Somers takes next step to upgrade EMS for it's residents

[firegui 24]

ON 8/15/10 at 0700 hours the first ambulance out the door is now staffed with paid personell. It is staffed with two EMT'S provided by Westchester EMS. This is a 24 hour 365 day a year program. The Somers Fire District realized the need for better response times for our ambulance and this is best way to accomplish the goal. I would like to say the volunteers have done an excellent job for many many years keeping ems going but due to more and more calls longer turn around times and just the economy the task just got too much to handle. The volunteers will still man the second and third ambulances which see more and more calls everyday.

[EMSer 15]

Well done Somers!

I wish to see other agencies also step away from their pride and psuedo-social clubs and to also further enhance their communities

[jack10562 414]

Providing a reliable EMS response is the district's prime concern, they realized their limited number of unpaid volunteers can only do so much, and it wasn't enough.

The dedicated volunteers who break their necks providing resources to their communities would bristle at the idea of being referred to as members of a social club.

[Alpinerunner 61]

Providing a reliable EMS response is the district's prime concern, they realized their limited number of unpaid volunteers can only do so much, and it wasn't enough.

The dedicated volunteers who break their necks providing resources to their communities would bristle at the idea of being referred to as members of a social club.

Agreed, just because they didn't have the manpower to get the job done does not mean that the volunteers were treating the house as a social club. It's good to see that Somers did what needed to be done... and I'm happy to see that they still have the volunteers manning 2nd and 3rd busses instread of shutting them down completely.

[TSull 33]

Don't you think you are going a little overboard here? They identified the problem, tried several options in attempts to rectify the problem, and have come up with this solution. Almost every place in this area has gone through growing pains. What do you think people were saying back in the 1850's when there was talk of a paid fire department in NYC? Some were for it, some were against it. Except for preplanned cities and towns down south and out west, almost every place has gone from volunteer to some sort of combination to paid. What are the taxpayers willing to support? That is the question. Everyone can ponificate about what is best and who should be doing what but it all boils down to what are the taxpayers willing to support. All taxpayers want the lowest taxes but the highest level of service. All the taxpayer wants to see is a shiny rig show up with flashing lights when they call 911. And they don't give a hoot about anyone else's call to 911. If you ever want to witness someone having a coronary, just show them on paper whar they will have to pay for an appropriatetly staffed fire department 24/7/365.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Chris192
quoted post removed as that post was removed from thread.

[Goose 188]

It's a good step that at least the first due ambulance is a guaranteed thing 24/7/365. I'm not going to say it's progressive, this is 2010. If anything it's reactionary, but its good none the less. I say reactionary because i have heard for years from friends/colleges that northern westchester has had very serious issues with getting busses out the door in a timely fashion. We may never know how many people suffered unnecessarily because of long response times and the aversion, of some, to paid solutions. But, i guess they say better late than never.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Call it like you see it???? You must be BLIND!!! The Somers Volunteer Fire Department has been dedicated to providing quality fire and ems service to the town if Somers for over 75 years!!! How long have you been volunteering??? I have over 28 years and am still going strong and there are many many other dedicated people here also. The Somers Volunteer Fire Department will respond to over 2000 calls for service both fire and ems this year. You do that many????

So you were a member back when IBM & Pepsi offered Free ALS to Somers FD and it was turned down because: "We don't want paramedics telling our firefighters and EMT's what to do" and "patients in Somers don't want paramedic service from strangers, they want their trusted nieghbors to help them in their time of need".

I was at that public meeting and that was what was stated by chiefs and commissioners when they turned down free ALS.

Yes Sommers has come a long way. Keep up the good work. Nice to see patients coming 1st.

[Guest]

Ignoring all the rest of the thread, Good for the Somers FD for taking this necessary step. It's refreshing to see a department that cares more about providing adequate service for its constituents than playing dumb to its shortcomings. There's nothing wrong with admitting you can't provide a service and doing something about it.

[firegui 24]

So you were a member back when IBM & Pepsi offered Free ALS to Somers FD and it was turned down because: "We don't want paramedics telling our firefighters and EMT's what to do" and "patients in Somers don't want paramedic service from strangers, they want their trusted nieghbors to help them in their time of need".

I was at that public meeting and that was what was stated by chiefs and commissioners when they turned down free ALS.

Yes Sommers has come a long way. Keep up the good work. Nice to see patients coming 1st.

