A lot of departments are in dire need of extra bodies...

[vwwh1 0]

My thoughts exactly Pbpvm. When exactly do we cross the line to paid...is there a dollar amount? and the 7 year rule, what are the requirements for the 7 years... can you coast for 7 and then be exempt?....tell me honestly...if you want to vol. then you are going to volunteer and if you don't want to you won't. This is only going to cost taxpayers more....pension plans, million dollar ladder trucks that are in no way needed, gold leaf, new buildings, tax breaks, stipends and "you better give it to us because we do it for free"...well ok so it isn't free....just hidden costs and in the end the trucks don't get out anyway...shouldn't we stop pretending... and fix the real problem...and spend money on that

[LCFD994 8]

Maybe each department would have to submit a list of active members to qualify for the tax credit, and it shouldnt be available to exempt or social members because they arent really active. Life members is another story because they hopefully put in the time already. Yeah I know this stinks for the Chiefs and Officers because it may give them more work to do, but thats why they have the gold..

Another question I have, so my wife and I should get the tax credit each because we belong to different volunteer agencies even though we file jointly ( if this passes )???????

[Guest BJM123]

Will the paid janitors hired to clean fire stations get the tax break also ? you know the ones who punch out to respond to calls.

[BIGRED1 71]

Sounds good to me.

Also the janitors would not be covered i guess. I see that who situation as they have a job and then they leave that job to go fight fires, it is just like anyone else out there who has a job and leaves when the pager goes off, only they are the closed guys to the house.

[CFD320 35]

WOW a $1000 write off........wooooooaaa, I may be able to buy a sandwich with my extra refund.

Senator Schumer (left winger) could give a s*** less about firefighters (hates our sitting Governor); he only sees a block of votes. I would be marginally impressed if he hired a volly as a staffer, or introduced legislation that would give vollys some sort of advantage when applying for a civil service job.

Please don't fool yourself into thinking Schumer is Pro anything but Schumer. He wants to be Governor; he saw how Volunteer firemen across New York came out in support of the Current x-firefighter republican governor (Pataki).

He is counting on firefighters being stereotypically "uninformed"

[Guest]

I'm amazed at the number of negative comments generated by this post.

First of all, for some, $1,000 may only buy a sandwich(??) but, for many thousands of vols NOT in the NY metro area it goes a long way to help pay their property taxes or to pay someone to watch their kid while they work.

2nd, so what if the legislation is introduced by a Democrat politician? The benefits would not discriminate based on political affiliation.

3rd, would someone tell me what is the rank of "paid janitor" ? how does this apply to the discussion?

Whether you personally like Chuck S. or not, he is trying to help volunteer responders. The same cannot be said for many others in DC who cut the Fire Grants for 2005 and reduced funding for the U.S. Fire Administration.

[Guest WolfEMT]

Well said =D>

[CAM502 6]

Also the janitors would not be covered i guess.  I see that who situation as they have a job and then they leave that job to go fight fires, it is just like anyone else out there who has a job and leaves when the pager goes off, only they are the closed guys to the house.

So why wouldn't the janitors be covered?? You said it yourself they are like all others they just work close (ok in) to the station.

[Guest squad]

Between the pensions and the government handouts how can

volunteers call themselves volunteers any more?

[DOC22 1]

I think this is a good thing. Let's face one fact that never gets mentioned here: A good amount of activities we do (Functions outside the firehouse we drive pov's to and certain other things cost money out of pocke)t, so a $1000.00 tax credit really wont add up to any volunteer emergency service personnel being a "paid firefighter. Not to mention the price of the gas we use to drive to drills, calls,etc continues to skyrocket. Furthermore this sounds to me like a good recruitment and retention tool as does the service awards program.

[x648eng119 2]

Well said DOC. How many people, especially from the northern county have taken classes down at the training center? Are you getting reembursment for your gas, food, etc. Have you ever taken time off of work to go to an FD function? This is just a nice way to give back to the "jolly" vollies.

[JohnnyOV 2]

I think that this is a great proposal by our Senator =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>. This could put an extra $1000 in my pocket in order to pay for books for college. Great idea!

[PVFD113 6]

I have to agree with the positives in this case. I think the savings here are still far below what a fully paid dept would be--even below paid chauffers(so to speak). I also agree with having requirements--more so than the average LOSAP requirements--face it we all have the same members that show up for the LOSAP requirements and very little other than that. I think it is an outstanding idea--whatever his motivation is.

We are not paid,career, whatever--we are volunteer's--many of whom are as well as or more trained than a good percentage of career FF's. I AM NOT SAYING ALL-There is definately a need for career FF's in certain areas. As long as there is a good tax base that can support it. For the most part--most towns can not. We need the volunteers!!!

