5-Inch Hose on Supply Engine

[Rescue85 4]

My company just received from the department the supply engine (Mid 90's pumper). Was originally set up as the LDH engine. 1500 GPM pump with 5-Inch discharge on the right side + rear. Also have front + rear suction.

My question is how much 5-Inch hose do you carry on your supply engines & how much would be an adequate amount??

[Bnechis 3,961]

My company just received from the department the supply engine (Mid 90's pumper). Was originally set up as the LDH engine. 1500 GPM pump with 5-Inch discharge on the right side + rear. Also have front + rear suction.

My question is how much 5-Inch hose do you carry on your supply engines & how much would be an adequate amount??

Enough to get from the water supply to the fire (or the other way round for you reverse layers)

I know depts with 750 feet and others with 5,000 feet.

Also with a hose wagon would you consider 2 lays?

[38ff 250]

All of our pumpers have 2,000 feet of LDH, and 1,500 GPM pumps. Only about 25% of our district has hydrants.

[JetPhoto 626]

First find how much 5" hose the apparatus can safely carry.

Second look at your district do you have a lot of hydrants and the areas you don't, how much hose will it take you to get from your water source to your apparatus

[FFEMT150 214]

My department carries about 750 feet on our first due and tower ladder, the MA engine carries about 1500 feet. Think the last time we dumped more than 500 feet was for hose testing.

[aacofd40 6]

My department carries about 750 feet on our first due and tower ladder, the MA engine carries about 1500 feet. Think the last time we dumped more than 500 feet was for hose testing.

We carry 1000 ft. That is the easy part. The hard part is all the appliances to link with our automatic aid partners that use 3inch supply lines as well as other units in the county that have moved from 5inch to 4inch.

Be safe,

JR

[FFEMTPD72 2]

EFFD's hose truck (39-81) carries 5000 feet of 5'.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The hard part is all the appliances to link with our automatic aid partners that use 3inch supply lines as well as other units in the county that have moved from 5inch to 4inch.

So some depts there are 30 years behind and others are trying to go backwards. Let me guess the depts. that went back to 4" buy 1,500 gpm pumps.

[sfrd18 360]

Stamford, CT runs a hose wagon(a converted spare engine) out of their Fire Headquarters. It is cross-staffed by the members of and usually runs with Stamford's Engine 1 to confirmed workers or when called upon in the Northern-most sections of the city, where water supply is very limited and hydrants are far and few in between, thus the need for a hose wagon. The wagon itself carries 4,800' of 5" LDH. However, all of the engines in Stamford's northern most volunteer fire district, Long Ridge FD, each carry 2,000' of 5" LDH, in addition to between 1,000 and 2,000 gallon water tanks.

[Remember585 815]

3 Engines - About 1,500 feet of 5" on all three.

1 Quint - 800 feet of 5".

Adapters to work with neighbors who have 3" and 4".

[Guest]

2 Engines 2000 ft. each with 1500 gpm pumps , 1 Tanker 1000 ft. and 2000 gpm pump. Half of district is not covered by hydrants.

[FF162 1]

Three (3) engines, 1750 pumps, 2000 feet 5 inch hose on each. 5 inch discaharge on right side; plus additional 5 inch fittings to supply additional lines if neccessary, including a siameze 5 inch fitting to maximize flow at lower RPM's.

[ajsbear 11]

First to consider, do you have hydrants? what is the distance between? No hydrants then what is the average driveway length? Most of our district is non hydrant and we lay in from the beginning of the driveways. Then the source engine hooks up. Some driveways are longer then 1,500 feet. How many feet was the engine designed to carry?

[Bnechis 3,961]

including a siameze 5 inch fitting to maximize flow at lower RPM's.

Can you explain this statement

[wraftery 1,275]

So some depts there are 30 years behind and others are trying to go backwards. Let me guess the depts. that went back to 4" buy 1,500 gpm pumps.

30 years??? National standard hose couplings came out around 1904 and we are still trying to get THAT to work.

Edited August 9, 2010 by wraftery

[Bnechis 3,961]

30 years??? National standard hose couplings came out around 1904 and we are still trying to get THAT to work.

And storz connections were patented in 1894, so who great idea was National Standard?