Not only was i a member i was EMS Captain and fought with the chiefs and commissioners for it unfortunately you cannot win all the battles although i did agree with Dr. Haydock. I was also some years later the then reelected EMS Lieutenant who with my Fellow Captain who just started calling als to calls when A 1 ambulance was in Mount Kisco. Thus beginning the first ALS responses to Somers. Oh and by the way it was not Pepsi and IBM it was Empress promoted by Dr. Haydock from Northern Westchester Hospital. When Somers (with one M) said no the offer was made to YVAC who took the offer. By the way it was free for one year and then would cost the taxpayers of Somers.

Edited August 17, 2010 by firegui

[Remember585 815]

Our department spends far more hours training and answering calls then we do anything else. I will gladly show you or anyone else the numbers to back this statement.

I know from personal experience working in Somers and for Somers FD that covering EMS calls has been tough for quite some time. Like so many other big steps in emergency services, it took some time to accept the problem, research the best solution and to make a change. Good for you guys.

And, while I'm at it, props to any other agency that sees their problems and addresses them. I don't think a single one of us can argue that admitting we can't do something - whatever it is in life - is a tough pill to swallow. We're all proud of what we do and who we are, and sometimes we get blinded by our pride and it takes longer for some to admit it and ask for help.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Chris192
quoted post removed as that post was removed from thread.

[FFEMT150 214]

Coming from a person who used to sit on scene for what seemed like forever in somers, I applaud SFD for finding a solution to the problem and salute those members who were dedicated to helping their community. The problem was not that they are a "social club", the issue was a lack of persons willing to respond to so many calls for free! The SFD is a volunteer agency with a HUGE call volume, resulting in what i refer to as "volly burn out". As far as their professionalism goes, TOP NOTCH! Hats off to somers for taking a step in the right direction and doing something for the right reason, THEIR COMMUNITY!

@Somers FD...Best of luck in your newest endevour!

Edited August 17, 2010 by Chris192
Comment directed at another member removed.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Oh and by the way it was not Pepsi and IBM it was Empress promoted by Dr. Haydock from Northern Westchester Hospital. When Somers (with one M) said no the offer was made to YVAC who took the offer. By the way it was free for one year and then would cost the taxpayers of Somers.

The public hearing that the board of fire commissioners (BOFC) held never discused empress or any other agency, but they made it very clear that Pepsi & IBM wanted ALS response to there corp. buildings and they would pay for one year to prove it was a valid concept. The reason they were willing to pay is prior to there proposal the BOFC said the district could not afford it. Once it was free they came out with the "we dont want paramedics telling our FF's and EMT's what to do". This was about 5 years before the YVAC deal. I had never heard about that deal, could it have been a seperate attempt?

Yes it was free for one year to determine if it would work. There are other ways like thru billing to pay for it. But the BOFC could bring that to the voters who could determine if there lives are worth a couple of extra bucks (in 1980's dollars).

[GAW6 66]

There are other ways like thru billing to pay for it.

Fire Districts in the State of New York cannot bill. There is currently a bill in to the State Legislators to change that.

[Goose 188]

Coming from a person who used to sit on scene for what seemed like forever in somers, I applaud SFD for finding a solution to the problem and salute those members who were dedicated to helping their community. The problem was not that they are a "social club", the issue was a lack of persons willing to respond to so many calls for free! The SFD is a volunteer agency with a HUGE call volume, resulting in what i refer to as "volly burn out". As far as their professionalism goes, TOP NOTCH! Hats off to somers for taking a step in the right direction and doing something for the right reason, THEIR COMMUNITY!

@Somers FD...Best of luck in your newest endevour!

I don't understand that. You're not willing to respond to emergencies for free? Isn't that what a volunteer signs up to do?

[GAW6 66]

I don't understand that. You're not willing to respond to emergencies for free? Isn't that what a volunteer signs up to do?

That was a totally uncalled for statement. There are still many volunteers out there who are extremely dedicated. Unfortunately, due to larger call volumes, those "handfuls" of volunteers who are willing to drop anything and run to a call cannot do it all themselves. Whether you are a volunteer or not, you still have work, family, and personal committments.

Yes, a true volunteer does it from the heart and does not expect anything in return. You totally missed the point here and just used it as a chance to criticize volunteers.

[Danger 160]

That was a totally uncalled for statement. There are still many volunteers out there who are extremely dedicated. Unfortunately, due to larger call volumes, those "handfuls" of volunteers who are willing to drop anything and run to a call cannot do it all themselves. Whether you are a volunteer or not, you still have work, family, and personal committments.