=D>

[vwwh1 0]

Don't open that door....EVERY career FF MUST have 225 hrs. of training to start. Not so for a Vol. so right off the bat there is no comparison...even NYS says there is a difference. Why do they distinguish between the requirements of a career ff and only 15 hrs for a vol. and 8 hrs. a year there after. while a career ff must have 100. There is no distinguishment between a career EMT and a Vol EMT. ..same training and requirements....if all are equal then MAKE all EQUAL. and there are MANY people who are classified as Vol. FF's who actually have SEVERE learning disabilities. Is there no min. requirement to join. That is the reason that depts. claim they have 300 members. There are many depts out there that have the LOSAP and they still can't get a rig out. So the only one making money is the ins. company and a few individuals and the looser is the tax payer again. Tell the public the TRUTH. If the avg. taxpayer knew ther REAL numbers...like it might cost you another $200 a year for career ff's who would also respond to EMS calls and you wouldn't have to worry about these hidden charges...like fund drives, LOSAP, Tax breaks which now the tax payer must make up the difference, a proposal now for HEALTH CARE for Vols., Property tax breaks which again the tax payer must make up the difference, free use of the town pool which the taxpayer pays more...stipends, 3 chief cars, fuel, insurance. Trucks with gold leaf instead of stickers (just so it looks nice!). More trucks then are ever needed at what cost....and then the 1 million dollar LADDER TRUCK IN BLUE for a firehouse that doesn't fit it so now we need a new one at at cost of ?...the inspection dinner that cost 30 g's, can go on and on and on....should start another web site called the REAL TRUTH.com

If you want to do the job and are going to do the SAME job with the SAME training (because fires don't care that you are only a volunteer and don't require the same training)and do it for free with out wanting all that "special" stuff and yelling that you better give it to us because we are vol. or we will threaten you with propaganda of the HUGE cost of a hiring then more power to you. If you want to do the SAME job but for free (just like EMT's) then step right up. But stop the Lie's stop hiding the fact that the trucks don't get out, Vol's don't cost money, they are trained the same...if you feel that way then you should be offended that NYS differenciates...right? there is no difference...right?....there are vols that do take many class's...and many career who never go past the academy....so make the MIN. the SAME!!! THAT is the reason for all the vol./paid problems....they are NOT EQUAL and that is not true for the country...in many states they must ALL meet the same standards. Is the $1000 tax break a lot of money...no...but the cummulative of all the hidden costs are...don't circumvent the civil service req. which many many vol. ff's are on by hiring a person and calling them a Janitor because you need FF"s but don't want to pay them.

[Remember585 815]

VWWH1, many of the things you speak of in the previous post are truthful, despite the fact many people won't like what it says. I am sure I will strike a nerve with a few people now too, so you're in good company, ha ha.

Your comments about the training requirements in NYS are dead-on, and in that regard I agree 100%. We should all have the same level of training, paid or not, because we are only cheating ourselves if we (Vols.) think the annual 8 hour is sufficient. Training shouldn't stop when we reach our minimums (paid or not) because our environment is constantly changing, and we need to be up on it. I know volunteers with hundreds of hours of training that are great firefighters, and I also know career Firefighters with all their training that still haven't a clue. Minimal training is good, but standardized training is better.

In respect to the "benefits" us Vollies receive, I can only speak for myself when I say I think we are all getting a bit greedy. When I was growing up, my Grandfather, Father, Uncles and Cousins were all pretty much members of the Volunteer Fire Service. Not once do I remember sitting around listening to them whine about the lack of "LOSAP, Insurance, Health-Care, etc." because thats where their CAREERS came in. What they did (and still do) in their own time was/is their choice, knowing the only benefit was to be a part of the brotherhood.

It makes me sick, and I know it pisses off many others on this forum, that we now see more people coming out to everything but the actual calls to earn their "points" while others continue to do it for nothing, expecting nothing. Additionally, I think the issue of staffing is more of a problem then many of us want to address. I belong to a Department with over 165 members on the roster, excuse me, on paper. Of this number, we have a solid core of 80-90 people that answer their pagers faithfully when they can. Whenever our Department's first due apparatus arrives at your call for help, it has a minimum crew of a driver and 3 FF per SOG. Do we have a manpower problem - no, not yet anyway. Does the Volunteer Fire Service have a manpower problem, yes. It may not be the lack of members, but the lack of GOOD ONES that actually will wake up at 3 a.m. for something other then a working fire! I listen to the radio almost all day long, and I know which FD's in the WC are struggling to stay above the water. Stop saying that "we cover our calls" when only a driver is on the rig! Stop claiming "we cover our calls" when the first apparatus takes over 10 minutes to respond!

One last thing. I love being a part of the fire service, as I am sure many of you do. But we have to put aside these gripes and complaints and focus on the real issues. Too many Career Departments are operating without safe staffing numbers and minimal operating budgets. We all know this, but does the public? Too many Volunteer Departments are "running" with insufficient manpower too. But, other then us, who cares? To the public whether we're a paid or volunteer Department doesn't matter too much, we only exist in their lives for three reasons. First, when they need our services. Second, when we are blocking a road or driveway "they need to get on." And lastly, when they have to decide whether or not to give us more money. Other then these three times we are pretty much non-existent in the public's eye. We can only help ourselves if we get out there and help the public as often as we can, in a PROFESSIONAL manner. This means, in my own opinion, that every stab we take at eachother publicly, including here, only makes us look dumber and dumber. We should continue to be constructive and helpful, otherwise we are going to turn everything into a war that nobody will ever win. We must educate ourselves and our public, if we expect to survive.