Why did National Standard Tread come into being? Its because when FDNY arrived in Baltimore for the "Great Fire" they could not hook up. So a group in a room decided everyone in the country should go to a single thread size. Whose size did they pick? It was not FDNY's. Now they want NYC to change every hydrant, every hose coupling and every pump outlet so that mutual aid can work in NYS. That mutual aid was not called for 97 years. Who would have to pay the costs?

[Remember585 815]

Now they want NYC to change every hydrant, every hose coupling and every pump outlet so that mutual aid can work in NYS. That mutual aid was not called for 97 years. Who would have to pay the costs?

Governor Patterson's soda tax.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

A lot of great points brought here, glad I popped in to read it. Another thing you can do also is to look at your past incidents to see how much hose was needed on average for the operation at hand. The thing to remember is the more hose you also carry (some carry for the doomsday event instead of what they actually tend to do) the more you have to maintain test etc. The nicest thing about hose thread (in most areas) and particularly storz if you need more...you can get it from other apparatus as well.

Also interested in hearing about the 5" siamese thing.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Three (3) engines, 1750 pumps, 2000 feet 5 inch hose on each. 5 inch discaharge on right side; plus additional 5 inch fittings to supply additional lines if neccessary, including a siameze 5 inch fitting to maximize flow at lower RPM's.

Would that be using a 5 inch Siamese supplied by two 3 inch lines, if a large diameter discharge is unavailable, versus an adapter off a single discharge to 5 inch (a 2 1/2 inch to 5 inch adapter) that is almost impossible to supply.

[wraftery 1,275]

And storz connections were patented in 1894, so who great idea was National Standard?

Why did National Standard Tread come into being? Its because when FDNY arrived in Baltimore for the "Great Fire" they could not hook up. So a group in a room decided everyone in the country should go to a single thread size. Whose size did they pick? It was not FDNY's. Now they want NYC to change every hydrant, every hose coupling and every pump outlet so that mutual aid can work in NYS. That mutual aid was not called for 97 years. Who would have to pay the costs?

I believe that's the birth of NFPA. They're still costing us all a lot of money. Some for good reasons,some for no good reason.

If you don't have NST, buy adapters to give to your mutual aid companies.

If you remove the elbows, etc from your rig's intakes/discharges, you should find NST at the pump.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I believe that's the birth of NFPA. They're still costing us all a lot of money. Some for good reasons,some for no good reason.........If you remove the elbows, etc from your rig's intakes/discharges, you should find NST at the pump.

Here is one of those NFPA some good some bad ideas. If its on a 2 1/2" discharge, then having NST behind your elbows is a good way to go. But what about on other outlets? All pump plumbing starts as NPT (national pipe thread) & is then converted to NST and then to your thread (if not NST). Our last engine has 2 LDH outlets (5" Storz) we wanted the 4" discharge pipes NPT to attach directly to a 4" NPT to 5" Storz elbow. The manufacturer would not do this, because "NFPA requires NST" so we recieved a 4" NPT with a NPT to NST adaptor to a 4"NST to 5" Storz elbow. This creates a weaker system, that sticks out beyound the vehicle (increasing the likelyhood for serious damage), for more money. The manufacturer advises if we want the other we can buy 2 more elbows and set it up ourselves, then keep the 2 extra addaptors & 2 extra elbows.

So we have the versatility of 4" NST. Does anyone use 4" NST? We are ready for you.

If you don't have NST, buy adapters to give to your mutual aid companies.

Agreed, but also if in a region 80% of the hydrants & threads are not NST, then make sure you have those threads, or stay home.

[Danger 160]

Now they want NYC to change every hydrant, every hose coupling and every pump outlet\

Not to mention every FDC, which in NYC is probably in the tens of thousands. Still, NYC is one case, there are many smaller cities that use a unique thread also. Utica, NY comes to mind

[FF162 1]

<P>That would be two 5" lines into a 5" siameze.  One would be set up off the 4"NSTX5" STORZ fitting on the right sideof the engine and a 2 1/2"NSTX5" STORZ off the left side.  We have delivered over 1800 gallons, 2,600 feet off a really good 16" water main.  NO Relay pumper and slightly up hill.  Used a whole bunch of fuel!</P>

[Bnechis 3,961]

<P>That would be two 5" lines into a 5" siameze.  One would be set up off the 4"NSTX5" STORZ fitting on the right sideof the engine and a 2 1/2"NSTX5" STORZ off the left side.  We have delivered over 1800 gallons, 2,600 feet off a really good 16" water main.  NO Relay pumper and slightly up hill.  Used a whole bunch of fuel!</P>

1) could you clean this up a little, it reads like russian.