Yes, a true volunteer does it from the heart and does not expect anything in return. You totally missed the point here and just used it as a chance to criticize volunteers.

No, actually if you can't handle it all for "free" then you can no longer sufficiently volunteer, it wasn't "uncalled for." This is when volunteer departments become paid departments, it's not an insult to the volunteers, it's just change and progression. Happens every year around the country.

[jack10562 414]

Are we reading the same post? You completely missed GAW6's point. In addition to addressing a snide remark, she agrees some agencies can become so overwhelmed they can no longer keep up with the call volume with their limited volunteer staff.

These are circumstances where a paid response becomes an inevitable solution .

[Bnechis 3,961]

Fire Districts in the State of New York cannot bill. There is currently a bill in to the State Legislators to change that.

Except if its an outside contracted service like an ALS provider.

The current bill has been introduced every year for the last 20+ its needed, but NYS legislature has been unwilling to pass it

[firegui 24]

Except if its an outside contracted service like an ALS provider.

The current bill has been introduced every year for the last 20+ its needed, but NYS legislature has been unwilling to pass it

Fire Disricts Cannot sign a contract for outside ALS either per our attorney thats why the ALS contract is signed for by the town

[Goose 188]

That was a totally uncalled for statement. There are still many volunteers out there who are extremely dedicated. Unfortunately, due to larger call volumes, those "handfuls" of volunteers who are willing to drop anything and run to a call cannot do it all themselves. Whether you are a volunteer or not, you still have work, family, and personal committments.

Yes, a true volunteer does it from the heart and does not expect anything in return. You totally missed the point here and just used it as a chance to criticize volunteers.

Are we reading the same post? You completely missed GAW6's point. In addition to addressing a snide remark, she agrees some agencies can become so overwhelmed they can no longer keep up with the call volume with their limited volunteer staff.

These are circumstances where a paid response becomes an inevitable solution.

I think everyone needs to take their fingers off the hair triggers here. Nothing was snide or inflammatory about my question.

The problem was not that they are a "social club", the issue was a lack of persons willing to respond to so many calls for free!

That's what was said.

I don't understand that. You're not willing to respond to emergencies for free? Isn't that what a volunteer signs up to do?

This was my question in response to the above.

Simple, straight forward, cut and dry. The statement doesn't make sense and if anything it reflects poorly on volunteers. Look, I get out the door in a timely fashion (granted i draw a paycheck), so none of this is really my problem, but for discussion sake i just don't understand how a volunteer could say something like that. If members of a volunteer organization are not willing to respond to runs because they are too frequent or because they are not getting compensated then it seems to me that it all boils down to being a social club - i'm talking generally, not about any one organization.

I would think that those who take the time and effort to do the best they can would be a bit taken back by such a statement - or at least call for clarification. I know it made me read it twice...

Edited August 17, 2010 by Goose

[Faded Soul 6]

Okay great move for Somers. I personally don't think they should hire or contract out....... wouldn't it have been less expensive hiring from within?

Re: the social club remark.... yea most places and most people in those places view it as a place to hang out and maybe do a call to inflate their lives with meaning and ego. Those of us that do it with the truest intentions in our hearts are labeled as outcasts and black balled for apparently being so good natured. Although when stuffing hits the fan we are all just one big happy family but outside of that every " in crowd" has every one back in the " in crowd". Dang shame that we can't have our fellow emt and firefighters back no matter the clique or belief they have for helping another human being in a bad situation.

[x635 4,066]

This is a great move by Somers, and long needed.

As far as hiring from within, it is way cheaper to (at least start out) with a contracted service who has everything already set up. It takes a lot to start a paid ambulance service

Anyone trying to dissect this to something it's not and twisting around words to try and further their anti-EMS agenda and distaste for volunteers needs to stop. It's WAY out of line. Those familiar with Somers know that EMS calls are frequent, and Somers has grown to the point where you can only expect so much from volunteers, especially with the way Heritage Hills pumps out calls (yes, a dedicated ambulance to Heritage Hills has been talked about). The volunteers have personal lives too. Some people who "draw a paycheck" from a paid agency needs to do their homework and see how their agency evolved.

