Sliding Down The Roof

[x635 4,066]

Over the past few months, I've been watching this building go up. When they were doing the steel structure, it was an interesting shape. I don't think I've seen anything like it.

The building is nearing completion. This is what you see from the front and side:

And this is the roof. It is kind of hard to tell from the photo, but there is a significant slope to the roof. It literally looks like a very wide slide:

The roof is corragated steel over steel truss. The building will be used by the State Of Texas for various social service programs, such as Elder services. From my understanding, the road that you see is only to the construction trailer. There will not be access from the rear of the building, however I think the FD is fighting that.

Any thoughts or comments on this and how operations would be conducted? And if you were a mutual aid company and weren't familiar with the building?

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Any thoughts or comments on this and how operations would be conducted? And if you were a mutual aid company and weren't familiar with the building?

Pre-plans, pre-plans, pre-plans.

[Remember585 815]

Do a 360.

Many commercial buildings, specifically strip malls, are single story with those overhangs that give a mansard roof look. If you don't walk around back, most think the building is taller than it really is. Next thing you know, additional Trucks are being called in, yet an attic ladder will be sufficent in the rear.

As far as operating on this sloped roof - I wouldn't change much in the way of operating. Use the same tactics / SOPs you would to vent a steel roof with steel truss, the only difference is the pitch vs. your usual flat roof of this kind.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

There's an excellent article in firefighter Nation about commercial roofs. Written by Michael M. Dugan, a "33-year veteran of the fire service and a 23-year veteran of the New York City Fire Department (FDNY), currently serving as captain of Ladder Company 123 ("The Eye of The Storm" house right?) in Brooklyn. As a firefighter in Ladder Company 43 (El Bario's Bravest, Spanish Harlem) Dugan received the James Gordon Bennett medal in 1992 and the Harry M. Archer Medal in 1993, the FDNY’s highest award for bravery."

Assessing the Roof

Commercial roofs are very dangerous; some fires warrant setting up a defensive operation rather than risking members’ safety by initiating a roof ventilation. The building construction and fire conditions will most likely be the determining factors in this decision.

When considering the type of construction, ask yourself: Does the roof have a metal deck, wood, concrete or gypsum? What is the support structure and how long has it been exposed to fire? For example, if a metal roof deck has enough fire under it to warrant cutting the roof, then the building is already in the process of deteriorating.

A rule of thumb: If the building is of newer, lightweight material, and the fire conditions are moderate, roof operations are generally safe. Specifically, a moderate fire is one that’s confined to the contents of the building and not impinging on or affecting structural members of the building. Members can operate on the roof to vent natural opening, but the roof still should not be cut due to the nature of lightweight components.

If the fire conditions are heavy to severe, then the risk is not worth the reward. Specifically, a heavy fire would be one that’s attacking and weakening structural components of the building and affecting their ability to support the roof. If the fire is impinging on the ceiling of the building and the roof support, this would indicate a dangerous condition.

Special Dangers

Beware of cutting steel deck roofing. If a steel deck roof needs to be cut, the support system is most likely already compromised. A steel roof will also have an uncertain system of attachment when it comes to the sheets of steel. The metal decking will not always be supported at the seams, so if you cut it, you might be standing on an unsupported section of roof.

http://www.firefighternation.com/profiles/blogs/tips-for-venting-commercial

Hopefully the building code where this structure is located requires the building to have a sprinkler system. If so, FD is at an advantage from the start, because sprinklers have over a 90% success rate at knocking down the fire before it can grow to the point where it starts to impinge on the structural components of the roof.

I'd be really interested to do the walk-through of this building, to see how they designed the ceiling and how deep the plenum is. Wondering if it has an open floor plan, with divider walls that don't reach the roof. In that case, this could indeed be a very dangerous building. A compartment type fire would not be confined to the compartment, and would be free to grow exponentially and rapidly over the divider walls; without a sprinkler knockdown the building would be fully involved in minutes, and the roof would be twisted, melting and collapsing in less than a half hour.

Cool pictures Seth. If you happen to be passing by there again sometime, maybe you could get a sneak peak inside. That would be interesting to see the interior. Thanks for posting the pics.

[robert benz 344]

from what i can see or cant see no scuttles or skylightes no reason to be on that type of roof. I am wondering how many of the firefighters reading this would go up there with a saw and start cutting??

[xchief2x 79]

Not me Cap, safety is always first there is no reason in the world to go on that roof.

[x635 4,066]

From what I'm told, the roof will have solar panels.

[Guest Firediver]

From what I'm told, the roof will have solar panels.

As if no scuttles or skylights was reason enough not to be on that roof, solar panels too? No reason to be up there. If someone is ordered to vent this roof, where are you going to start your cut? how far apart are the trusses? 16", 24" 36", 8' on center?

Edited August 28, 2010 by Firediver

[wraftery 1,275]

The lolly columns along the rear are strangely placed in twos. If I had this bldg in my town, I would

1:Work out a preplan

2:Have companies visit the building at various stages of construction.

If there is a fire, most heat should go to the highest part of the roof. That would be the most likely vent location (from Side A), however the facade is in your way, and you probably would like to know what's holding that facade up.

[Guest Firediver]

The lolly columns along the rear are strangely placed in twos.

Chief, almost looks like one is the gutter down spout and one is a column. If you look closely you can see they are not the same size and one actually is set back(column) than the other. Its more noticeable on the ones looking right to left in the pic. Whatcha think? (not that it will make any difference about roof ops)

[wraftery 1,275]

Chief, almost looks like one is the gutter down spout and one is a column. If you look closely you can see they are not the same size and one actually is set back(column) than the other. Its more noticeable on the ones looking right to left in the pic. Whatcha think? (not that it will make any difference about roof ops)

Hard to tell. Are those escape windows for the exceptionally thin? I would watch them build it and write a preplan. Take a lot of pics and put them in your CIDS or whatever you use

[16fire5 693]

As already said there is no reason to be on this roof. Plenty of hazards the pitch, the near certainity of lightweight construction, and the proposed prencence of photovoltaic panels. UL is conducting a study funded by DHS to study the dangers to firefighters posed by photovoltaic panels. They may carry high voltage and may be very difficult to isolate power to.

http://www.ul.com/global/documents/corporate/aboutul/publications/newsletters/fire/fsa_issue_2_2010.pdf

If a firefighter did make their way to the roof with the saw and start cutting it is very easy to cut through the top flange of the steel bar joists and the spacing between joists increases the chance of a firefighter being dumped into the hole through which they are trying to cut.