2) You moved 1,800 gpm through 5" hose? What brand? Dacron Hose or Rubber? What was the maximum pressure?

[FF162 1]

1) could you clean this up a little, it reads like russian.

2) You moved 1,800 gpm through 5" hose? What brand? Dacron Hose or Rubber? What was the maximum pressure?

Two one hundred foot five inch lines into a five inch siameze with one five inch line to the recieving pumper. Hose is Angus. Pressure was way over normal operating pressure. Evolution may have qualified for a hose test, if you know what I mean. Using the siameze cut the RPM's on the engine to just under 1800. Flow meters showed 900 gallons+ on each line.

Was supposed to read: - "That would be two 5" lines into a 5" siameze; One would be set up off the 4"NSTX5" STORZ fitting on the right sideof the engine and a 2 1/2"NSTX5" STORZ off the left side. We have delivered over 1800 gallons, 2,600 feet off a really good 16" water main. NO Relay pumper and slightly up hill. Used a whole bunch of fuel!" (hope that cleaned up the Russian.)

[antiquefirelt 994]

...including a siameze 5 inch fitting to maximize flow at lower RPM's.

I'm gonna take a stab and guess you'[re speaking of a LDH four-way valve to bring a pumper inline during the operation to boost the flow? They're very similar to the Hydrassist valve, in that water can be flowing and you can connect in and re-route the supply though the pump to increase the pressure.

Whoops, didn't read far enough. But in any event, these valves are ideal for very long lays.

Edited August 10, 2010 by antiquefirelt

[Bnechis 3,961]

Two one hundred foot five inch lines into a five inch siameze with one five inch line to the recieving pumper. Hose is Angus. Pressure was way over normal operating pressure. Evolution may have qualified for a hose test, if you know what I mean. Using the siameze cut the RPM's on the engine to just under 1800. Flow meters showed 900 gallons+ on each line.

Normal operatiing pressure is 185psi. Some depts test at 200psi others at 250psi (Angus list the test pressure at 200psi). Angus claims that at normal operating pressures 5" hose max's out at about 1,500gpm. All the tables I find show a 1,500gpm pump capacity with 5" LDH will get you 1,500 gpm to about 900 feet. A 2,000 gpm pump will get you another 300 feet.

Generally when calculating delivery its measured at the recieving end, not the source pump. I suggest you check your flow meters, because your numbers are not what they should be.

Was supposed to read: - "That would be two 5" lines into a 5" siameze; One would be set up off the 4"NSTX5" STORZ fitting on the right sideof the engine and a 2 1/2"NSTX5" STORZ off the left side. We have delivered over 1800 gallons, 2,600 feet off a really good 16" water main. NO Relay pumper and slightly up hill. Used a whole bunch of fuel!" (hope that cleaned up the Russian.)

Yes it did. Thank you comrade

Edited August 10, 2010 by Bnechis

[ny10570 745]

versus an adapter off a single discharge to 5 inch (a 2 1/2 inch to 5 inch adapter) that is almost impossible to supply.

You just have to fill half of the hose with wishes like "I wish the best pump in the dept wasn't on the oldest functioning truck and without a large diameter discharge." Ah the good ol' days.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

2 attack pumps [ one for each house] carries 1000' of 5".

1 tanker pump carries 1000'.

2 supply engines use to carry 2000' each, but because of age/weight/practical purposes we lowered each load to 1500'. each carries a variety of LDH appliances. [one for each house].

1 tower ladder with 1000'.

Edited August 10, 2010 by CHIEFPHIL

[wraftery 1,275]

The NFPA is really a level of government without a constitution or bill of rights. A few people sit down and make up a "standard" and POOF...a year later, it is cited like the law of the land, and everybody must fall in line.

Think about it. How did something like a rope get an expiration date? The committee said "Oh, I dunnow let's make it 20 years" but the rope manufacturer is on the committee so it becomes 10 years. He has to sell rope,you know. After that it becomes a utility rope (still strong as ever). And so on and so on.