[vwwh1 0]

remember...thank you so much for that reply...I only hope more of us would stand up and tell the truth...and you are VERY correct that there are some major problems with manpower in career depts. too. but like you said DOES THE PUBLIC KNOW?....we have to start telling the truth and letting the public in on the secrets we all here know about. And hiding or throwing money at these band aid, special projects is not helping to save the lives or put out the fire. You only have to look to maryland to look at places where a firefighter is a firefighter...just some are paid and some are not and there really should be a TRUE study of the fire service in westchester and its needs...fire station wise, apparatus wise, manpower and cost wise and if that means closing some companies and hiring some people and getting rid of some firehouses and building some new...that is what needs to be done....with TRUE numbers and FACTS...not on the books...and because it looks nice or say's "our name" on it. cop cars don't have gold leaf, nor cd players..etc. why are we any different...if it puts out the fire and conforms to NFPA then thats what we need. Glad to hear from you "remember". Thanks for a good dialog

[Guest]

These last few posts are 100% right on- it seems that to be a volunteer these days there has to be some kind of compensation or rewards. it still cost the taxpayer's money and they aren't getting their best bang for the buck. :-k

[PVFD113 6]

Let me first apologize for maybe mis statng my intentions. I did how ever--im all caps. say that -"I AM NOT SAYING ALL"-meaning career or volunteer. Yes I agree -minimum training standards should be equal--no doubt. There are quite a number of vol. members that have more than the career minimum hours of training.

I have to somewhat disagree with some of your statements about the money though. Full benefits are provided to career FF's--including a pension. LOSAP provides a pension-no dental, medical or anything. In addition to salary that is. Now as far as vehicles-Chief's vehicles-paid dept's have them too. Apparatus-gold leaf vs decals--well the cheesy gold leaf now is essentially cheap gold leaf looking stickers. Yes I will agree there are dept's that over due it with B.S. stuff to make it a show piece--a parade rig--which is a bunch of crap. It is still a fire truck--first and foremost. Screw the chrome--don't need it. Paid dept's have nice trucks too.

I understand what you are saying about "disabled" members on the roster. I am definately not in favor of that. You must be able to do the job or at least be at the scene and assist with the operations. .

You had valid points I apologize if I offended you.

Honestly though--can you really compare the cost of fully staffing a career dept vs. a volunteer dept with a few "perks"?

As I said before--we need career FF's--more in some area's than others. I am not pro anyone. We all have a job to do--and like it was stated earlier--fire does not care if you are career or not

[Guest]

Before this goes off on a tangent: Is there an accountant in the house who can explain this in laymans terminology.

My question is; is a refundable credit an actual amount credited to your withheld income and consequently refunded to you? ( I find this extremely hard to believe) or is it a deduction from your taxable gross income? ( meaning the 1000 credit translates to maybe a few dollars extra in your pocket after it knocks you down a bracket .)

Please correct me if I'm reading this wrong.

[PVFD113 6]

That is a damn good question

[Guest]

The tax credit would not be a refund or a pre-tax deduction.

On your 1040 federal return, after you've calculated the total tax due Uncle Sam (after deductions, etc) you would then deduct the $1,000.. This would have to show up in your "Total Tax and Credits" part of the return as a separate line item, just like an Adoption Credit .

So, it would be independent from your tax bracket or how many deductions you take. Hope this helps.

[ny10570 745]

So depending on your income you get a portion of the $1,000, kind of like secondary education deductions

[Guest]

No, it doesn't matter what your income is. You chop off $1,000. from your total federal tax after the deductions.

[firebuff860 54]

These last few posts are 100% right on-  it seems  that to be a volunteer these days there has to be some kind of compensation or rewards. it still cost the taxpayer's money and they aren't getting their best bang for the buck.  :-k

Do not want to get into a career vs. volunteer argument here, but a 1,000.00 tax credit is alot less expensive than paying for a firefighter for 20 years and then paying for his retirement benefits. If we want to discuss pros/cons of volunteer vs paid, why don't we set up a different thread.

[Oswegowind 17]

Shi?....I will take a $1000 tax credit...that is worth the while for volunteering hours of your life...I was looking forward to the property tax break and then they refuted it for our area...Although my home is in Buchanan and I don't pay that much in property taxes (thanks to Indian Point) every little bit helps...My home has many out of date items and it is very costly when replacing and updating so if I can save a "g"on my taxes that could go a long way...not to mention I have to start saving for my daughter's education...When you grow up things start to cost a lot more and if the government is willing to help those whom help the public then I am all for it...