And, regardless about how I feel about SOME volunteer issues, these people still sacrifice their time to help their communities and fellow citizens. I've personally seen volunteers go for 16 hours straight in Somers running EMS calls, and putting aside other functions.

firegui, thanks for posting this news. Best of luck to both agencies!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Fire Disricts Cannot sign a contract for outside ALS either per our attorney thats why the ALS contract is signed for by the town

I know of a couple of districts that have. I do not know if its legit or not but it is done and those depts have been audited by the NYS Comptroler and still contract. I believe Fairview (Dutchess)Fire District was considering this.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

No, actually if you can't handle it all for "free" then you can no longer sufficiently volunteer, it wasn't "uncalled for." This is when volunteer departments become paid departments, it's not an insult to the volunteers, it's just change and progression. Happens every year around the country.

No, actually, thats when they become a COMBINATION Dept., WITH VOLUNTEERS...happens every year around the country, this scenario happens more then going ALL PAID, espiecially with a busy Dept. like a Somers. If I read right Somers FD is going to handle the 2nd or 3rd ambulance calls...I dont see how this is not sufficiently dealing with the problem.

Most BUSY all volunteer Depts run EMS calls, as the primary agency, with this being the bulk of the alarms. That said this part of the service is usually the most taxing on an agency and it's people. 1 ambulance call can take almost an hour or more in some cases. Then you add a second or 3rd alarm, and the people that responded to the first call are out for 3 hours. It's usually the same day crew people and this "2 for" or "3 for" happens many times a week. It's not about "not willing" to do the calls, it's what is practical for someone, especially in a home response system. The options are in house duty crews or have a paid crew.

Unlike the fire calls where you may be on a run for a 1/2 hour or less for most of the bells and smells calls, and be at the "worker" that may take 2-3 hours 2 times a month. The bulk of the work is EMS which equals alot of time, the days of the "scoop" and run ambulance are over. Thats the facts.

Volunteers can still do the fire duty but the EMS part is what is a stress to the angency.

Having the paid crew and a volunteer crew can off set each other. Works fine elsewhere.

Edited August 18, 2010 by spin_the_wheel

[Beekman 5]

The law prohibiting Fire Districts from contracting with an ambulance company was repealed several years ago. The NYS Association of Fire Districts attorney can cite the exact section. Beekman had to verify the change when the contract was transferred from the Town of Beekman to the Beekman Fire District. Union Vale Fire District was one of the first to contract directly with the EMS provider. I heard several other in Dutchess County are considering the same when the contracts get ready to expire.

[Alpinerunner 61]

I don't understand that. You're not willing to respond to emergencies for free? Isn't that what a volunteer signs up to do?

I know you tried to explain this statement in a subsequent post, but you're missing FFEMT150's point competely.

He is not saying that the volunteers signed up to volunteer, but now want paychecks. He is saying there aren't enough people in the community that want to volunteer, so it becomes impossible for the EXISTING volunteers to make all the calls... hense the need for career EMTs.

Career members aren't expected to make all of the calls in their district, and neither are volunteers. A volunteers system's strength is in numbers. A career FF (and probably EMT) usually makes 25% of the total calls in their district. I know many volunteers that make 40-60% of the total calls in their district in an effort to pick up the slack from the lack of NUMBERS of volunteers.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Alpinerunner

[Ladder44 73]

How much is somers FD paying for this 24hr 356day type of service???

[helicopper 1,050]

Okay great move for Somers. I personally don't think they should hire or contract out....... wouldn't it have been less expensive hiring from within?

It is probably NOT cheaper to hire from within. Hiring from within requires administrative and supervisory overhead costs, civil service testing and hiring issues (if applicable - I believe Somers is a fire district so they could be civil service), medical and other benefits, salaries, training, uniform, initial, on-going, and in-service training.

Then there's the issue of the selection process and since you're certainly not going to take everyone somebody will get their feelings hurt. To staff one ambulance 24/7/365 with full-time employees you'll probably need about 10 people. On a part-time basis you'll need even more people and a great deal more supervision/administration.

WIth a contracted service providing the personnel, you only have to pay for the people working (their rate of pay charged may be hire than you'd have to pay - and higher than the rate of pay the EMT's receive) but that covers the adminstrative costs the contractor incurs.

[Ladder44 73]

Are there any ems staffing agencys in the westchester/putnam/CT area???

[WAS967 97]

That aren't ambulance agencies? I believe there is one in CT that provides EMTs and Paramedics for areas outside Danbury (specifically Brookfield) called VinTech. Not sure if there are any in NY.